Octave Playing In Morris Music

[Jim Besser]

I've been fooling around with doing short passages in Morris tunes in octave format -- playing the same note an octave apart, instead of harmonies and chords. To me, this adds some variety to the music and seems to help accentuate certain passages to go with the dance (the beetle crushers in Orange in Bloom /Sherborne , if you know what I mean, or the first few measures of the B part in Cuckoo's nest, which I play in Dm).

 

I asked the dancers if they liked it, and their collective response can be paraphrased this way: "Huh?"

 

Since I play in blissful ignorance (there aren't a lot of Anglo players with Morris sides around here), I'm wondering how common this is, how people regard this kind of playing and whether it is a grotesque violation of Morris tradition for which I will be damned to eternal hellfire. .

[Hilary]

About the only thing you are likely to be damned for is expecting your dancers to notice that you were trying something different. Tell anyone who asks that it's 'from the tradition' and you'll get away with it

I'll have to try your idea at our next practice.

[Jim Besser]

About the only thing you are likely to be damned for is expecting your dancers to notice that you were trying something different. Tell anyone who asks that it's 'from the tradition' and you'll get away with it

I'll have to try your idea at our next practice.

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It is a little discouraging when the dancers seem so completely oblivious to the music -- except, of course, when we make mistakes.

 

BTW, are you anywhere near Cambridge University? My wayward child is arriving there today for grad school.

[Chris Timson]

I'm wondering how common this is, how people regard this kind of playing and whether it is a grotesque violation of Morris tradition for which I will be damned to eternal  hellfire. .

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Nowadays, it strikes me that there isn't much you can do with Morris that would even cause you to be confined in a Watneys pub for 5 minutes.

 

Go for it. I reckon it should be a good way of playing for Morris. I like the sound of double-noting a lot.

 

Chris

Edited September 28, 2005 by Chris Timson

[JimLucas]

I've been fooling around with doing short passages in Morris tunes in octave format -- playing the same note an octave apart, instead of harmonies and chords.

...

I'm wondering how common this is,...

In my experience, not very common, but not unknown.

 

...how people regard this kind of playing...

I sometimes do it myself, even on the English. On the anglo I may even do it for an entire tune. No one has ever complained (at least not where I could hear them ). Then if I hit a wrong button it's the brief harmony that's the interesting variation, rather than the playing in octaves.

 

...and whether it is a grotesque violation of Morris tradition...

Hardly. The principal Morris tradition that I know goes, "If it works, use it. If it's wet, drink it!"

 

...for which I will be damned to eternal hellfire.

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That will be because you play Morris, not because you play it in octaves.

[Paul Read]

the only concern I would have is that you lose the 'beat' which is the main thing that keeps the dancers on rythm and in some situations is all that can really be heard clearly. I think you'd have to be selective with this.

 

Remember, you're playing to support the dancing, not to give a musical recital!

[Jim Besser]

Remember, you're playing to support the dancing, not to give a musical recital!

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The reason I started doing it was for passages where I can't do a regular bass/chord arrangement or a good harmony. I am averse to ever playing single notes, and this seemed like a good way to avoid that for such passages.

 

In Cuckoo's Nest, I maintain a real steady bass/chord accompaniment that the dancers like -- but at the start of the B part, it doesn't work. My choice is to use bass/chords that don't really work well, or do octave playing for that passage, or single notes.

 

 

You're right about supporting the dancing; that's the object of the whole exercise..

Edited September 28, 2005 by Jim Besser

[JimLucas]

the only concern I would have is that you lose the 'beat'...

One can just as well lose the beat with heavy chording as with octave playing or even a bare melody. In Morris the beat should come mainly from the way individual notes are attacked, particularly the notes on the main beats. This can be done quite effectively by a solo fiddle. It can also be done by a concertina playing octaves.

 

Remember, you're playing to support the dancing, not to give a musical recital!

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The two are not mutually exclusive. Good Morris music is a delight to listen to, even when the dancers aren't visible. Or do we all actually think the Kimber and Kirkpatrick recordings of Morris music are either boring or undanceable?

[cnrobinson]

Morris originally (?) started with pipe and tabor, then fiddles took over, now it's mostly melodeons and accordions. I know of a few good anglo morris players, such as John Watcham, and even a few ec players, like myself (though I gave up the whole morris scene some years ago). The main point is rhythm. Keep the pulse and you can do anything you want! Listen to the vintage players (like William Kimber, he payed in octaves sometimes) or even fiddlers like Jinky Wells, and you will wee what I mean. The beat is all that matters for the dancing. If you play a few wrong 'uns just call it jazz!

 

Chris

[Rhomylly]

My father, a pipe and tabor morris musician of some note, always preferred 3-hole pipe to concertina for his morris accompaniment because he felt the pipe "cut through" the crowd noise better and the dancers were always able to hear him.

 

(personally I think it's because he could never get the hang of anything with free reeds. So what is my instrument family of choice? Freud? Freud?)

 

I'm thinking straight octave playing would double the volume of the concertina and deftly eliminate that problem. What do the EC players in DC think, Jim?

