Pads And Valves

[Anthony Cipolone]

Hello again! So I've decided to keep this Lachenal English and I think that all it might need to be brought up to snuff is to replace some valves, pads, and patch up a hole in the bellows. And y'all seem so helpful that I won't feel like I'll be without a paddle if I run into some problems. I have a slew of questions, though:

 

Is it a better idea to replace only those valves and pads that need replacing, or have you found it worthwhile to just go and replace every valve and pad?

 

Anyone have a good supplier in the US for concertina parts, or do most of you order overseas? It's not that I have anything against ordering out of the US -- I'm just impatient.

 

Also, can any of you recommend a good way to clean the buttons? (The person I bought it from says they are bone.) I understand some the staining can't be removed, but the buttons themselves are kinda ... sticky. Would rubbing alcohol be too harsh? Could I use the same cleaner (rubbing alcohol?) to take care of gunk on the wood around the keys?

 

Any other tips -- things I should be aware of?

 

I have David Elliott's book and the internet all within reach and I'm anxious to get started -- my thesis and comprehensives will be done in a couple weeks so I'll have a fair amount of free time to do some work. I'm sure there are many more questions to come.

 

- Anthony

Edited November 3, 2006 by Anthony Cipolone

[Paul Read]

Anyone have a good supplier in the US for concertina parts, or do most of you order overseas? It's not that I have anything against ordering out of the US -- I'm just impatient.

 

 

- Anthony

 

 

My experience is that if you order from Dave Leese, you'll get it within the week in North America.

[David Barnert]

Anyone have a good supplier in the US for concertina parts, or do most of you order overseas? It's not that I have anything against ordering out of the US -- I'm just impatient.

How about the Button Box in Western Massachusetts?

 

http://www.buttonbox.com

 

I don't see a "parts" page on their web site, but I've gotten buttons and springs from them in the past.

 

The owner (Rich Morse) is a member of this forum.

 

[edited for typo]

Edited November 3, 2006 by David Barnert

[d.elliott]

Quick review:

 

full re-valve need;

 

full re-pad needed;

 

pic 67, looks to have the pivot post backing out of the action plate, re-seat this, it is not a spring issue.

 

the inner bellows hinges look good, linen??

 

bellows wear pictures are not too clear but may-be a re-bind is in order

 

the keys appear bushed through the action box cover, which is of moulded rose wood, all this shouts quality, as do the 5 fold bellows.

 

reeds are brass, and ends are wood, so the istrument is likely to be nice and mellow, not too loud.

 

 

the big question, is the instrument in concert pitch? I suspect not, so it will need a full re-tune and pitch change if it is to be played alongside other instruments.

 

 

are baffles still in place?

condition of thumb straps?

do the thumb-screws still tighten in their hole in the woodwork?

 

When you order materials add a few springs of each hand, for both running spares and repair insurance! Also a couple of spare pads, & extra valves. Is easy to mess up a valve. Make sure to order pads and dots! Pads do not automatically come with dots. I would also order a full set of lever arm grommets (leather beads) they cost little and its easier for a novice to change them with the pads

 

You will need to make some simple tools for key height measurement and adjustment.

Get an electronic tuner, fully chromatic, not a reduced note guitar tuner.

Pray for patience, its always helpful.

 

hope that this helps

 

Dave Elliott

[Anthony Cipolone]

Paul and David B, thanks for the suggestions! I'll look into both places for parts.

 

David E, thanks for the tips (and sorry for spelling your last name wrong -- I fixed it!). The baffles are in place, as far as I can tell. Is that the thin cloth ring that goes behind the scroll work? It looks like it's attached to the action box cover via a small piece of cork. The thumb straps have to be new -- they just look too good to be original, and the thumb screws work just fine.

 

I haven't checked for myself, but the person I bought it from said it's tuned to A=455, so it would need a retuning. I'm not planning on playing with anyone right now or any time real soon, so I'll hold off on the tuning. It seems to be in tune with itself, and that's good enough for me right now while I work on my technique and all.

 

Quick review:

 

full re-valve need;

 

full re-pad needed;

 

pic 67, looks to have the pivot post backing out of the action plate, re-seat this, it is not a spring issue.

 

the inner bellows hinges look good, linen??

 

bellows wear pictures are not too clear but may-be a re-bind is in order

 

the keys appear bushed through the action box cover, which is of moulded rose wood, all this shouts quality, as do the 5 fold bellows.

