Brass age hardening

[adrian brown]

9 hours ago, Little John said:

 

I suspect there's a bit of confusion here (which also arose in an earlier discussion of temperaments). Ben, Paul and I are using "centred" in the sense of "matching ET" and tuning the other notes relative to that. The other notes will move increasingly far from ET as you go round the circle of fifths.

 

"Centred" is sometimes used to describe where you place the wolf fifth, or the point in the circle opposite (really a pair of notes rather than a single note).

 

Where you place the wolf fifth, and hence which keys you can play in, is a decision which is independent of which note you have perfectly in tune with ET. It's equivalent to deciding which sharps and flats you want.

 

LJ

 

 

Whether it's 11 or 12, you beat me to it Little John, it's a popular misconception that where you put the wolf is dependent on where you start relative to ET. As you point out, you can put the wolf where you like, and independently decide which note is closest to a particular ET scale. the only difference will be to shift the whole instrument up or down a few cents, depending on which note you choose to align with ET.

 

Because I have quite a few Anglos in different keys, it made sense to tune them all to a-440Hz, and shift the wolf around the circle depending so that it is always between the same fingerings, rather than the same notes. If I'd not done this, it would have been awkward to play them together because of the slight difference in overall tuning.

 

Adrian

 

 

[Theo]

16 hours ago, David Barnert said:

 

No, I stand by what I said: Twelve. Read it again, more carefully this time. It would take eleven steps to hit each note once, but we are talking about doing that and then returning to the first note (albeit seven octaves higher). That takes an additional step. Again, the clock face: From the XII, take a step to the I and then the II and continue to the X, XI, and back to the XII. You’ve taken 12 steps.

 

Apologies, my mistake.

[Matthew o Casey]

On 2/25/2021 at 11:01 PM, Stephen Chambers said:

 

That would be the pitch of A (or the relative A on a transposing instrument) which is A-444 = "Medium" or "Society of Arts" pitch, which was established in 1860.

I believe the instrument in question was made before 1860 as the serial number is 8175 , that puts it around 1856 ? Maybe it was tuned after to SOC pitch. 

[Stephen Chambers]

On 3/7/2021 at 9:22 AM, Little John said:

I suspect there's a bit of confusion here (which also arose in an earlier discussion of temperaments). Ben, Paul and I are using "centred" in the sense of "matching ET" and tuning the other notes relative to that. The other notes will move increasingly far from ET as you go round the circle of fifths.

 

Where you place the wolf fifth, and hence which keys you can play in, is a decision which is independent of which note you have perfectly in tune with ET. It's equivalent to deciding which sharps and flats you want. The English system gives you four sharps (F, C, G, D) and three flats (B, E, A). On a duet or anglo the choice is really between four sharps (F, C, G, D) and one flat (B) or three sharps (F, C, G) and two flats (B, E) if you have a bias towards flat keys for song accompaniment, for example.

 

I went through a lot of the same thought processes myself 35 years ago, when I started tuning to Meantone after buying a copy of Charles A. Padgham's (then newly published) book The Well-Tempered Organ.

 

But my conclusion (very much confirmed by examination of Jeffries' Anglos in unaltered original tuning) was that they were transposing instruments, and that (for example) if you wanted to play in flat keys you should get a Bb/F or Ab/Eb instrument that was intended for the job, and not expect those instruments to be perfectly in tune with (say) a "concert pitch" (Irish useage) C/G one. So I set the "relative A" of an Anglo to zero, and temper everything else around it in the same way, as did Jeffries.

 

You'll have heard my work if you listen to Irish players much.

[fiddler2007]

Sideliner: i once tuned an old melodeon which seemed way out of tune on some reeds.

Thoroughly cleaning them and a lot weren't that much off anymore. Accumulated dust, grease, wax debris ...?