Poll: Where Are All The English Concertinas Today, In England?

[Ptarmigan]

Hello,

 

Here is a POLL for players of the English Concertina, who are living in England!

 

Following on from my Question of Statistics thread, I am now wondering if a short Poll might help to give us a better picture of where most of the English Concertinas & their players are in England, today, plus a few more interesting details thrown in.

 

If this subject interests you, please feel free to throw any more info into the pot.

 

Cheers

Dick

Edited October 23, 2008 by Ptarmigan

[JimLucas]

Here is a POLL for players of the English Concertina, who are living in England!

Well, that excludes me. Why only England?

 

Just as well, though. I don't hold with "mostly". It implies a kind of hierarchy, an absolute preference or dominance. I believe in equal opportunity, even among my instruments.

 

Following on from my Question of Statistics thread, I am now wondering if a short Poll might help to give us a better picture of where most of the English Concertinas & their players are in England,...

It can give a "picture", but it gives no way to determine how "representative" that picture might or might not be. In spite of all the concertina players on Concertina.net, past experience indicates that very few will actually answer your poll, and there are far more players who are not members, even in England.

 

If this subject interests you, please feel free to throw any more info into the pot.

Well, what interests me here is the gathering of "statistics" from which no worthwhile conclusions can validly be drawn. You seem to have an enthusiasm for doing so, and I'm curious as to what motivates you. Do you really believe that the answers to your poll will add to (y)our understanding of how (English) concertinas fit into the world England?

 

It's not that I think that polls per se are useless, but that one must be very cautious about drawing "conclusions" from them. One should also be extremely careful in designing polls, so that the choice and wording of the questions or allowed answers don't themselves manipulate the results or conclusions. Including "other" or "none of the above" is one step along the right road, but there are also more subtle traps. E.g., you have constructed separate categories for the Jackie and Geuns-Wakker, but not for cheapest model Lachenals or Wheatstones vs. Edeophones and Æolas. And you have a "Jeffries" category -- though I believe the known Jeffries Englishes can be counted on the fingers of one hand, -- yet none for Rock Chidley, Joseph Scates, etc.

 

Polls can be fine, and polls can be fun, but one should be very wary of characterising the results as meaningful "statistics".

[Henk van Aalten]

Here is a POLL for players of the English Concertina, who are living in England!

 

Dick,

 

I just noticed that I (not living in England [same as UK??] and not playing EC) can fill in the poll. It's even worse anyone can click all the boxes. So.. how about the reliability of your poll

[JimLucas]

I just noticed that I (not living in England [same as UK??] and not playing EC) can fill in the poll. It's even worse anyone can click all the boxes. So.. how about the reliability of your poll

That is an unfortunate (IMO) characteristic of the polling mechanism in these forums. It's too simple to provide means for collecting complex data. E.g., there is no way to couple the responses to different questions, in order to determine whether (e.g.) Jones players are concentrated in East Anglia, or whether they play mostly Welsh music.

[John Wild]

not living in England [same as UK??]

 

The U.K. includes Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

[Ptarmigan]

Why only England?

 

Simply because A - I have never travelled around English sessions or festivals, so I'm curious to get an impression of just how common they are, at those events.

 

&

 

B - as the home of the instrument, I just wonder about it's spread in it's homeland. e.g. Is it widespread throughout, or is it's distribution patchy.

 

It can give a "picture", but it gives no way to determine how "representative" that picture might or might not be. In spite of all the concertina players on Concertina.net, past experience indicates that very few will actually answer your poll, and there are far more players who are not members, even in England.

 

Hey, I'm not planning to publish my findings here! I know these Polls are far from being an exact science, in fact that's why I mentioned the word statistics here or in my last thread, because we all know how unreliable ALL statistics are!

 

As I am totally ignorant of the English scene, I'm just looking for general impressions, that's all, so it doesn't matter that only a few folk will respond.

If I get a few interesting & helpful answers from a few friendly members of this site, I'll be quite happy.

 

Well, what interests me here is the gathering of "statistics" from which no worthwhile conclusions can validly be drawn. You seem to have an enthusiasm for doing so, and I'm curious as to what motivates you. Do you really believe that the answers to your poll will add to (y)our understanding of how (English) concertinas fit into the world England?