 

reeds are brass, and ends are wood, so the istrument is likely to be nice and mellow, not too loud.

 

 

the big question, is the instrument in concert pitch? I suspect not, so it will need a full re-tune and pitch change if it is to be played alongside other instruments.

 

 

are baffles still in place?

condition of thumb straps?

do the thumb-screws still tighten in their hole in the woodwork?

 

When you order materials add a few springs of each hand, for both running spares and repair insurance! Also a couple of spare pads, & extra valves. Is easy to mess up a valve. Make sure to order pads and dots! Pads do not automatically come with dots. I would also order a full set of lever arm grommets (leather beads) they cost little and its easier for a novice to change them with the pads

 

You will need to make some simple tools for key height measurement and adjustment.

Get an electronic tuner, fully chromatic, not a reduced note guitar tuner.

Pray for patience, its always helpful.

 

hope that this helps

 

Dave Elliott

[Richard Morse]

Is it a better idea to replace only those valves and pads that need replacing, or have you found it worthwhile to just go and replace every valve and pad?

Definitely do them all.

Anyone have a good supplier in the US for concertina parts, or do most of you order overseas?

The Button Box sells concertina parts - not only parts we make ourselves but parts from Dipper and Wheatstone as well.

Also, can any of you recommend a good way to clean the buttons? Could I use the same cleaner (rubbing alcohol?) to take care of gunk on the wood around the keys?

We use a natural citrus cleaner which works great with the bonus of being gentle to our hands and noses.

I haven't checked for myself, but the person I bought it from said it's tuned to A=455, so it would need a retuning. I'm not planning on playing with anyone right now or any time real soon, so I'll hold off on the tuning. It seems to be in tune with itself, and that's good enough for me right now while I work on my technique and all.

The tuning will change substantially (and not uniformly) once you revalve it. If it's still bearable you can put off tuning for awhile - though it's really annoying to play with others (or recordings) or in a learning situation with another. When you do get it tuned, I really recommend that you get it done by a pro rather than trying to tackle it yourself. It costs less than you think (especially if you've done all the revalving, repadding, bushings, etc.) and will be done right.

 

-- Rich --

[Mike Pierceall]

 

 

Anyone have a good supplier in the US for concertina parts, or do most of you order overseas? It's not that I have anything against ordering out of the US -- I'm just impatient.

 

 

- Anthony

 

 

My experience is that if you order from Dave Leese, you'll get it within the week in North America.

That's been my experience as well. Mike

[Richard Morse]

Anyone have a good supplier in the US for concertina parts, or do most of you order overseas? It's not that I have anything against ordering out of the US -- I'm just impatient.

Depending on where you are in the US you'd get the parts from the Button Box within a couple of days (you could also pay extra for the overnight service...).

[Anthony Cipolone]

Thanks for all the excellent info, guys. I actually had some wood cleaner with orange oil from my guitar days, and (after a little test patch) cleaned up the ends.

 

I'm concerned about the bellows, though. The leather seems to be so old and dried that it's not so supple, and even flakes off at the touch. Has anyone ever had this problem? I'm assuming this is a bad thing, and might call for new bellows, though I'm hoping not. I did a little research on the 'net, and some old antique restorers suggest a number of things: Renaissance Wax, Neatsfoot Oil, saddle soap, etc. (Ren. Wax seems fairly decent -- anyone try it?) I'm lucky enough to live in New Orleans where there are countless antique stores and a few good people who specialize in antique restoration; I may take the box to them to look at and see what they suggest about the leather.

 

I'm going to patch the two holes from the inside and take it from there. It seems a shame if they need replacing since the cards and linens inside look so well, but I suppose the leather is the more important part, after all.

 

- Anthony

[McIsog]

I'm concerned about the bellows, though. The leather seems to be so old and dried that it's not so supple, and even flakes off at the touch. Has anyone ever had this problem? I'm assuming this is a bad thing, and might call for new bellows, though I'm hoping not. I did a little research on the 'net, and some old antique restorers suggest a number of things: Renaissance Wax, Neatsfoot Oil, saddle soap, etc. (Ren. Wax seems fairly decent -- anyone try it?)

