Larry Stout Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 I recently purchased this baritone through the good offices of a fellow c-netter. It has square ended reed shoes and (mostly) German silver reeds. All parts are marked with the serial number 2037; there is no label with a maker's name. Such a number appears in the Wheatstone ledgers in 1860 with a notation which might mean it was sold as a used instrument. That date seems late to me for the kind of reeds and reed shoes. Does anyone recognize the fretwork, reeds, or anything else which might give a clue about the history? It has a mellow, quiet sound. My wife's reaction was that she liked this one. The cats also approved. Larry Stout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squeezora Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 Hello Larry, http://www.horniman.info/WNCMARC/C1052/PAGES/C8P0330S.HTM Ours must be related :-) Juliette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 They both look similar to early Wheatstone fretwork. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted September 14, 2006 Share Posted September 14, 2006 The fret work, square ended reeds and action are consistant with an early Wheatstone treble (#1078) that I am restoring. I think you have a gem! Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan atlas Posted September 15, 2006 Share Posted September 15, 2006 DEAR LARRY: yes, the annotation "SH" in the ledgers does indicate that the instrument is being sold second hand. . . . .given the serial number, i'd say it's from the late 1840s. . . . . .even though there is no listing for it at that time. . . . .Allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 (edited) DEAR LARRY: yes, the annotation "SH" in the ledgers does indicate that the instrument is being sold second hand. . . . .given the serial number, i'd say it's from the late 1840s. . . . . .even though there is no listing for it at that time. . . . .Allan I suspect the key here is 'Baritone'. The round end reeds were part of the mass production from Lachenal, and initially applied to the treble instrument range. The non-standard ranges continued to be built in the original style for longer. I'd go a little later than Allan and suggest perhaps early 1850s. Edited September 16, 2006 by wes williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allan atlas Posted September 16, 2006 Share Posted September 16, 2006 FOLKS: Wes could be right, but i'd still go with the late '40s. . . . .note that C1047, which gets going on January 1st, 1851, lists the following serial numbers for its first five entries: 3144, 2311, 2319, 2828, 2829. . . . . .so if serial number is any guide at all to PRODUCTION (as opposed to sales), i'd say that 2037 is a bit earlier. . . . we might split the difference and play it safe by saying CIRCA 1850. . . . .one of the problems is that the sales ledger that would have recorded the sales in the period immediately prior to that in C1047 is missing. . . . . thus we're missing most of 1848 and 1849-1850, during which period 2037 was likely sold.................allan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted September 17, 2006 Share Posted September 17, 2006 FOLKS: Wes could be right, but i'd still go with the late '40s. . . . . Folks, Please, don't think that Allan and I disagree to any great extent - we work together a lot. My point with this instrument was that it was not one of the more usual treble range, and as I've explained in an article on the numbers muddle, we have ample statistical proof that instruments were not numbered sequentially, but somehow used blocks of numbers in the early days. You can reproduce the data below using some software from my webpages, but this is the spread of recorded dates from serial 2000 to 2070, and most of these point towards the early 1850s. But then again - it could be late 1840s, and every entry below is a resale Serial 2000;C1047 page 004: 30 Jan 1851 Serial 2014;C1047 page 077: 01 Oct 1852 Serial 2015;C1048 page 037: 27 Apr 1853 Serial 2016;C1048 page 061: 03 Nov 1853 Serial 2016;C1049 page 045: 12 Feb 1855 Serial 2017;C1049 page 045: 12 Feb 1855 Serial 2018;C1053 page 052: 08 Mar 1869 Serial 2020;C1047 page 014: 11 Apr 1851 Serial 2020;C1049 page 012: 13 Jul 1854 Serial 2021;C1051 page 031: 22 Jun 1858 Serial 2022;C1049 page 014: 08 Aug 1854 Serial 2023;C1048 page 076: 20 Feb 1854 Serial 2024;C1050 page 006: 17 May 1856 Serial 2029;C1047 page 063: 28 May 1852 Serial 2031;C1048 page 058: 21 Oct 1853 Serial 2032;C1051 page 013: 27 Jan 1858 Serial 2034 (Case);C1051 page 078: 23 Jun 1859 Serial 2034;C1052 page 096: 06 Apr 1864 Serial 2036;C1052 page 095: 23 Mar 1864 Serial 2037;C1052 page 033: 17 Oct 1860 Serial 2043;C1049 page 064: 15 Aug 1855 Serial 2051;C1047 page 061: 07 May 1852 Serial 2059;C1047 page 026: 29 Aug 1851 Serial 2064;C1052 page 059: 17 Oct 1861 Serial 2068;C1047 page 002: 19 Jan 1851 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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