 

See my last answer, above.

All that motivates me is curiosity, honest, I have no sinister motives.

I reckon my poll might just stimulate a few interesting replies, I don't think I have a right to expect any more than just that, on a forum like this.

 

It's not that I think that polls per se are useless, but that one must be very cautious about drawing "conclusions" from them. One should also be extremely careful in designing polls, so that the choice and wording of the questions or allowed answers don't themselves manipulate the results or conclusions. Including "other" or "none of the above" is one step along the right road, but there are also more subtle traps. E.g., you have constructed separate categories for the Jackie and Geuns-Wakker, but not for cheapest model Lachenals or Wheatstones vs. Edeophones and Æolas. And you have a "Jeffries" category -- though I believe the known Jeffries Englishes can be counted on the fingers of one hand, -- yet none for Rock Chidley, Joseph Scates, etc.

 

Polls can be fine, and polls can be fun, but one should be very wary of characterising the results as meaningful "statistics".

 

I think you are perhaps reading far, far too much into what is, after all, just a bit of a chat. I only expect a tiny % of all the active members to even bother checking this thread out, never mind responding to it, so of course none of the information it will contain will be worth a Pig's Ear.

We're only kicking a ball around the yard here, so folks who don't want to kick the ball, go off & do their own thing. It's as simple as that really.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Ptarmigan]

Here is a POLL for players of the English Concertina, who are living in England!

 

Dick,

 

I just noticed that I (not living in England [same as UK??] and not playing EC) can fill in the poll. It's even worse anyone can click all the boxes. So.. how about the reliability of your poll

 

Henk, I know you are an honest man & wouldn't cheat! At least that's what you told me!!!

 

Anyway, never fear, this poll has not been posted by a government agency, who are going to insist that everyone here fills it out correctly .... or else!!!!

 

It's just a light hearted bunch of questions. If you want to answer all the questions, carry on. I can assure you that if you do, the World will not stop spinning!

Nor will I have a sleepless night or go out & find a Cat to Kick!

 

It's like any other thread really, we post them & trust, or hope, that a few members will be interested enough to bung us an answer or two.

Most will of course just dander on by.

 

e.g. I don't imagine many, if any, of the Anglo enthusiasts will even bother reading all of it's title, never mind read the thread or poll, so how could the Poll have any real meaning, in the state of the Universe at large! Given that quite a few Anglo players also own E.C.s too.

 

Incidentally, here's another flaw for you. Because I do not live in England & so can't answer my own poll, I am not able to see whether anyone has in fact responded!

 

But like I said, it's not serious.

 

Cheers

Dick

Edited October 23, 2008 by Ptarmigan

[Ptarmigan]

I just noticed that I (not living in England [same as UK??] and not playing EC) can fill in the poll. It's even worse anyone can click all the boxes. So.. how about the reliability of your poll

That is an unfortunate (IMO) characteristic of the polling mechanism in these forums. It's too simple to provide means for collecting complex data. E.g., there is no way to couple the responses to different questions, in order to determine whether (e.g.) Jones players are concentrated in East Anglia, or whether they play mostly Welsh music.

 

Given that these forums are really just chat rooms, I really don't think we should be expecting too much from the polls.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Ptarmigan]

not living in England [same as UK??]

 

The U.K. includes Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland.

 

Aye John, it does just now ..... but for how long?

 

 

[Stiamh]

Incidentally, here's another flaw for you. Because I do not live in England & so can't answer my own poll, I am not able to see whether anyone has in fact responded!

 

Can you not see a "Show results" button? I haven't voted either but am able to see the results.

 

I am the guardian of a vintage EC that is with a maker pending an estimate for restoration but judging by the months that have gone by without even an estimate coming forth, I'm not expecting to get my hands on it any time soon...

[Dieppe]

Which part of the poll includes the "Colonies" part of the UK?

 

I guess technically I'm in the part that was Spanish Colonies and missions...

[Ptarmigan]

Which part of the poll includes the "Colonies" part of the UK?

 

I guess technically I'm in the part that was Spanish Colonies and missions...

 

Ah, so your on the Isle of White then, are you.

 

Of course, I'm in the Colonies too ..... Northern Ireland!

[Ptarmigan]

Which part of the poll includes the "Colonies" part of the UK?

