The learning curve

[Ubizmo]

So, I ordered Coover's "Harmonic Style" book, and received it yesterday. I know it's way ahead of where I am now, but I just wanted to have a look.

 

Good grief! I definitely see the point about needing the tablature as the harmony gets more complicated. Some of those chords look like knuckle-breakers. Something to look forward to.

[Steve Schulteis]

18 minutes ago, Ubizmo said:

So, I ordered Coover's "Harmonic Style" book, and received it yesterday. I know it's way ahead of where I am now, but I just wanted to have a look.

 

Good grief! I definitely see the point about needing the tablature as the harmony gets more complicated. Some of those chords look like knuckle-breakers. Something to look forward to.

 

I actually started with that book, and probably made it half way through the tutorial portion before getting distracted by other music. I have no regrets about it. Starting from the beginning, a lot of it is less tricky than it looks, so don't be intimidated. You'll see many of the same chord patterns occur across the tunes, just like Clive was saying, and they become second nature before long. Sometimes there is a tricky reach, or you have to use different fingers than you normally would so you can hit the next button without disrupting the rhythm, but if you go in order, these get introduced a little bit at a time.

[Ubizmo]

Three weeks wraps up today. I went to a session last night--with low whistle, not concertina--but there was a concertina player there who seemed pretty good to me. I spoke with her afterwards and learned that she'd been playing for three years, and before that played piano and violin. So, like me, she could read and play music on other instruments when she started on concertina. She said that her own learning curve was rapid for six months, then slowed down a lot, which is not unusual, I think. I found it encouraging to speak with her. She also recommended the Caitlín Nic Gabhann online course.

 

Meanwhile, I'm doing my best to keep busy and keep trying different things. I play a more familiar (to me) version of "Out on the Ocean" than the one in the 1-2-3 book, and I find that a good tune to practice using the alternate fingering of low D, as Gary Coover suggests. It's a good confidence-building tune, jaunty without being too difficult. I'm also feeling pretty good about "Off to California" and "Rights of Man" although the metronome is still not my best friend. And I'm playing "Scarborough Fair" and "Sounds of Silence" and trying to add my own simply harmonies to them.

 

I'm still not sure I have the hand straps the way I want them. My hands still have a tendency to slink out of them gradually as I play.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I would say that if you do use a metronome now .. in the future try to do without it as much as you can, and trust upon your own sense of rhythm and pace. Because it could make everything too mechanical and regulated and tendancy to make music lack the interpretation that comes through slightly slowing and changing tempo during a performance. That moment in a tune when you slow very slightly or pause upon a particular note and then maybe build up again .. 

[RAc]

43 minutes ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

in the future try to do without it as much as you can, and trust upon your own sense of rhythm and pace. Because it could make everything too mechanical and regulated and tendancy to make music lack the interpretation that comes through slightly slowing and changing tempo during a performance.

 

I would be very very cautious with that piece of advice. Rhythm is the heartbeat of music. And music with an imperfect rhythm is the cunterpart of a living being's heart getting out of sync. A listener will intuitively notice whether an imperfect rhythm is a result of choice or inaptness.

 

If @Ubizmo claims that "he and the metronome are still not best friends," there is an indication that he is probably neither a seasoned dancer nor a natural when it comes to rhythm, so getting the heartbeat stable is one of the most basic skills to master before attempting anything else.

 

Most people I know who follow the "trust your own sense" school just misuse that as an excuse to justify their own rhythmic imperfection and their unwillingness to put real work into their practicing. The reality check comes in the moment where one attempts to play with others, and the check is dear when "having to" play in public, in particular for dancers. BTDT.

 

Of course, those who never play outside of their own home recording studios are free to do whatever they want, but few ot those ever produce anything that qualifies as satisfying listening.

 

So my advice to @Ubizmo would be to make playing with a metronome second nature until it feels strange not to do it anymore and build up your music around the musical heartbeat. All the liberties you may be able to take come after that.

 

Edited November 5, 2023 by RAc

[Anglo-Irishman]

@RAc has just given the reply that a player of dance music must give.

Perhaps you're expecting me, as a singer and self-accompanist, to have a different attitude to the metronome. In that case, you'd be disappointed! When @SIMON GABRIELOW talks about speeding up and slowing down, he's probably thinking of rubato, which is an advanced technique for soloists performing with an accompaniment. Rubato means "stolen" - time is stolen from one note and added to another, but so that the entire section of the music retains the same duration. And this momentary hesitation or hurriedness is really only noticeable when the underlying beat is kept steady. This effect is most noticeable in "hot" jazz, where the soloist is all over the place, but the rhythm section is like clockwork (or a metronome, which is, after all, a form of clockwork!)

