English Or Anglo?

[Skipper]

I am a newcomer to this site and a total tiro as far as concertinas are concerned. However, the concertina sound has always appealed to me and I am going to take the plunge at learning to play the instrument.

 

As a youngster, I was "encouraged" to play the violin and spent several years at it but gave it up at the first opportunity. So, I have some experience with reading music, notation, etc.

 

Now, the question is: given my violin background, do I go with an English or Anglo concertina? What little I know leads me to believe that the English would be the way to go. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

Skipper

[Chris Timson]

As you might guess, this has been a topic that has been addressed in these forums on many occasions in the past, so you might find it advantageous to use the search utility.

 

My own view, FWIW, is that the choice of system is not one you can make based solely on other people's recommendation. It's much too personal. You need some hands on time.

 

Now read on...

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

PS Welcome to the forum!

[David Barnert]

My usual advice is to find out what kind of concertina you were listening to when you decided you wanted to play one and go for it. The English is certainly closer kin to the violin (it was designed to play violin music and has the same range) than the Anglo but that need not be the deciding factor. I play the cello and the Hayden duet concertina.

[Daniel Hersh]

You'll find lots of old posts about this if you do a search--for example, see this thread or this one (especially the first few posts, before people started getting upset). But if you don't find what you need that way or have further questions, please tell us what kind of music you want to play. You might also think about this question: what seems weirder to you, having each button play different notes on push or pull (as on an Anglo) or having to go back and forth between the left and right hand sides of the instrument to go up the scale (as on an English)?

 

Daniel

 

I am a newcomer to this site and a total tiro as far as concertinas are concerned. However, the concertina sound has always appealed to me and I am going to take the plunge at learning to play the instrument.

 

As a youngster, I was "encouraged" to play the violin and spent several years at it but gave it up at the first opportunity. So, I have some experience with reading music, notation, etc.

 

Now, the question is: given my violin background, do I go with an English or Anglo concertina? What little I know leads me to believe that the English would be the way to go. Any suggestions would be much appreciated.

 

Skipper

Edited December 1, 2007 by Daniel Hersh

[Dirge]

As David B has already touched on there is also a third system, the duet. You may have already discounted it as more complex than you need, of course; it has that reputation.

[Skipper]

My primary concern (in the Anglo vs English choice) is the ease of learning to play either instrument for a complete newcomer to concertinas but with a violin background. I have read the very interesting and sometimes heated debates in the suggeted threads, learned a great deal about personal preferences, but I am still no wiser as to which would be the easier route for an ex-violin player. However, I did get the impression that music written for the violin could be played on an English concertina. Am I correct? That in itself would be a plus in favour of an English for me.

[Daniel Hersh]

The problem here is that neither an English nor an Anglo is much like a violin. What kind of music do you have in mind? If you plan to play classical, heavily chromatic music (as opposed to traditional music which tends to stick to the notes of one or two major scales) you would probably get there more quickly on English than on Anglo. But I play Anglo myself, so I hope that an English player or someone who plays both systems will chime in.

 

My primary concern (in the Anglo vs English choice) is the ease of learning to play either instrument for a complete newcomer to concertinas but with a violin background. I have read the very interesting and sometimes heated debates in the suggeted threads, learned a great deal about personal preferences, but I am still no wiser as to which would be the easier route for an ex-violin player. However, I did get the impression that music written for the violin could be played on an English concertina. Am I correct? That in itself would be a plus in favour of an English for me.

[JimLucas]

You might also think about this question: what seems weirder to you, having each button play different notes on push or pull (as on an Anglo) or having to go back and forth between the left and right hand sides of the instrument to go up the scale (as on an English)?

And whether you consider said weirdness to be a negative or positive factor?

[Larry Stout]

I'm a long time fiddler (>50 years). I found English concertina reasonably straightforward and easy to read music on. One thing that bothered me at the beginning was that alternate notes on a scale, being on opposite sides of the instrument, had the sound come to alternating ears-- a stereo effect quite unlike the fiddle, where most of the sound from the instrument comes to the player's left ear. I tried an anglo and couldn't make any sense of it. Recently I picked up a Crane duet which I'm getting along fairly well with, though I still have trouble reading bass clef for the left hand.

 

I play for English country dancing, in an Irish session which tolerates the occasional Northumbrian or Scottish tune, and am trying to learn how to play some of the Victorian parlor music for my own enjoyment (certainly not for anyone else's yet). ECD, Scottish, and the Victorian tunes all tend to use more varied keys than the Irish session tunes usually do. I like having full chromatic options readily available. I also found some of the analogy between a (very legato) style of bowing and bellows control on an EC gave a bit of bit of carry over from violin to EC.

 

As usual, your mileage may vary.

Edited December 1, 2007 by Larry Stout

[Fiddlehead Fern]

I'm another fiddler that is new to the world of concertinas! I have decided I'd like to learn the English system, since facing two notes per button was a bit too daunting. I'm probbly not one to judge, but I got to try an English and managed a scale without too much difficulty going from hand to hand.

 

I hve heard in some places that the English is *more* for accompanimant of the voice, yet I've also heard the same said of the Anglo. if anyone else has veiws on this I'd be interested in hearing them.

[Chris Timson]

I hve heard in some places that the English is *more* for accompanimant of the voice, yet I've also heard the same said of the Anglo. if anyone else has views on this I'd be interested in hearing them.

