Two Reeds Per Note

[Dirge]

Yes, what John said...

[chiton1]

If you want an accordion sound, play an accordion; if you prefer the concertina sound - which is, presumably, why you want to play a concertina - don't try to water it down!

 

Cheers,

John

 

 

I fully agree!

Hermann

[Patrick Walsh]

The CD, The Clare Set, John Kelly, tracks 16 & 17, the Flogging Reel & Scattery Island Slide are played with a double-reed concertina, described as a German concertina. (in the style of Charlie Simmonds)

[m3838]

If you want an accordion sound, play an accordion; if you prefer the concertina sound - which is, presumably, why you want to play a concertina - don't try to water it down!

 

Correct, except... if you like concertina button layout and accordion sound. Or if you like to have "free bass" in small size. Or if you like muffled nasal concertina sound, but prefer free hand. That's why we have Bandonica, and accordiophone, and Accordion Abrusseze, and Bayan, and Swiss system and you name it.

[Stiamh]

Mushy is good, in my book. One of the benefits of a (light) tremolo tuning on accordions is that it nicely takes the hard edge off equal-tempered (right-hand) chords - the same hard edge that makes many chords on an equal-tempered concertina sound very unpleasant to my ears.

[hjcjones]

I play both anglo and melodeon, and I'm puzzled why you would want a concertina to sound like a melodeon. But if you're determined, why not get a midi concertina which can then produce any sound you like?

[m3838]

Mushy is good, in my book. One of the benefits of a (light) tremolo tuning on accordions is that it nicely takes the hard edge off equal-tempered (right-hand) chords - the same hard edge that makes many chords on an equal-tempered concertina sound very unpleasant to my ears.

 

Hard to argue with that. Good point!

I'm struggling with my Albion, looking for ways to lessen the"Sea Lion" effect without sucrificing arrangement.

Unfortuantely Chopin didn't care to consider concertina in equal temper. So it's either other instrument, something to do with chords or no Chopin. So far neither worked. If it continues this way, I will have to re-orient myself back to B system. Or shake it and start taking piano lessons. "Welcome to mainstream" sort of thing.

Perhabs there is a way to re-tune EC so it's more of a compromize between just and equal temperamnet, so sharps and flats, that are on both sides, are not the same notes?

Whe I ordered Albion, I was pondering if it's a variant, but was advised against it. Still not convinced 100 %. Somhow the sound I produce is far from pleasant to ears. Can't wait till I'll be able to custom order that octave tuned English.

[wntrmute]

I'd think that an English concertina would be pretty easy to adapt to a 19 note scale, which would (theoretically) have smoother chords. The tricky bit would be working in those B#'s and Fb's.

 

ETA: Wouldn't pianos also be equal tempered nowadays, too?

Edited May 5, 2008 by wntrmute

[m3838]

I'd think that an English concertina would be pretty easy to adapt to a 19 note scale, which would (theoretically) have smoother chords. The tricky bit would be working in those B#'s and Fb's.

 

ETA: Wouldn't pianos also be equal tempered nowadays, too?

 

I guess so, but they have three or two strings per mallet (or whatever it's called) and decay.

[ragtimer]

I may have to look at them, since my main goal is to get an Anglo instrument, with at least 20 buttons, two reeds per note and small. Some folks across the fence (Melodeon.net) suggested a hohner preciosa, but I'm open to any thoughts on melodeons from you all who mentioned them.

I have a Hohner Preciosa Club, in C/F with 11, 10, and 4 buttons. It needs some work, but has a nice "wet" sound (what we pipe organists call "celeste" and I think accordionists call it "musette"). If you want to talk about it or swing a deal, send me a private message.

 

I personally love the wet sound, but I really think any instrument with it should have a register to turn it off. The Preciosa has no register switches.

 

I have a Hayden Duet Bandoneon made by Bastari, with all notes both sides tuned in octaves. The sound is effective when the octaves are in tune, as someone said, but when they're out of tune the effect is not "wet" -- it's just a bad blend -- you hear two separate reeds instead of a single, blended, powerful tone.

