Questions for bandoneon

[accordian]

Hey guys. 

 

Received my bandoneon today

And am finding it a bit tuff to start

Off eg I'm playing a oompah pattern, c major. As I'm playing it in one direction it sounds different in the other direction. Maybe it's because I'm using different notes and don't realise it.maybe not. 

As well as them sounding slightly different they don't have quite the punch I'm looking for. Then again I'm playing it at the second from lowest octave so I will try with a higher octave for more of a punch. But yeah any tips are appreciated. 

 

Ps.  I play 144 bandoneon

[Wolf Molkentin]

Congrats to having a new instrument available which is always exciting. As to a 144 Bandoneon, AFAIK it‘s basically a bisonoric instrument, which means that - at least in the „core“ rows (like of a German concertina or 20 button Anglo) - the notes have to differ from push to pull. Hope that helps as a starter...

 

Best wishes - ?

 

Edited November 9, 2018 by Wolf Molkentin
typo

[accordian]

7 minutes ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

Congrats to having a new instrument abailable which is always exciting. As to a 144 Bandoneon, AFAIK it‘s basically a bisonoric instrument, which means that - at least in the „core“ rows (like of a German concertina or 20 button Anglo) - the notes have to differ from push to pull. Hope that helps as a starter...

 

Best wishes - ?

Thanks. All help is appreciated. Never thought I would be able to own a bandoneon. Wanted one for a long time.

[Anglo-Irishman]

15 hours ago, accordian said:

Received my bandoneon today

And am finding it a bit tuff to start

Off

Well, what did you expect? To put it on your knee, turn a handle, and hear "The Stars and Stripes?"

Rome wasn't built in a day, and an instrument as idiosyncratic as the Bandoneon can't even be assessed in a day, either! Even the fairly staightforward piano takes weeks or months to familiarise yourself with.

15 hours ago, accordian said:

I'm playing a oompah pattern, c major. As I'm playing it in one direction it sounds different in the other direction. Maybe it's because I'm using different notes and don't realise it.maybe not. 

As Wolf pointed out, the Bandoneon is bisonoric, so you have to press different buttons on the press and the draw to get the same notes. However, the notes may be in a differrnt octave, which would invert the chord. For instance: C major is made up of the notes (low to high) C, E, G. In the other bellows direction, the same C and E might be available, but the most convenient G might be an octave lower, so the chord would come out as (low to high) G, C, E, which is still a C-major chord, but with the notes in a different order, which will make the chord sound slightly different to the C, E, G version.

 

By the way, why start with C major? On the Bandoneon, the keys of G, A or E major are much more accessible. An Anglo concertinist can play tunes  - and harmonise them - in those keys right from the start! Learning to play the same chord on press and draw is - for me, at least - something for the next step in familiarisation.

 

BTW, in another thread, I recommended the following tutor: http://bandoneon.petermhaas.de/en-grifftabellen/ . It's for a small Bandoneon with 110 tones (like the one I have), but as the author points out, the button layout and the fingerings you learn on the 110-tone instrument can be transferred directly to the 142 and 144-tone versions.

 

Cheers,

John

Edited November 10, 2018 by Anglo-Irishman
Typos

[accordian]

7 hours ago, Anglo-Irishman said:

Well, what did you expect? To put it on your knee, turn a handle, and hear "The Stars and Stripes?"

Rome wasn't built in a day, and an instrument as idiosyncratic as the Bandoneon can't even be assessed in a day, either! Even the fairly staightforward piano takes weeks or months to familiarise yourself with.

As Wolf pointed out, the Bandoneon is bisonoric, so you have to press different buttons on the press and the draw to get the same notes. However, the notes may be in a differrnt octave, which would invert the chord. For instance: C major is made up of the notes (low to high) C, E, G. In the other bellows direction, the same C and E might be available, but the most convenient G might be an octave lower, so the chord would come out as (low to high) G, C, E, which is still a C-major chord, but with the notes in a different order, which will make the chord sound slightly different to the C, E, G version.

 

By the way, why start with C major? On the Bandoneon, the keys of G, A or E major are much more accessible. An Anglo concertinist can play tunes  - and harmonise them - in those keys right from the start! Learning to play the same chord on press and draw is - for me, at least - something for the next step in familiarisation.

 

BTW, in another thread, I recommended the following tutor: http://bandoneon.petermhaas.de/en-grifftabellen/ . It's for a small Bandoneon with 110 tones (like the one I have), but as the author points out, the button layout and the fingerings you learn on the 110-tone instrument can be transferred directly to the 142 and 144-tone versions.

 

Cheers,

John

Hey John. 

 

I didn't expect to be a master it's just my bandoneon sounds a lot different compared to others and so thought I might be playing incorrectly in some way. As for learning the chords in different directions I personally think it depends on where the chord is positioned compared to the previous. 

As well a this a 144 has pretty much everything in each direction. And so if a chord in one direction is a bit tricky you can go for the other direction. 