 

And as a former morris dancer, I can honestly say that I didn't give a damn what the musician was playing just so he/she didn't drop the beat. They could have been playing the theme to Star Wars for all I cared.

[cnrobinson]

No, we never could find a dance to Star Wars. We used quite a number of other tunes not collected by Cecil Sharp (Teddy Bears Picnic for instance) but Star Wars always eluded us.

 

Chris

[Jim Besser]

the only concern I would have is that you lose the 'beat'...

The two are not mutually exclusive. Good Morris music is a delight to listen to, even when the dancers aren't visible. Or do we all actually think the Kimber and Kirkpatrick recordings of Morris music are either boring or undanceable?

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That's a point that seems to elude a lot of people.

 

One musician I know argues that the best Morris music is music stripped down to a very basic rhythm track. THe dancers say he's easy to dance to, but his music sounds, well, very unmusical.

 

OTOH, there are musicians like Big Nick whose music would be a delight to hear even if there wasn't a dancer within miles. It's interesting, he varies it a lot and it sounds great.

[Jim Besser]

I'm thinking straight octave playing would double the volume of the concertina and deftly eliminate that problem. What do the EC players in DC think, Jim?

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That's true; it makes for a loud and very penetrating sound, which is one reason I've been fooling aorund with it.

 

No EC players doing Morris around here these days. Actually, very few concertinas of any variety to be seen.

[Rhomylly]

I thought Foggy Bottom had one? Or is he more on button box now?

 

I've known Rock Creek's fiddler for about 25 years now, back when she was really new at playing for morris, back in the early Baltimorris days (okay, I just dated myself).

[Jim Besser]

I thought Foggy Bottom had one? Or is he more on button box now?

 

I've known Rock Creek's fiddler for about 25 years now, back when she was really new at playing for morris, back in the early Baltimorris days (okay, I just dated myself).

 

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Foggy Bottom is mostly melodeons, plus Big Nick on Jeffries Duet. Rock Creek is the old lineup; melodeon, sometimes piano accordion, fiddle. The guy with the cool Dipper -- Carl?-- comes only sometimes.

 

But we'll see them on Saturday when we dance at a Kate Charles benefit concert and on the streets in Balto!

[Dan Worrall]

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The reason I started doing it was for passages where I can't do a regular bass/chord arrangement or a good harmony.  I am averse to ever playing single notes, and this seemed like a good way to avoid that for such passages.

 

In Cuckoo's Nest, I maintain a real steady bass/chord accompaniment that the dancers like -- but at the start of the B part, it doesn't work. My choice is to use bass/chords that don't really work well, or do octave playing for that passage, or single notes.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

William Kimber's approach when chords got difficult....for him, not very often!...was to go with some simple octave notes. He also went to octave playing when the melody line was especially rapid (sixteenth note runs on the B part of Soldier's Joy, for example). But his usual style of playing, which you might experiment with in addition to the other things you mentioned, was as follows:

1) He would simply follow the melody around on the left hand, one octave down...but

2) to this, he added a note either a third down or a third up (i.e., the adjacent button) to make a partial chord. And

3) usually, he would not play all the notes of the melody on the left hand, but emphasized those on the first and third beats of a four beat measure and dropped the rest out. The left hand part was played very staccato.

Note this is not an oom-pah kind of playing; he didn't seem to be as influenced by melodeon players as many are today. Moreover, he didn't usually play full chords, except at the beginning or end of a phrase. If you are looking for some variety, you might try alternating in some of this type of accompaniment with an oom-pah type, in alternate playings of a tune. His recording of Bacca Pipes provides a good example.

By the way, Kimber didn't particularly care that the chord fragments he created fitted within the straightjacket of the three chord trick. Thus, adding these up-or-down thirds occasionally puts some minor key feel into the music. I like that feel, but some wouldn't, especially when playing with others who adhere more strictly to the three chord trick style of accompaniment (melodeon, for example).

[Paul Read]

The two are not mutually exclusive. Good Morris music is a delight to listen to, even when the dancers aren't visible. Or do we all actually think the Kimber and Kirkpatrick recordings of Morris music are either boring or undanceable?

 

I don't think you've quite understood me Jim. If you're playing moris tunes for the pleasure of playing it, as far as I'm concerned, anything goes if it works for the tune. If you're playing for the dancing, the dance should take priority.

 

I've danced to good musicians who make lousy morris musicians because they're more interested in what they're playing than what supports the dance. A good morris musician can really lift the dancers. In my experience, the best morris musicians have been dancers first.

 

I think Kimber and Kirkpatrick were/are able to modify their playing to fit the occasion. I don't think anyone said either of these guys were boring or undanceable. However, if they were doing a morris tune as a performance piece it may be beautiful yet undanceable. That wouldn't be wrong, just different. As it happens, both of these guys were also dancers.

[David Barnert]

Joining in a little late, I do this too, Jim, but not often (and on my Hayden Duet). I'll generally do it for one whole time through a tune (maybe the next to last time), just for variety. One tune I do it with is "Lollipop Man" for Ducklington.