Inexpensive Digital Recording Options?

[Daniel Hersh]

I haven't recorded anything (either at home or in a studio) since analog days, and I'm trying to figure out the best option for for making digital recordings at home at a reasonable price. I read the earlier thread about Sony Digital Voice Recorders, and it looks like that might be a good bet for me--fairly inexpensive, portable and seemingly easy to use for recording, rough editing and transferring to a PC. I was wondering, though, about sound quality on a device that wasn't intended for music recording. Is the sound quality of a recording made on a DVR with an external microphone comparable to a recording made with the same mike and a minidisc recorder? Would anyone recommend a direct-to-PC option instead? And are there other options that I should be looking at?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

Daniel

Edited February 16, 2006 by Daniel Hersh

[Paul Read]

I haven't recorded anything (either at home or in a studio) since analog days, and I'm trying to figure out the best option for for making digital recordings at home at a reasonable price. I read the earlier thread about Sony Digital Voice Recorders, and it looks like that might be a good bet for me--fairly inexpensive, portable and seemingly easy to use for recording, rough editing and transferring to a PC. I was wondering, though, about sound quality on a device that wasn't intended for music recording. Is the sound quality of a recording made on a DVR with an external microphone comparable to a recording made with the same mike and a minidisc recorder? Would anyone recommend a direct-to-PC option instead? And are there other options that I should be looking at?

 

Thanks in advance for your advice!

 

Daniel

 

I have just bought a Microtrack 2496. Very portable and great sound. There is also the Edirol E-1. It is well worth doing a search of the reviews as both have downsides. There are a lot of reviews out there for these two pieces of equipment.

[fiddlersgreen]

I use a Sony Mini Disc player with "Micropone Madness" rabbit ear-like microphones for sessions etc. But for doing a little more serious recording I patch the microphones through a small mixer ( which also provides preamps) and output to the Mini Disc. You can then transfer the tunes by analog to the PC or download a patch which I understand will allow you to import the tunes digitally for anything you have recorded (I have not tried that yet). The recording quality of the Mini Disc is quite good and of course the quality of the microphones makes a diffenence also. I don't have much time today to get into the details but I hope this helps.

[m3838]

Anything that goes beyond "Me - microphone - recorder" scenario leaves me puzzled.

In this simple scenario I think internal Apple mike with Audacity does marvelous job.

Camcorder too, records very nicely, but then you have to use some software to transfer the recording into a PC.

Mini disc recorder's internal microphone records it's own noise.

I tried many mp3 recorders - very noisy recordings.

Another trick that amateurs can use to beat professionals, is to record on anything you want, play it through high quality headphones, placed over, say, iBook's internal mike and record it into Audacity (or anything). To cut the noise just lower the level of recording (a slider) and increase the level of playback.

It takes about 10 minutes of experiment to find a good combination.

 

P.S.

What about this Sony CDs, that install spywear into your computer, so you can't copy CDs?

Shouldn't we stay away from any digital Sony products for now?

Edited February 16, 2006 by m3838

[Richard Morse]

I've been quite happy using my digital recorder with a separate mic (the built-in mic isn't as high quality) which records in WAV format. Its high quality setting produces a very clean recordings probably because there are no moving parts this device. If you touch the device when using its built-in mic you'll get some finger noise.

 

For really good quality recordings I use a really good mic (with a long cord) and record directly into the computer. I use Polderbits software which is inexpensive, easy to use, and comes with an editor, filters, format converters, etc. Very cost-effective.

[Paul Read]

I've been quite happy using my digital recorder with a separate mic (the built-in mic isn't as high quality) which records in WAV format. Its high quality setting produces a very clean recordings probably because there are no moving parts this device. If you touch the device when using its built-in mic you'll get some finger noise.

 

For really good quality recordings I use a really good mic (with a long cord) and record directly into the computer. I use Polderbits software which is inexpensive, easy to use, and comes with an editor, filters, format converters, etc. Very cost-effective.

 

I use Polderbits myself and I've found it to be very good. The Microtrack records to a flashcard so transfer to the computer is very fast and easy. The quality is supposed to be better than DAT but, of course, the mic used plays a large part in the recording quality. It comes with a small stereo T microphone which gives good results but will take professional quality mikes also.

[Jody Kruskal]

Would anyone recommend a direct-to-PC option instead?

 

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

 

I would recommend exactly that. Many cneters use Audacity, which is free recording software, easy to use and offers a bunch of powerful editing tools. Download it right off the web. I use Garageband which came on my Mac and works very much the same way. The sound quality is excellant, even using my computers internal mic and improved by using a sterio external mic as I do.

 

Jody

[Daniel Hersh]

Thanks, you guys! This is great information.

 

A couple of questions:

 

Richard, can I ask what model of digital recorder you're using?

 

And Jody (or others) can you tell me a little more about direct-to-computer recording? Does this require a special type of mike (and can you recommend one)? And does the external mike connect to the USB port, or somewhere else?

 

Daniel

 

Would anyone recommend a direct-to-PC option instead?