 

Of course there are forms of solo music, like slow airs, for instance, that seem totally un-rhythmic. However, it is good, when singing or playing them, to have a beat in your head. And you learn that beat from using a metronome.

 

Cheers,

John

[Notemaker]

Notice several gliding over Caitleen Mc Gowan ( Sorry the Gaelic spelling is as memorable to me as the road to timbucktoo  ...lol ).. with scant consideration of  pitfalls / errors.

 

First of all, I began with folk dance when a small boy. Then we had simple instruments such as Tinwhistle and Harmonica. But the way we learned by ear still applies. Get the basic tune FIRST then add to that later.

 

With Caitleen's approach it feels as if she has it the other way around, stuffing pieces with diddly decorations from the get go. That, IMHO, is a waste of time.

 

Far better to learn, taking as much time as you like,  from Garry Coover's books, or similar, getting basic cross row technique first, then migrate, if you like to other sources. Too don't be swamped in 'Celtic' music by only learning from that source. Beyond there is a world of great music for Anglo.

 

Age and learning. In this case it does not matter.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Leah Velleman]

This is getting pretty silly.

 

Given all the ways to play (strict time, swing, or rubato, ornamented or plain, cross-row or not, and all the different possibilities for harmony...) I think the only sane advice is "learn from people you'd be happy to sound like." If you like Irish ornamentation, find videos about it that sound good to you. If you want to harmonize like a specific player, find a book that gives tabs for their arrangements.

 

We can argue forever about what the OP should want, but that's not the point. If he likes a player's sound, he can benefit from studying them. If not, he can't. 

[Ubizmo]

Okay. Metronome.

This isn't my first time learning a new instrument, nor my second, nor my third, although it's certainly the most different kind of instrument I've ever tried. A metronome is not a drum. It's purpose is not to help me learn about rhythm. It is a tool to help me learn to play evenly, when the newness of the instrument inclines me to play unevenly. It's also helpful even with an instrument that I'm already familiar with, for mastering a difficult passage of music, again to help me to play it evenly when the difficulty of the passage inclines me to play it evenly.

 

As for Caitlin's lessons...I've yet to take the plunge. I've listened to her playing, and enjoyed it. The woman I spoke with says she doesn't touch on ornamentation until the "Improver" level of playing. When I'm learning a tune on the whistle, I learn to play it dead straight first, with no ornamentation at all, until I can play it cold that way without hesitation, at session tempo. Then I think about ornamentation. And indeed, as I think I mentioned elsewhere, in a session, less is more when it comes to ornamentation. It's not a solo performance, and if there are several high D whistles in the room, as there usually are, a lot of ornamentation begins to sound, well, chaotic.

 

In any event, I seem to be doing okay at the moment, between Coover's 1-2-3 book, and playing through tunes that I already know. The book has plenty of tunes that I don't already know to balance that out. I'm dabbling in harmony, but I have a ways to go before I get serious with that. When I can play melodies by ear about as well as I can on whistle, recorder, sax, or ocarina, then I'll be ready to add harmony. I'm still at the stage where I have to think, "Ah, the next note is a high A. How do I play that again?" On the other instruments, I don't have to think of the name of the next note, just where it is under my fingers. Indeed, sometimes as I work out a tune on the concertina I have to pick up a whistle to find out what that next note is. At some point, fairly soon I hope, that middle level of thinking of note names will drop out. Then I can start to think about things like harmony and ornamentation.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

Every day a heart beats we are not aware of it pattering away; because it happens automatically; because inside there is a natural beating rhythm in all nature. And if you trust in that in built intuition, which is there in most people, eventually you will find your way to the melody of life itself.🌝🌝🌝 ( Said with gentle humour not meant to be taken absolutely seriously?) 

[RAc]

5 hours ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

Every day a heart beats we are not aware of it pattering away; because it happens automatically; because inside there is a natural beating rhythm in all nature. And if you trust in that in built intuition, which is there in most people, eventually you will find your way to the melody of life itself.🌝🌝🌝 ( Said with gentle humour not meant to be taken absolutely seriously?) 

I disagree, but there is no point in continuing this debate, as the TO is certainly not in need of well intended advice about music making in general (from his opening post: "I play the sax, ocarina, tin whistle, and I can read music. I play the whistle at Irish sessions.") Apologies on my side for failing to acknowledge that, but I felt that your statement needed a response either way. People in real need of guidance about how to approach music may be severely mislead by it.

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I did NOT intend on offending anyone. .and feel the world is currently too full of misunderstanding as it is to add to the pot of stirring anger.

