Playing Both Wheatstone And Jeffries System?

[richard]

Hello Folks

 

I am curious to ask players out there who play both Wheatstone and Jeffries Anglo systems what that is like for you. What is your experience with switching back and forth from one to another? Are the imagined muscle memory confusions existent? Perhaps the ablility to change fingering when playing the same tunes on both instruments is an improving exercise that benefits your playing in general? I am considering acquiring a Jeffries to be a sister to my Wheatstone. Should I be fearful?

 

What is your experience?

 

Thanks,

 

 

Richard

[JimLucas]

I am curious to ask players out there who play both Wheatstone and Jeffries Anglo systems what that is like for you.

Ah, not both the Wheatstone and Jeffries duet systems.

 

If C.net had a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section, this would be one of the FGA's (Frequently Given Answers), invariably a follow-on to the question as to whether either the Wheatstone or Jeffries layout is inherently better. (I think the top FAQ's, though, would be, "Which is better, anglo or English?" and "Is a cheap 20-button anglo worth getting to learn on?" )

 

What is your experience with switching back and forth from one to another? Are the imagined muscle memory confusions existent?

My own experience -- and I think the general consensus in previous discussions -- has been that no, after a brief initial period, there's no real problem if you play them both regularly. (Or if you simply switch from one to the other "permanently".) And I'm not the most proficient anglo player in the world.

 

Perhaps the ablility to change fingering when playing the same tunes on both instruments is an improving exercise that benefits your playing in general?

I find it so.

 

I am considering acquiring a Jeffries to be a sister to my Wheatstone. Should I be fearful?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Only if you're the sort who will spend so much time deciding which instrument to use at the moment that you don't get around to playing.

 

Go for it... and enjoy!

[Chris Timson]

If C.net had a FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions) section, this would be one of the FGA's (Frequently Given Answers)

So you think I should add this to the Concertina FAQ? Perhaps I should.

 

For historical reasons I have standardised on Wheatsone for C/G anglos (song accompaniment) and Jeffries for G/D (sessions). However one of my G/Ds (my Morse) is Wheatstone layout, and I have just returned from a weekend session spent playing it because my Jeffries was out of action. I did not find it a problem, particularly. I could remember where the Bb was when I needed it, though I couldn't remember where the G# was in Bluebell Polka. And that's about it.

 

Chrid

[geoffwright]

I find it easy to switch from Anglo to English - even in mid-tune.

I find it more difficult to switch from one set of anglo accidentals to another. I more or less have to relearn some of the tunes that use the changed buttons (probably because my fingers are usually on auto-pilot).

[JimLucas]

I could remember where the Bb was when I needed it, though I couldn't remember where the G# was in Bluebell Polka. And that's about it.

 

Chrid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Looks like any problem you might have, Chrid Chris, isn't specific to the anglo.

[JimLucas]

I find it easy to switch from Anglo to English - even in mid-tune.

I find it more difficult to switch from one set of anglo accidentals to another.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Small differences are often more difficult than large ones, because in many contexts it's beneficial to ignore the small differences. But like nearly everything, practice makes it easier. If you practice going back and forth, you'll get used to it. (A Russian proverb goes, "Repetition is the mother of learning.") Don't overdo it, of course. We wouldn't want you suffering from RSI: Repetitive Switching Injury.

 

Switching between English and anglo is like switching between mandolin and banjo. The differences are so great that even if you do have problems, you don't attribute them to small differences. But switching among anglo keyboard variants is like using different tunings on a guitar. Many people prefer to stick to only one tuning, but those who want to use different tunings (usually for different styles) don't seem to have any real trouble learning to do so. I think switching between DADGAD (once considered innovative, now quite common) and "standard" (EADGBE) tunings is similar to Wheatstone/Jeffries switching.

 

5-string banjo players, on the other hand, seem to have a different tuning for each tune -- well, OK, for each "key", -- and some folks will deliberately keep switching keys just to keep them quiet.

Edited February 21, 2005 by JimLucas

[Ken_Coles]

I play both the Wheatstone and Jeffries layout anglos and don't find it a big deal. I'm not sure it's even a brain-improving exercise! If I'm playing very fast (e.g. an Irish session) then it takes a conscious minute or two to reset my brain.

[stuart estell]

I am curious to ask players out there who play both Wheatstone and Jeffries Anglo systems what that is like for you.

Ah, not both the Wheatstone and Jeffries duet systems.

 

From my current experience I'd certainly caution against combining either species of anglo and the Jeffries Duet unless you're prepared for some serious head-scratching and swearing. The similarities in layout, though superficial, are just enough that it's very easy to be caught off-guard and be forming the wrong chord-shapes for the instrument in your hands, especially if you swap instruments with no time for your brain to adjust...

 

Anyway, back on topic: with anglos, I'm like Chris, though I'm the other way round - Jeffries accidentals for C/G, Wheatstone for G/D. If I've got someone else's C/G in my hands, switching between the two layouts isn't really an issue (as Ken says, it's more like flicking a switch). The main battles for me are to remember that on a 30-key Wheatstone-layout C/G I can't get a full chord of D major including the top octave because of that absent high D on the pull, and that I haven't got that mid-range pull C#, which I use quite a lot, especially in D minor. I imagine that if I didn't play in such a chordal style it might have even less impact.

[Chris Timson]

Looks like any problem you might have, Chrid Chris, isn't specific to the anglo.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course, you're quite right. Well spotted. That particular typo is a very common one for me, ever since I had my stroke (along, of course, with a number of others, but I expect you'll point those out too).

 

Chris

[richard]

Hi There

 

Thanks for all the useful responses so far....

 

I wonder how much of a sin it would be to just change (if practical and possible) the Jeffries accidentals over to match the Wheatstone's or vice versa?

 

Has any one done that and survived?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[JimLucas]

I wonder how much of a sin it would be to just change (if practical and possible) the Jeffries accidentals over to match the Wheatstone's or vice versa?

Has any one done that and survived?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not if we found out about it!

 

Seriously, that would require more than just rearranging the reed locations. Even shifting existing reeds to new positions would undoubtedly require some minor retuning, but a few of the notes in each layout are not found in the other, and on at least a couple their pitches are far enough apart that retuning wouldn't be feasible. I think you'd need at least 2 -- and better 4 -- new reeds of Jeffries quality.

 

But why even think of going to all that trouble before you find out whether you need to? You should spend at least a few months trying to get used to playing interchangeably in the two systems before concluding that it's a problem. I'm fairly confident that if you do it regularly you'll get used to switching back and forth almost without a thought. And if you do, then you'll also be able to play others' intruments, of either system.

[Samantha]

Chrid

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

'Nuff said?

[Chris Timson]

'Nuff said?

I would prefer it so.

 

Chris

[Tom Lawrence]

I think how much touble you have switching between Jeffries and Wheatstone depends on your playing style.

 

For example, I play mostly along the rows, with some simple borrowing of the reversed A/G buttons for certain purposes. This means it's largely a matter of remembering to hit the C# on a different button and occasionally a high reversed A or G has to come from a different button.

 

Another local concertina player has an unusual fingering that makes heavy use of C#, D#, etc as parts of rolls and cuts, which means almost every bar of a tune he tries to do something that isn't there. It's much harder for him.

 

One thing not mentioned: the biggest problem I've had switching is not actually the note assignment but the fact that on some instruments the rows are shifted more than on others, and I find my self hitting "air" in between the buttons at first every time I switch.