 

Daniel

 

Hi Daniel,

 

I would recommend exactly that. Many cneters use Audacity, which is free recording software, easy to use and offers a bunch of powerful editing tools. Download it right off the web. I use Garageband which came on my Mac and works very much the same way. The sound quality is excellant, even using my computers internal mic and improved by using a sterio external mic as I do.

 

Jody

[Jody Kruskal]

And Jody (or others) can you tell me a little more about direct-to-computer recording? Does this require a special type of mike (and can you recommend one)? And does the external mike connect to the USB port, or somewhere else?

 

Depends on what kind of audio quality you want. Like I said, my laptop internal mic is part of my mac laptop and sits behind a grill. Something like it exists on most computers. Audacity makes very listenable recordings using this very convenient setup. Free and pretty easy to learn how to use.

 

I have a Sony stereo mic that I put through a mixer. The mixer out signal goes into my computer's audio in mini jack. This is better quality.

 

M-Audio and others make USB A/D converters that will accept professional XLR phantom power mics if studio quality is required, but at that level, the sound of the room you are recording in starts being even more important in the quest for quality. Most pro studios are recording onto computers these days. The gold standard in software is Protools. The last I heard, you can download a working Protools lite free off the web as well.

 

To answer your question better, I would need to know more about your computer and what your needs/projects are. Also, I’m really no expert... still figuring this stuff out myself.

[Chris Ghent]

Straight to PC with a good soundcard and with the best microphone you can afford. I use Cool Edit.

 

Your sound will never be better than the microphone no matter how much money you spend further down the chain...

 

Chris

[Richard Morse]

Richard, can I ask what model of digital recorder you're using?

I use a Panasonic RR-QR240 which was considered the best digital voice recorder about 8 years ago (mine's that old!). It's only mono, but I use it primarily for grabbing tunes in sessions (using the internal mic) for later transfer to PC and learning (often using the Amazing Slow Downer) though it also does a very respectable job at recording with an external mic, transfer to PC, and crunch to mp3 for web listening.

 

With the quality of most people's computer cards and speakers they can't tell the difference between a recording of his quality and one of best CD quality.

 

OTOH, current top-of-the-line digital voice recorders like the Sony ICD-MX20VTP record in stereo and have memory card slots for increased capacity. There's also the Pogo RipFlash which was a CD quality stereo digital recorder. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer made though is still available here and there.

[bellowbelle]

..................................................................................................OT

H, current top-of-the-line digital voice recorders like the Sony ICD-MX20VTP record in stereo and have memory card slots for increased capacity. There's also the Pogo RipFlash which was a CD quality stereo digital recorder. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer made though is still available here and there.

 

I'm going to keep in mind that Sony ICD-MX20VTP. I like the memory-card option, the removable storage (...a new thing, to me, these days!).

 

I currently have a Sony ICD-ST. I did buy an appropriate, recommended-type of external mic for it, too, but, I prefer the sound I get using the built-in mic. Of course, I must use their software, and covert the files to .wav and then to .mp3. I really like this little recorder....glad I got it.

 

Recently, too, I got a PoGo RipFlash Plus from ebay. (They are VERY hard to find!) I'm not sorry I got it, and for the low price that I did, but it's definitely not as good -- in my opinion -- as the Sony. Of course, I did get a used PoGo. Anyway, it's not a loss for me, since I wanted an MP3 player and it plays them. It will also directly record an MP3, but -- I've had mixed luck with it, and there seems to be more tech support and so on for the Sony gadgets.

 

I should say, too, that I haven't really tried my best to get the greatest possible recordings. I try to get at least 'good' Mp3s. So...if you listen to my files, which are done with the Sony, keep in mind that there are a lot of variables!!!

[RatFace]

Has anyone got advice on a good portable stereo microphone preamp that doesn't cost the earth that would let me use my mic with a hard-drive MP3 player/recorder. This seems to be the problem: (1) portable MP3 music recorders with mic input are useless for everyday use as a player (2) anything that is sold as a voice recorder is unlikely to have the quality needed (by me) for music recording, and (3) portable (hard-drive) MP3 recorder/players with line input are excellent for playback, but you can't just plug a mic in.

[Perry Werner]

Howdy:

 

I'm also interested in possible purchase of a good digital recording device.

I've just looked at the Sony ICD-MX20VTP.

Should I get one of these what are the steps neccessary to make a recording and get it to the point where I can work with it to learn tunes recorded at sessions, etc.

 

Do I need an external mic for this or is there a built in mic?

Do I dump the recording into my Mac and use the Amazing Slow downer to listen and learn?

Is there a recording device such as this which has slow downer type software built in to it?

Does the recording open up in iTunes and is it transferrable to my iPod, even in slow down form.

Basically I would rather not sit near a computer and listen while I practice.

I'm not set up to where I can do that.

I'd like to have something that I can easily have with me when I practice and listen to the recording.

Or a am I dreaming that this will be that easy and portable?

I'd love to have a small digital do it all device that I can carry around with me and have it all!

