Baritone Anglo

[hjcjones]

Your terminology is "wrong" only in that it seems not to have been used generally, so others seeing it might misunderstand. I think this is simply a case where using a "simple" description such as "baritone F/C" can be misleading, but a somewhat longer description -- e.g., "F/C a step below standard G/D, but in a baritone-size body" -- would be much clearer.

 

If a baritone is defined only by reference to a "standard" pitch instrument, which it is an octave below , then I have to agree. However, if you regard this pitch as being "standard" F/C, then, as Robin has pointed out, a true baritone F/C would be more at home with the basses. If you think of "baritone" as simply meaning the middle range of available pitches, then I think it is actually on the borderline between "standard" and "baritone".

 

To my mind, everything about this instrument puts it in the baritone category, except for the definition which requires a baritone to be an octave below something else. As I suggested previously, we should imagine there being an F/C among the "standard" instruments to which this is the baritone equivalent. As this would be very highly-pitched, I doubt if this actually exists (although no doubt someone on here will prove otherwise )

[Graham Collicutt]

BTW,mine was ebony ended, metal buttons.I've been trying to get a pic to stick, but there's a global overload, or something. I sent you pics in 2003 so you may well have them in your archive.

OK, I thought I remembered yours as ebony ended, but I found pictures in my archive of a metal-ended, large anglo, labelled "Linota F-C", so I thought my memory was wrong. Now I'm wondering where I got those photos, and where I put yours. Obviously not a unique setup, is it?

 

I posted F/C Wheatstone Linota in the Buy & Sell forum on 2nd July 2005 with photos, one comparing size with G/D Jeffries. It was very similar in weight to the 38 button Jeffries and could be played almost as fast, but was best used for song or Playford. Chris Algar described it as a tenor when he sold it.

[hjcjones]

I posted F/C Wheatstone Linota in the Buy & Sell forum on 2nd July 2005 with photos, one comparing size with G/D Jeffries. It was very similar in weight to the 38 button Jeffries and could be played almost as fast, but was best used for song or Playford. Chris Algar described it as a tenor when he sold it.

 

That's interesting. This shows that, on the one hand, some F/Cs were made to "standard" size, and from your description have similar handling characteristics. On the other hand, some (like mine) were made to baritone size and with the playing characteristics of a baritone. It would be interesting to compare the sound of the two and hear whether the larger size really makes a difference.

 

I guess that knocks my theory of a high-pitched C/F on the head! Nevertheless, whilst it may not be strictly correct to call my instrument a baritone, I persist in thinking that it fits best into that category. "Tenor" may be more accurate, but to me would imply a standard-sized body.

[JimLucas]

I posted F/C Wheatstone Linota in the Buy & Sell forum on 2nd July 2005 with photos, one comparing size with G/D Jeffries. It was very similar in weight to the 38 button Jeffries and could be played almost as fast, but was best used for song or Playford. Chris Algar described it as a tenor when he sold it.

I guess that knocks my theory of a high-pitched C/F on the head! Nevertheless, whilst it may not be strictly correct to call my instrument a baritone, I persist in thinking that it fits best into that category. "Tenor" may be more accurate, but to me would imply a standard-sized body.

I guess I don't understand why you need to "fit" it into such a "category" at all. Do you insist on calling a standard C/G anglo a "treble" or a standard G/D a "tenor"? Before the above report of Chris A. using the term "tenor", I don't think I encountered anyone using that word to classify an anglo. Why not call your F/C an "F/C", or even a "large-body F/C", and leave it at that?

[Graham Collicutt]

I posted F/C Wheatstone Linota in the Buy & Sell forum on 2nd July 2005 with photos, one comparing size with G/D Jeffries. It was very similar in weight to the 38 button Jeffries and could be played almost as fast, but was best used for song or Playford. Chris Algar described it as a tenor when he sold it.

 

That's interesting. This shows that, on the one hand, some F/Cs were made to "standard" size, and from your description have similar handling characteristics. On the other hand, some (like mine) were made to baritone size and with the playing characteristics of a baritone. It would be interesting to compare the sound of the two and hear whether the larger size really makes a difference.

 

I guess that knocks my theory of a high-pitched C/F on the head! Nevertheless, whilst it may not be strictly correct to call my instrument a baritone, I persist in thinking that it fits best into that category. "Tenor" may be more accurate, but to me would imply a standard-sized body.

 

If you look at the photos, you'll see it was a large bodied anglo; the reeds would have been at least 50% larger than the equivelent reed on the G/D.

[JimLucas]

I posted F/C Wheatstone Linota in the Buy & Sell forum on 2nd July 2005 with photos, one comparing size with G/D Jeffries. It was very similar in weight to the 38 button Jeffries and could be played almost as fast, but was best used for song or Playford.

This shows that, on the one hand, some F/Cs were made to "standard" size,...

If you look at the photos, you'll see it was a large bodied anglo; the reeds would have been at least 50% larger than the equivelent reed on the G/D.

Ah, that's where I got those photos.

 

Yep, you said it was similar in weight to the G/D Jeffries, not similar in size. I guess the reeds under the extra buttons of the 38-button G/D sort of balance the weight added by the larger size of the 31-button F/C.

[Chris Timson]

Well, a bit belated, but since the discussion was at least partly about song accompaniment with the baritone anglo I thought an example would be useful. This from from our CD Peaceful Harbour. It's a song of Anne's called Come Trust In Me, and the accompaniment is Anne's brass-reeded Wheatstone baritone English and my Dipper baritone C/G:-

 

www.concertina.info/odds/trust_in_me.mp3

 

Hope that's useful.

 

Chris

[doodle]

I have both a Dipper G/D and a Dipper G/D bass anglo.

You lucky bugger!

 

The Dipper bass anglo that I met once had (if my memory serves me right) green ends, and I played it on the front at Sidmouth. That wasn't you by any chance? I ask because I know there are very, very few of these beasts around.

 

Chris

 

PS Thanks, Bob.

[doodle]

I'm having a bit of bother sorting the way this site works when I make a reply, so sorry if I've filled a page with pointless re-quotes of existing postings!

 

My Dipper bass is a 33 button G/D with ends made from wood from a 100year old + grand piano and buttons from the piano's "black notes". Robin Scard made part of it, under Colin's guidence, with the rest being made by Colin and Rosalie. It is mahogany coloured with black bellows and although I've done my "time" at Sidmouth, since the 19th edition of the Festival both as workshop musician and as a member of booked bands, I haven't played my bass there. It was subject to the usual construction delays of Colin's well stuffed order book and to the less usual delay of Robin breaking his leg!! Took about 5 years from conception to birth, as I recall. BUT worth the wait.

Edited March 8, 2006 by doodle

[Dave Weinstein]

It was a desire for a bass G/D that led me to my current instrument.

 

At this point, I'm no longer looking for a bass G/D (since trying to play both layouts would drive me mad), but I do have a Drop-D G/D on order from the Dippers, in addition to the superb instrument that Bob Tedrow built for me.

 

--Dave

[Gerry]

Well, I've taken the plunge and ordered a C/G Baritone from Bob, So.. . . .

A great big thanks to everyone who took the trouble to reply, and especially those who recorded some examples for me. The Baritone Anglo is obviously not the oddity I thought it might be. In deference to the advice given to me in my other C# thread, I've ordered it with the C# push on Button 1 and pull on button 2 - thats the opposite of the Jeffries layout, but the same as Mick Bramich's book. Time will tell if I've made a naff decission or not.

 

Bob estimates around 3 months or so for the Baritone, so I'll let you all know how I get on with it then.

Thanks again.