Anglo can be used very well for song accompaniment, as I can say from my own experience. So can the English, as I can say from listening to my partner Anne devising and playing accompaniments. So can the various flavours of duet, from listening to many players like Tim Laycock or David Cornell or Gavin Atkin, to name players of three of the major duet systems.

 

This is a classic example of what I have always and repeatedly said (old hands, switch off here ). The key is to decide which system you want to play and then work out how to play on it the music you want to play. If you take up a system for reasons of impeccable logic and then find that you don't actually enjoy playing it, then you'll never progress and play the music you want. Conversely if you take much pleasure in your instrument and can't wait to practice on it (a not unusual reaction, by the way) then you'll make progress at whatever sort of music you want to play.

 

OK, so how do you decide which system is for you? By finding players and trying their boxes. In the UK and to a lesser extent elsewhere there are clubs and societies that welcome people who want to try out the concertina. Ditto with folk festivals. There are shops like The Button Box in the States or the Music Room here who will help out. There may be players on this forum who are geographically close to you who would be willing to spend time with you. Use all of those resources if you can.

 

One point about the anglo and Jeffries duet, if I may. It is true to say the English and the Crane duet concertinas are rigorously logical in their layout. If logic were the whole of the story the other concertina systems would never have got a look in. The reason they have is that they appeal to some less logical level of the brain. Trust me, it all seems to make sense once you hold one in your hands.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

Edited December 2, 2007 by Chris Timson

[Mikefule]

No doubt about this: you need to try before you buy.

 

I read and thought and considered and decided I wanted an English. Then I borrowed one and it made no sense at all to me, after a lot of hard practice. Then I borrowed an Anglo and it worked for me, "just like that".

 

Also, listen to one of each being played by a good player. Which sound grabs you? Each can be persuaded to sound like the other, but generally the sounds are pretty different.

 

If there were a single simple answer, why would there be two types?

[meltzer]

No doubt about this: you need to try before you buy.

Absolutely. Even though the Anglo made immediate sense to me (as a melodeon player), I still had a little go on an English, just for the sake of completeness, and to see if I could get a tune out of it (I couldn't).

[RiverHamble]

I was in the same situation regarding which to learn and I was told that if I couldn't play either the choice was really rather academic.

 

I went to The Music Shop in Oxford, there I sat down with the staff and told them what I was after and they let me have a go on both types. After a while and a nice cup of coffee, I walked out with an English which is really wanted all along.

 

You really need to get hands on them just to see what you like. I found playing a scale the English rather cumbersome but dead easy on the Anglo.

 

So as they used to say on Blind Date "the choice is yours"!

[Richard Morse]

While I've never been a good fiddler (played for about 6 years) it wasn't for lack of trying. That waned quickly when I discovered button accordions which I took to immediately but after several years wanted something with more key and "note flow" flexibility - so gave English a serious try. Couldn't quite get my head around that (not surprising with my BA background) so tried anglo which was easier for me... but still not easy to play the kind of music I wanted to.

 

A couple years later I was able to try duet concertina - WOW! Just *my* ticket! It was a Hayden though I think I would have been happy with a Crane or Maccann.

 

The point of all this is that I think that one's choice of concertina is a combination of availability, sense, and purpose. Some people were restricted due to availability of the instrument and made do. Those that had choice often tended toward the system that the best "clicked" with - that made head-sense. You will often hear here about one's brain being "wired" for English or anglo. For most people that is absolutely true (and that a very few people are facile at both).

 

And then there is the purpose. What one would like to play. Many types of music are more easily expressed on one type of concertina over another. For instance: if the speed of playing is paramount (like The flight of the Bumblebee and many other classical works) then English would be the ring. If traditional dance music is your thing then the anglo with its innate dynamic breath may be your choice. If you druther pieces that require serious flexibility (contrapuntal things like simple rounds to duets to several part scores in many keys) then duet could be your cup of tea.

 

My proclivity is for the duet. Let us know what you like playing?

 

-- Rich --

[asdormire]

The in and out but still in a row made far more sense to me then the alternating sequence of left and right. But honestly, a cheap anglo was available when I got my first concertina, and I don't think an english was available.

 

Earlier someone talked about being able to go to the Music Room in England or the Button Box in the US. The button Box is great if you are in New England, New York, New Jersey, Eastern Pennsylvania or Quebec, but it is quite a haul for the rest of the United States and Canada. There are very few places like that in the US where you can try both systems.

 

Alan

[Richard Morse]

The button Box is great if you are in New England, New York, New Jersey, Eastern Pennsylvania or Quebec, but it is quite a haul for the rest of the United States and Canada. There are very few places like that in the US where you can try both systems.

Which is why we have try-before-you-buy, a generous returns period for full refund, and rental concertinas. In all *three* systems.

 

-- Rich --

[frogspawn]

It would have been nice to try different systems when choosing a concertina, but I didn't have that luxury so I had to rely on desk research, mainly through this forum. I'd like to think I then made a rational choice, but actually a saw a relatively cheap antique C/G Anglo and went for it. Unfortunately, it was 20 button and didn't have much wind so I found it rather restricting. A so-called 'beginner's instrument' is more difficult to play than a good one, and can be discouraging. I was looking out for a better antique Anglo but none turned up. Then I saw a Crane, liked the logic of the system, and went for that instead.

 

I think I made the right choice, but I'm not that sure that the choice of system is all that important. Firstly, I think I'd be happy with any system as long as the concertina itself played well. Secondly, if I knew a lot of other concertina players who played the sort of music I like, then I'd be inclined to follow their lead for the support that would offer.

 

Richard