If some one could spell this all out step by step (how this all works) I think it would be of great help to me and other non-computer geek types.

Thanks for the help.

Perry Werner

[Larry Stout]

I've been using an Edirol R1 recorder to pick up tunes at sessions. Before Christmas my son was looking for a less expensive high quality possibility for his fiance who is studying to be an opera singer and I didn't see anything which would fit her needs better.

 

The Edirol has many different possible levels of compression for mp3's and will also record wav format (though that uses much more memory). On a reasonable quality setting with NiMH batteries I can record for about 5 hours onto a half gig card (it will take up to 2 gig, but the battery life becomes a limitation before that).

 

The built in stereo microphones manage quite well with no noise from the unit itself, but it does have a jack for an external microphone of your choice.

For playback it has a slow down feature, though it only has one setting (half speed), so I use Audacity on my computer instead. I've never tried slow downer, though I know others who swear by it.

 

It communicates with my Mac using a USB port, showing up as an external drive. I can export to iTunes or to Audacity easily. Minidisc players seem to be willing to talk to PC's but not to macs (based on my son's search last November).

 

In my experience it fits all of the requirements Perry set up in his post (just above). It is larger than other mp3 players and minidisc recorders I've seen-- closer to the size of a paperback book than to the size of a flash drive. It is still easy to carry aroung and take to sessions.

 

I think of the combination of the Edirol and Audacity on my mac as ideal for my recording needs.

 

Larry

[bill_mchale]

Howdy:

 

I'm also interested in possible purchase of a good digital recording device.

I've just looked at the Sony ICD-MX20VTP.

Should I get one of these what are the steps neccessary to make a recording and get it to the point where I can work with it to learn tunes recorded at sessions, etc.

 

Do I need an external mic for this or is there a built in mic?

Do I dump the recording into my Mac and use the Amazing Slow downer to listen and learn?

Is there a recording device such as this which has slow downer type software built in to it?

Does the recording open up in iTunes and is it transferrable to my iPod, even in slow down form.

Basically I would rather not sit near a computer and listen while I practice.

I'm not set up to where I can do that.

I'd like to have something that I can easily have with me when I practice and listen to the recording.

Or a am I dreaming that this will be that easy and portable?

I'd love to have a small digital do it all device that I can carry around with me and have it all!

If some one could spell this all out step by step (how this all works) I think it would be of great help to me and other non-computer geek types.

Thanks for the help.

Perry Werner

 

 

The voice recorders are very handy as tune grabbers (I personally use the Olympus DS-20, which at its highest quality can store over 2 hours of stereo). They have a built in microphones (in some cases stereo

mics), are very handy and easy to use and usually have a small built in speaker. Now this speaker means that it is very handy for workshops and the like where you might not be able to get back and transfer the files to your computer (the DS-20 BTW, doesn't need any special software; they have some, but it stores

files in WMA format). Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of the voice recorders allow you to change the

play back speed. Also these units are not going to produce the quality an audiophile might demand.. though in my experience they certainly match the quality of some of the old recordings.

 

--

Bill

Edited February 18, 2006 by bill_mchale

[Daniel Hersh]

Thanks once again to all of you for your advice. I have ordered a Sony DVR which I believe is the successor to the ICD-ST and hope to eventually use it to record and post some tunes.

 

Daniel

 

 

..................................................................................................OT

H, current top-of-the-line digital voice recorders like the Sony ICD-MX20VTP record in stereo and have memory card slots for increased capacity. There's also the Pogo RipFlash which was a CD quality stereo digital recorder. Unfortunately it seems to be no longer made though is still available here and there.

 

I'm going to keep in mind that Sony ICD-MX20VTP. I like the memory-card option, the removable storage (...a new thing, to me, these days!).

 

I currently have a Sony ICD-ST. I did buy an appropriate, recommended-type of external mic for it, too, but, I prefer the sound I get using the built-in mic. Of course, I must use their software, and covert the files to .wav and then to .mp3. I really like this little recorder....glad I got it.

 

Recently, too, I got a PoGo RipFlash Plus from ebay. (They are VERY hard to find!) I'm not sorry I got it, and for the low price that I did, but it's definitely not as good -- in my opinion -- as the Sony. Of course, I did get a used PoGo. Anyway, it's not a loss for me, since I wanted an MP3 player and it plays them. It will also directly record an MP3, but -- I've had mixed luck with it, and there seems to be more tech support and so on for the Sony gadgets.

 

I should say, too, that I haven't really tried my best to get the greatest possible recordings. I try to get at least 'good' Mp3s. So...if you listen to my files, which are done with the Sony, keep in mind that there are a lot of variables!!!

[Michael Reid]

Unfortunately, as far as I know, none of the voice recorders allow you to change the

play back speed.

Bill, my Sony digital voice recorder -- model ICD-ST25 -- does this. You can slow any tune down to 50%, in 1% decrements. For that matter, you can speed it up. Either way, the pitch stays the same.

 

A previous post about the Olympus DS-2/DS-20 said that it, too, can slow down tunes.