Edward Jay's to-be Beaumont successor discussion

[robertovich]

3 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

My Beaumont has 1/4" buttons with slightly radiused edges and flat tops.

 

I would not want anything smaller, certainly not 1/8" diameter buttons.

Agree,  1/8" are too small and my mistake.  I meant 1/4" for sure.  Thanks for remarking on the error.  

[Don Taylor]

22 hours ago, robertovich said:

 

I would also like to express my interest in a "successor to the Beaumont" discussion.  I have owned a Beaumont Hayden  for about 5 years and considered myself--rightly or wrongly--an "advanced intermediate" player (on a good day) or midlin' intermediate on a so-so day!  Back when the Beaumont was being developed,  I was studying intensely on how to improve on the standard 46,  and working with some others like Mike Knudsen (RIP),  and Jim Albea,  plus a few more.  We went over dozens of button board layouts--given the reed type,  and box dimensions, etc.  So,  to Lukasc M.  and Ed J, and others interested, I I would put in my two cents worth.  

  Essentially,  this amounts to the following which I have concluded would make an excellent box  (first row begins with B flat):      1) Hex and  7" across the flats like the Beaumont.  2)  55-57 buttons  (including linkages if necessary.  3) This come to (ideally), 26 on LHS with the Ab (3rd. row up), D# (2nd. row up)  and C# (4th row up.  On RHS the Ab 3rd. row up,  the E (5th. row up).   The  lonely C# below the first row (RHS) is a friendly option which makes it 57 total.   4) Palm bar to be  perindicular to the "lap flat")  and parallel to the button rows.  I have experimented with both slant and parallel bars--I rigged a moveable/adjustable bar on my Stagi to do this before getting the Beaumont.  Conclusion:  Once used to one or the other,  not any significant difference--the hand adjusts.  For me,  the middle and index fingers alternated a little better between and 1 note and 4 note   with the slant bar,  and the short pinky finger reaches  are  significantly  better with the parallel bar.  Take your pick.  5) delrin buttons at 1/8" diameter with slightly radiused edges and flat tops.  Delrin is great but a bit slippery for me if tops are domed.  6)  7 leather bellows,  and leather palm strap with thumb cutout on bar.  

  That's it.  Comments welcome.  
::: 

I would add that the air button should not be embedded in the RHS palm rest but should be a separate button as it is on most concertinas.  Not because it is difficult to use but because it makes it almost impossible to fashion your own palm rest to suit your own hand size or ergonomic needs.  It also makes it tricky to replace the RHS end if you have removed it to service the concertina.  I can't imagine why the BB thought this was a good idea.

[robertovich]

40 minutes ago, Don Taylor said:

I would add that the air button should not be embedded in the RHS palm rest but should be a separate button as it is on most concertinas.  Not because it is difficult to use but because it makes it almost impossible to fashion your own palm rest to suit your own hand size or ergonomic needs.  It also makes it tricky to replace the RHS end if you have removed it to service the concertina.  I can't imagine why the BB thought this was a good idea.

 

[robertovich]

1 hour ago, Don Taylor said:

I would add that the air button should not be embedded in the RHS palm rest but should be a separate button as it is on most concertinas.  Not because it is difficult to use but because it makes it almost impossible to fashion your own palm rest to suit your own hand size or ergonomic needs.  It also makes it tricky to replace the RHS end if you have removed it to service the concertina.  I can't imagine why the BB thought this was a good idea.

Good points,  Don,  although I have become used to the in-bar  air button on the Beaumont and like it.  I took the bar off 2 or 3 times and had no trouble with the air button being in  there,  but as you say,  not so good if you want to customize the bar to  your preference.  Glad you brought it up.  

[David Barnert]

2 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

I would add that the air button should not be embedded in the RHS palm rest ... because it makes it almost impossible to fashion your own palm rest to suit your own hand size or ergonomic needs.