 

I guess technically I'm in the part that was Spanish Colonies and missions...

 

Ah, so your on the Isle of Wight then, are you?

 

Of course, I'm in the Colonies too .... Northern Ireland!

[Ptarmigan]

Well, I guess the poll didn't turn up any real surprises.

 

* .... Most folks seem to own one or two, which makes good sense I suppose .. any more & can you really do them ALL justice?

 

It's interesting to see that there appears to be a pretty even spread throughout the country.

Reminds me that years ago, such a poll of Ireland would probably have shown that most were in around one county ... Clare.

 

* .... It's also great to see that most appear to be playing English music, fair play.

 

Years ago, such a poll in Scotland might have shown that most pub sessions were of Irish music, but not any more, with, from what I hear, you hear mostly Scottish music at sessions up there now.

 

* .... Interesting too, to see that the music readers are almost as numerous as the ear players. I think you would find a much greater percentage of Irish players would learn their tunes by ear.

 

* .... From the number of years people have been playing, can we perhaps conclude that Concertina playing in England is just as popular as ever?

 

* .... Would it also be fair to say that the Wheatstone was the preferred weapon of choice?

 

I'm rather surprised though, to see that it looks like the Wheatstone might be twice as numerous/popular as the Lachenal. Maybe I shouldn't be.

 

I wonder, did anyone else here, draw their own conclusions from any of the results?

 

YES, YES, I know this poll was highly unscientific, enethical, unreliable & a few other uns ... besides, but just maybe, it helps to indicate current trends .............. or maybe not.

 

Well anyway, I enjoyed reading the results, so thanks to all who joined in what, after all, was just a bit of fun.

 

Cheers

Dick

[Pete Dunk]

* .... Most folks seem to own one or two, which makes good sense I suppose .. any more & can you really do them ALL justice?

 

I have six, a Wheatstone 48 key model 21 treble, a Wheatstone 56 key model 19 tenor/treble Æola, a Wakker 30 key Jack baritone, all of which are played regularly. I also have three Lachenal 48 key treble models; one tutor model fully repaired but awaiting tuning and re-voicing, one 'Inimitable' awaiting (lots of) repair and tuning, and a very cheap tutor model that will probably be scrapped for spares.

 

Technically (I suppose), I own a seventh one too. That's a brass reeded Wheatstone 48 key model 2 treble that I bought at auction, fully overhauled myself and had tuned by Theo Gibb last year. Sally plays that one as her main squeeze so I don't really think of it as being mine.

 

If I had a piccolo, a vintage baritone, a single action bass and a miniature they would get plenty of playing too!

[Ptarmigan]

* .... Most folks seem to own one or two, which makes good sense I suppose .. any more & can you really do them ALL justice?

 

I have six, a Wheatstone 48 key model 21 treble, a Wheatstone 56 key model 19 tenor/treble Æola, a Wakker 30 key Jack baritone, all of which are played regularly. I also have three Lachenal 48 key treble models; one tutor model fully repaired but awaiting tuning and re-voicing, one 'Inimitable' awaiting (lots of) repair and tuning, and a very cheap tutor model that will probably be scrapped for spares.

 

Technically (I suppose), I own a seventh one too. That's a brass reeded Wheatstone 48 key model 2 treble that I bought at auction, fully overhauled myself and had tuned by Theo Gibb last year. Sally plays that one as her main squeeze so I don't really think of it as being mine.

 

If I had a piccolo, a vintage baritone, a single action bass and a miniature they would get plenty of playing too!

 

My question was:

Where Are All The English Concertinas Today, In England?

 

So now we know ... you've got half of them!

 

Lucky man though, that's quite a collection.

 

You do know that there's a " a single action bass" just waiting for your bid over on eBay right now. That'd get you one step closer to having a FULL SET!

 

Cheers

Dick

[PeterT]

Lucky man though, that's quite a collection.

 

You do know that there's a " a single action bass" just waiting for your bid over on eBay right now. That'd get you one step closer to having a FULL SET!

I still can't work out whether such a wide range of instruments was necessary for "band" arrangements, or whether it was a clever marketing ploy, all those years ago ....... still, a band consisting of 48 key trebles would probably not make for great listening.