- Anthony

 

Hi Anthony,

 

Sounds familiar. I picked up a 26 key Lachenal on ebay recently that is in the exact same condition, needs pads, valves, bushing bits and the bellows are exactly as you are describing as well. Brass reeds too. I am quite handy with models, glue, screwdrivers etc. I too am willing to take on the pad/valve job but the tuning I will not do - I don't want to mess up a very nice antique instrument.

 

But my question is this - If the bellows in the condition described above are not salvagable how many people do their own re-bellowing and do they do it from scratch or purchase a kit?

 

Dan

[Anthony Cipolone]

Hi Anthony,

 

Sounds familiar. I picked up a 26 key Lachenal on ebay recently that is in the exact same condition, needs pads, valves, bushing bits and the bellows are exactly as you are describing as well. Brass reeds too. I am quite handy with models, glue, screwdrivers etc. I too am willing to take on the pad/valve job but the tuning I will not do - I don't want to mess up a very nice antique instrument.

 

But my question is this - If the bellows in the condition described above are not salvagable how many people do their own re-bellowing and do they do it from scratch or purchase a kit?

 

Dan

 

I'm not sure. I was told that it would be best to just order a set of replacement bellows, which is exactly what I might do. I think I might keep these old bellows to sort of tinker on in the mean time. My opinion had been that restoring an old instrument meant keeping as much of the original parts, but I'm starting to think that bellows are like strings on a classical guitar -- they can keep a long time and sound nice, but at some point they wear down and need replacing.

 

I know you can order individual gussets and butterflies from a variety of vendors (pre-skived, too), and rabbit hide/skin glue is pretty easy to come by (it's used to size canvases for oil painting, so a lot of art stores seem to carry it), so it might not hurt to try some replacing, especially if the bellows are headed for the garbage anyway.

 

- Anthony

[chris]

Hi Anthony

have a look at David Leese web site:- concertina-spares.com he sells bellows kits

look fairly straightforward to fit

good luck

chris

[Anglogeezer]

Also in the UK for bellows there is MARCUS Music..

As for something to treat leather with, I don't think you can find anything better than MINK Oil

( First trap your mink .. then borrow your granny's mangle !!)

Seriously, available in the UK from Leprovo. Absorbs well, leaving no residue or discolouration especially the paste which is white.

 

Jake

[d.elliott]

I'm concerned about the bellows, though. The leather seems to be so old and dried that it's not so supple, and even flakes off at the touch. Has anyone ever had this problem? I'm assuming this is a bad thing, and might call for new bellows, though I'm hoping not. I did a little research on the 'net, and some old antique restorers suggest a number of things: Renaissance Wax, Neatsfoot Oil, saddle soap, etc. (Ren. Wax seems fairly decent -- anyone try it?)

- Anthony

 

Hi Anthony,

 

Sounds familiar. I picked up a 26 key Lachenal on ebay recently that is in the exact same condition, needs pads, valves, bushing bits and the bellows are exactly as you are describing as well. Brass reeds too. I am quite handy with models, glue, screwdrivers etc. I too am willing to take on the pad/valve job but the tuning I will not do - I don't want to mess up a very nice antique instrument.

 

But my question is this - If the bellows in the condition described above are not salvagable how many people do their own re-bellowing and do they do it from scratch or purchase a kit?

 

Dan

Dan,

 

I see bellows as a consumable item, admittedly over tens of years, but, like pads & valves, they have a finite life.

 

Dave

[McIsog]

Dan,

 

I see bellows as a consumable item, admittedly over tens of years, but, like pads & valves, they have a finite life.

 

Dave

Thanks Dave! I'm still new to these (and here) and I want to tune this instrument 'correctly' - that would include all the consumables that are past their prime - including now the bellows.

 

Jake, Chris, Richard and Anthony - thanks for the references to the parts suppliers. All of them look capable of servicing this concertinas needs. Just a matter of shopping and whether I want to do any work myself. One of the tradeoffs that is surprising is the time - Some of the shops have quite a backlog for tuning/restoration work.

 

Dan

[Paul Read]

Also in the UK for bellows there is MARCUS Music..

As for something to treat leather with, I don't think you can find anything better than MINK Oil

( First trap your mink .. then borrow your granny's mangle !!)

Seriously, available in the UK from Leprovo. Absorbs well, leaving no residue or discolouration especially the paste which is white.

 

Jake

 

I would be wary of using an oil-based leather treatment as it can affect the glue holding the bellows together.