 

Are the palm rests on Mr. Jay’s concertinas separate pieces, or are they 3-D printed continuous with the end surface?

 

2 hours ago, Don Taylor said:

I can't imagine why the BB thought this was a good idea.

 

FWIW, my Dickinson/Wheatstone 46-key Hayden has the same set-up.

Edited March 21, 2022 by David Barnert
Formatting

[Don Taylor]

10 minutes ago, David Barnert said:

FWIW, my Dickinson/Wheatstone 46-key Hayden has the same set-up.

I suspected that was where the idea came from.

[seanc]

Might I offer a suggestion?

it seems like end bolts are a consistent cause of issues. 
 

it would be great if these could be replaced. Maybe with holes through the end plates through the bellows. And then some sort threaded ferrules with knurled thumb screws mounted on the bellows side.  Or possibly the same idea with some sort of quick release twist lock.

 

the idea is that there are no threads inside the ends to get fouled up. On the ends there are no screw heads that could have been buggered and sharp, scratching hands. No trying to remember which screw actually works in which hole. Also, the whole assembly, ferrule and thumb screw can be easily and entirely replaced. 
 

As a bonus. Where the ends on the face a blank and flat, and replaceable. Different colors could be made to match, contrast or colorize. 

[judyhawkins]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:19 PM, Don Taylor said:

I would add that the air button should not be embedded in the RHS palm rest but should be a separate button as it is on most concertinas.  Not because it is difficult to use but because it makes it almost impossible to fashion your own palm rest to suit your own hand size or ergonomic needs.  It also makes it tricky to replace the RHS end if you have removed it to service the concertina.  I can't imagine why the BB thought this was a good idea.

 

Ah, the air button on the Beaumont. It was sheer desperation that put it in the handle, Bob Snope and I went round and round trying to find somewhere to put it, and that wound up being  the one place I could get a lever arm to reach a place to put an air hole.  It was that, or not have one at all.

[robertovich]

As per a previous comment by me,   I don't think the air button in the palm bar is a big deal.  It works quite well on the Beaumont when gotten used to.  The only problem - as brought up by Don Taylor -  might come if one were to want to reconfigure the bar in some way or shape.   Also of interest is that Dave Barnert reports that his Dickinson Wheatstone  has the air button in the bar.  Sounds fair enough;   so Hawkins and Snope can rest  assured that their button-in-bar  solution was AOK!

[David Barnert]

On 3/21/2022 at 1:19 PM, Don Taylor said:

It also makes it tricky to replace the RHS end if you have removed it to service the concertina.

 

Until recently, replacing the right end plate after opening the action box of my Dickinson/Wheatstone 46-key Hayden often resulted in the pad of the air vent not firmly closing the hole, giving a significant air leak. I could never figure out why (the end of the lever seemed to go properly through the hole in the button, although I could not see it), but taking it apart and putting it back together again (without really changing anything), sometimes more than once, would ultimately solve the problem.

 

Just in the last few weeks, I have found a new way to deal with the air button when reassembling the action box such that the above problem does not manifest: Rather than put the button into the hand rest (with its hole properly lined up) before lowering the end plate onto the note buttons the way I always used to do it, I first make sure all the note buttons are properly through their respective holes and I can start to see the tip of the air lever poking into the hole in the hand rest and then I slip the air button into the hole and finish lowering the end plate.

[Don Taylor]

4 hours ago, judyhawkins said:

 

Ah, the air button on the Beaumont. It was sheer desperation that put it in the handle, Bob Snope and I went round and round trying to find somewhere to put it, and that wound up being  the one place I could get a lever arm to reach a place to put an air hole.  It was that, or not have one at all.

Thank you, Judy, now I know the reason - and can accept it.  

 

I hope that you are doing well post-BB, and that you are not lost to the concertina world forever.

 

Thank you for your work on the Beaumont, mine keeps me sane and I feel so lucky to have one.