 

As for the tutor you said about I will definitely give it a look with any luck it might have la cumparsita.

 

Like said really it's just mine sounds different not in a bad sense but more in if I'm doing something wrong I will correct it. But as said may literally just sound different to others. 

 

Thanks John! 

[Anglo-Irishman]

12 hours ago, accordian said:

As well a this a 144 has pretty much everything in each direction. And so if a chord in one direction is a bit tricky you can go for the other direction. 

Right! That's why you have 72 buttons instead of the Anglo-Chromatic concertina's 30 buttons!

 

12 hours ago, accordian said:

Like said really it's just mine sounds different not in a bad sense but more in if I'm doing something wrong I will correct it. But as said may literally just sound different to others.

To the discerning ear, no two instruments sound exactly alike. And no two players sound exactly alike, either. So what are you comparing your sound with? A virtuoso Bandoneonista with an Alfred Arnold instument, or someone like me, messing around on a small, single-reeded, no-name Bandoneon? 

Whatever you do, don't compare the actual sound of your Bandoneon played by you with a recording of someone else playing their Bandoneon. That's the sure path to insanity! Recorded instruments sound the way the sound engineer wants them to sound!

 

And always remember: it's not the instrument that makes the sound - it's the interplay of instrument and player. Report back after a couple of months' practice, and we'll talk about sound!

 

Cheers,

John

[Wolf Molkentin]

8 minutes ago, Anglo-Irishman said:

Report back after a couple of months' practice, and we'll talk about sound!

 

John, you may very well have it completely right here, and your advice is valid in any event.

 

However, we can’t know for sure and thus shouldn’t entirely rule out the possibility that the instrument might have in fact some issues...

 

So the OP should primarily trust the instrument and develop his skills - but OTOH certainly not despair due to a possible deficiency of the instrument which could not be overcome at least by a learner.

 

So @accordian feel free to report and raise questions when they occur, or don’t disappear...

 

Best wishes - ?

[Anglo-Irishman]

8 hours ago, Wolf Molkentin said:

However, we can’t know for sure and thus shouldn’t entirely rule out the possibility that the instrument might have in fact some issues...

 

That's a good point! @accordian, could you tell us a bit about your Bandoneon? Is it new, old or reconditioned? What make is it?

And how did your enthusiasm for the Bandoneon arise? Are there Bandoneon players in your neighbourhood, or did you hear it during a holiday in Buenos Aires?

What about your musical experience - do you already play (an)other instrument(s), and if so, which?

 

It's often said that you should start learning on the best instrument you can afford or obtain - but there are many on this Forum who started out with a cheap concertina and got on very well. At the start, the main job is to get familiar with the fingering system, and you can do that on an instrument that may not have the best sound (as long as it's reasonably in tune).

I find it very important when starting out on an instrument to have some "role model" - an experienced player who plays the music you like the way you would like to play it. If you just listen to them and watch them, you'll go in the right direction.

 

If you already play another instrument, that's a good thing, because then you only have to learn Bandoneon, not Music as such! Skill transfer is possible in some aspects, not in others, so don't expect too much, but look out for the déjà vu experiences!

 

Cheers,

John

[paulbrennan]

"my bandoneon sounds a lot different compared to others " - my first thought is that if it's a 144 it's maybe got three sets of reeds and a wet tuning. The classic 142 bandoneon has two sets of reeds in exact octaves - yours maybe has three, one of which is offset slightly - this will give a characteristic untangoish sound, more like a polka or French sound.  There is apparently a solution - described here, see the part about the "thin paper sheet": http://bandoneon144.blogspot.com/p/blog-page.html   

If you already know about this then it's a question of practicing as mentioned. It's a tough keyboard to learn. There are some great instructional materials out there for bando now, and even Skype teachers.  

 

 

[felix castro]

As I am also interested in the 144 bandoneon, and I have contacted with Mr. Omar Caccia, the writer of the 144 bandoneon blogspot, I can tell some things. 

As Mr. Omar Caccia tells the 144 bandoneon was invented in 1924. Since then and as the bandonions intended to copy the sound of the accordion, they developed bandonions with two, three, even four sets of reeds, usually in the right hand. 

There are 144 bandonions i.e. with two sets of reeds in octave (low and medium, LM) in the left hand and in the right hand with two sets of reeds but not L M,  they are with Medium Medium reeds (MM), with tremolo, giving a more accordion sound.

As Mr. Omar tells 144 bandonions with L M in left and right are rare, and with zinc plates, even rarer.

If the bandonion is with three sets and it is with LMM, it can work "setting off" one of the M reeds set. But if it is only with two sets, M M, it isn't possible to do. 

 

 I have one 144 bandoneon gebruder meinel with LM in the left (I think) and MM in the right. 

I bought recently a alfred arnold with three sets of reeds, LMM, and I shall set off one of the M sets searching a more typical bandonion sound. 

 

Also the zinc plates have different sound than the aluminium plates.