And I do not mean to falsely give advice to others who are experienced, indeed my belief is to always encourage and give positive comments in art forms, as I have taught in adult education myself, I like to give friendly thoughts out, not negative. Sometimes words alone can be misread, because in text we can only read the tone of voice in our own individual way, however it is good to debate subjects and thoughts, and that is surely a good thing overall, even if there is not always a mutual understanding between viewpoints typed in.

[Ubizmo]

Moving along, I find that each day I make a little bit of progress. I also do a bit of tin whistle practice each day, especially in learning new tunes. The person who runs the sessions that I often go to is offering a paid "tunes class" for all instruments. Since I'm very interesting in expanding my repertoire, I signed up for it. First meeting is tomorrow night. She asked us to look at a couple of jigs, "Tom Busby's" and "The Miller's Maggot." I looked them up on The Session and played through them a few times on the whistle (I don't find either one that appealing, if I'm honest) and thought, why not try them on the concertina?

 

So I did just that, and found I was able to read through them just fine, without making a ton of mistakes. Most of my mistakes at this point are about whether to draw or push, but those are becoming fewer, as long as the tempo is slow. If I speed it up, I get more of those mistakes. I assume this will get better.

 

I can see that the Irish trad music can be played using four buttons on the left hand and seven on the right, adding a couple of alternates on the left G row for E and B. And the alternate low D, for a total of fourteen buttons. Since I've been playing a lot of that music, I'm getting the touch-typing kind of muscle memory for those buttons. I don't have to think about where they are anymore, even if I still fumble the bellows direction. 

 

But I don't want to settle for playing only half of the instrument, so I'm making a point of working on other music too. As a player of the Coda ocarina, I have this book: 300 folk song book, which turns out to be very useful for concertina. Yes, I should be working on playing by ear. All in good time. Apart from the low F# and D, the pinky buttons are mostly terra incognito to me. And apart from the Bb and C# buttons, the accidental row is also mostly unfamiliar.

 

 

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I like the mixture of your instruments you also play; tin whistle and Ocarina, it's interesting how differently you have to work on playing technique, with other instruments too. I have recently also begun playing a Chalumeau  ( early forerunner to clarinet it is wooden without key extensions)..and find it fascinating to have to adapt to other stuff also.; And nice to hear music played on concertina also adapted for  that instrument.

Edited November 7, 2023 by SIMON GABRIELOW

[Ubizmo]

1 minute ago, SIMON GABRIELOW said:

Unlike the mixture of your instruments you also play; tin whistle and Ocarina, it's interesting how differently you have to work on playing technique.l with other instruments too. I have recently also begun playing a Chalumeau  ( early forerunner to clarinet it is wooden without key extensions)..and find it fascinating to have to adapt to other stuff also.; And nice to hear music played on concertina also adapted for  that instrument.

I've played a chalumeau, just for fun, and was surprised at how deep a sound can come from such a little instrument. But yes, there can be interesting crossover in technique. I don't play the sax that much these days, maybe once or twice a week, but I sometimes find myself playing "cuts" on it, a very un-sax-like embellishment. Playing the concertina, my fingers sometimes itch to play a certain ornament, but I'm not there yet. Also, with certain tunes there are sometimes little "fill" lines that I play without thinking on a whistle, or recorder (I don't play proper recorder repertoire; I just like playing pop songs on them). If I try to play them on the concertina, it takes a lot of thinking.

 

And sometimes, I try something on the concertina that is simply way over my head on that instrument. Last night, I got the idea to try to play "Harlem Nocturne." It didn't end well.

[SIMON GABRIELOW]

I was surprised how much strength playing a Chalumeau takes; more than for a recorder.. you really have to blow in a different way with the teeth being important and tongue.. a good work out for the lungs indeed! And really a very reedy ( almost ancient) voice like tone ... So I find it compliments the metal reeds of concertina quite well.

[Ubizmo]

Yes, the chalumeau has a lot of back pressure, although some of that is a matter of finding the right mouthpiece and reed combination. But any instrument in that family takes way more power than any recorder. The recorder is probably the most delicate of wind instruments. 

 

On that topic, I gather there's quite a range in concertinas to, in terms of stiffness of buttons and bellows. I have no experience with other concertinas but my Rochelle 2 doesn't feel very nimble. It doesn't matter much at the moment, but I think at some point it will. 

[Caroline]

Just a quick note on Caitlin’s video lessons.  She does not teach ornamentation in her beginner lesson set, so that’s 25 tunes, no ornamentation.  OAIM on the other hand, Edel Fox starts practically from the get go.