 

All told, I'd opt for a concertina with one reed per note. --Mike K.

[ragtimer]

I'd think that an English concertina would be pretty easy to adapt to a 19 note scale, which would (theoretically) have smoother chords. The tricky bit would be working in those B#'s and Fb's.

 

ETA: Wouldn't pianos also be equal tempered nowadays, too?

 

I guess so, but they have three or two strings per mallet (or whatever it's called) and decay.

Piano triple and double strings are supposed to be tuned in perfect unison, so that doesn't help cover up the nasty stretched major 3rds of equal temperament. (A "Honky Tonk" piano has "wet"-tuned strings and if done nicely is good to listen to -- for a while).

 

What really saves the piano in ET is the relative lack of harmonics to each note -- fewer overtones to clash in a chord. Harpsichords and organs, with their richer overtones, are sometimes tuned in Meantone or some unequal temperament, which matches old period music better anyway.

 

Concertina and accordion reeds are rich enough in overtones that ET doesn't always sound so good.

 

That 19-tone ET might be an interesting way to tune a concertina, using just the notes that map onto our 12 notes, but big trouble in your first session with other instruments A great experiment for owners of MIDI tinas and programmable-tuning synthesizers. Very intriguing indeed. --Mike K.

[Robin Madge]

If you want a conventional concertina to be able to sound like a multi-reed instrument try using amplification and use a chorus pedal and/or digital delay pedal. You should be able to find a music shop that will let you try some out.

 

Robin Madge

[m3838]

Piano triple and double strings are supposed to be tuned in perfect unison

 

Hm, I was of the opinion that pianos can be tuned variably, and I would like my next tuning to be done slightly out of unison. Hard to find professional tuner, not some unsuccessful piano player, scrambling a living. (not that I'm against it, or don't sympathize). I personally don't care much about the sound of piano, tuned in perfect unison.

What really saves the piano in ET is the relative lack of harmonics

 

Really? Never knew. I always thought that Piano has rich overtones, although harpsichords obviously have more. But I was also of the opinion that the less overtones you have, the less forgiving the sound is and the less it fits in a chord. That's why, I thought, harsh, lots of hamonics, accordions sound better chordally than "sweet" sounding, no harmonics, concertinas. Even single reed accordion chords are more agreeable compared

to concertina.

 

That 19-tone ET might be an interesting way to tune a concertina, using just the notes that map onto our 12 notes, but big trouble in your first session with other instruments

 

As someone who doesn't play in sessions and has no burning desire, I would really like to try that kind of tuning, but it's costly. Can any maker or tuner join in and share your opinion on whether it is a sane idea to send my Albion for mean tone tuning?

I'm tired of listening to notes clash.

[Larry Stout]

When I sent my baritone EC to Wim Wakker for restoration I suggested mean tone tuning. He wrote back that when he had done mean tone the owners had often returned the concertina for retuning to something closer to ET. Following advice from Alan Atlas I had him tune it to Young's number 2 instead. It's lovely, sweet, and mellow, but that may be because it is a baritone with german (nickel-)silver reeds. It may also be that I'm losing my hearing in the upper register where the beats would appear. I am, after all, in the age group that can't hear the ultrasonic cell phone ring ;-)}}}

 

The clash results from the higher harmonics which should be right on being far enough off to produce audible beats. That's less of a problem on the 6ths than on the 3rds. Part of the problem is that the waveform produced by free reeds doesn't have the harmonics right "in tune" in part because the vibration modes of a reed clamped at one end don't fall in a harmonic series. That would not be true of piano strings because the vibration modes of a string do fall in a harmonic series.

 

A wet tuned accordion has so many beats going on you don't notice the clashes. I actually find that sound rather annoying and prefer the clear sound of single reeded concertinas.

[Robin Harrison]

Also called "tadpoles."

David, what happens to the tadpoles when they grow up ? Do they turn in to butterflies ?

[JimLucas]

Also called "tadpoles."

David, what happens to the tadpoles when they grow up ? Do they turn in to butterflies ?

Don't they grow into flagpoles?

Perhaps with French flags?