Terry McGee Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Me too Alex… I'm proud to admit that I'm a silly romantic! Thanks for that thorough explanation and insider advice about marking valued objects Terry… very interesting indeed. There seems to be two points of interest here… the first concerning the best way to directly mark something valued, as with pencil, ink, etc. and secondly, how to leave information without too much space being taken up… we just need to combine the two! Sorry about throwing in the questionnaire… (which you didn't answer Terry!) I think it's still relevant to the original theme, inasmuch as the silly romantics amongst us might be the ones applying the, as yet still undecided, best method to store history data! This wouldn't always be the case, of course, as a sensible realist might want to quite correctly protect an investment with a similar device… please remember that this theme is not to make accusations or decide which type of person is better than the other… I think that most people are a bit of both, I just thought that it might interesting and revealing to hear what other members would do if they found themselves in the above scenario… just the usual heart v brain situation… Hah hah. I'm afraid I'd do the realist thing and get the better instrument, but I'd look back wistfully at the revered object as I left. But you're right, it does have relevance to the topic of marking instruments with their history. How will we know the provenance of any of these instruments, new or old, if we don't encourage people to keep those records? And what better place to keep them than inside where they can't be separated from the instrument in question*? I think there should be a concertina.net Concordat on the issue, setting out the recommendations of this peak body! *I guess from time-to-time, repairers have to replace action boards that have perhaps split or warped too badly to repair. I would hope at that time, they would carefully transcribe any historical markings on to the new board. [This point covered by Section 171.45.6 of the Concordat, "Preservation and transcription of historical markings".....] Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 " I think there should be a concertina.net Concordat on the issue, setting out the recommendations of this peak body!" Well said Terry.. I second that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I suppose the two concertinas are very different objects with two very different uses. Which one you fancy really depends on whether you're a collector or a player. There's one story, from the world of uilleann piping, that comes to mind: Séamus Ennis was doing a recital for a gathering of pipers. During the course of the recital he talked about his pipes, a set previously owned and played by his father. The bag of the set was notoriously leaky but Séamus praised the design, by his father, and make of the leather bag with it's intricate decorations and other features. From the back of the ranks of pipers a comment came 'yes Séamus but if they don't hold the air they're not worth a fuck..' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Ha ha ha… good story Peter! But what if you're a player and a collector…? Of course, it's possible to be a player who loves history but isn't a collector… life can be so complicated… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tradewinds Ted Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 I say it is a false choice. If the straps and a button are missing from the documented one, how can you say that it plays well and has a nice tone? There are at least two reeds that you really can't have tested, and no way to know how it feels in your hands. So I'd pick the one that works, and dream about where it might have been. Separately, the whole silly romantic in me would reject the modern data coding that is being discussed. (disgust) Handwritten notes are far more romantic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 It depends what you're shopping for and what your priorities are, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted September 27, 2014 Share Posted September 27, 2014 Tradewinds Ted hits the nail on the head. ' Pick the one that works ' . They were all designed and constructed to produce music. I see nothing romantic about an ancient Concertina that is no longer fit for purpose, irrespective of it's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted September 27, 2014 Author Share Posted September 27, 2014 Well.. all good valid views and it's interesting to hear other members' choices and why they would choose one over the other… by the way, although the scenario is just fantasy I did actually say that the straps needed replacing, not that they were missing, and it would still be possible to play and judge the overall playability and tone of a concertina with just a button missing… well, at least to a silly romantic it would be! The battered concertina is still fit for the purpose, just in need of some TLC. Remember, silly romantics rarely think logically in such a situation… but still, thanks for your views... "Separately, the whole silly romantic in me would reject the modern data coding that is being discussed. (disgust) Handwritten notes are far more romantic!" I agree with you whole-heartedly on this Ted… I would much rather have a hand-written message than some form of mechanical one, no question about it… the topic though was about too many hand-written messages, either written directly onto the wood (as in my Lachenal) or on labels, etc. cluttering up the inside of the concertina… we're really just pondering the question and asking if there might be some other way of storing data... Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm in a similar situation with a hammer dulcimer I'm restoring c.100 years old. My research on the maker includes dates, other writings and a photo of his shop as it is today. I'm also going to add before and after photos, and details of modifications - I'll need to dowel each corner to strengthen it. Far too much to fit inside the instrument in labels etc! So I'll produce a paper 'pinch' folder of details, with source pdf, photos, etc on CD. The digital storage situation is different today from the 'BBC micro' example quoted. The CD could be copied to a USB stick, and standard format files like PDF and DOC are readable on any type of PC. All that has to be done is the data moved to newer storage technology, or translated to different file formats, before its current state becomes obsolete. The original paper could even be rescanned and OCR'ed to produce a new format. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 " All that has to be done is the data moved to newer storage technology, or translated to different file formats, before its current state becomes obsolete." Thanks for that Wes… yes, this can be easily carried out, just as we have had to transfer data from videos to DVDs or cassettes to CDs or floppies to CD-Roms… no problem at all… a USB stick is fine as long as it stays with the instrument! The hammer dulcimer that you're restoring sounds interesting… would love to see a photo some time. I used to live on Exmoor close to Wheddon Cross… cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Perhaps true if you remember to do it every decade, though even then you might run into problems with Word 2023 refusing to open files made with Word 2013. BTW flash memory and CDRs both have a limited storage life, though it seems very difficult to get official figures on how long that is - it could be 15 years or 50. Might only be six months if it happens to be from a bad batch. There used to be a special gold CDR you buy for long-term archival of important data, but it was significantly more expensive than the standard type and the manufacturers discontinued it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Laban Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 During the eighties I was working in libraries where the overriding thought was that restoring, storing and maintaining 19th century (and older) newspaper collections would become too costly. To solve this problem whole collections were scanned onto microfiche (or micro film) so the information held would be available for all eternity. The original material was, in a lot of cases, discarded. Within 25 years the microfiche-slides weren't only decaying, the machines used to read them had become obsolete, maintenance, parts or the chemicals used to print material stored on the slides all becoming unavailable. Needless to say funding to scan the material into electronic form was mostly unavailable as well. All this to say I wouldn't readily trust any currently available formats to be still readable in the not too distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted October 1, 2014 Author Share Posted October 1, 2014 "All this to say I wouldn't readily trust any currently available formats to be still readable in the not too distant future." Thanks Peter… yes, I know what you mean. However, I can't help feeling that whatever method is chosen, that it must somehow be connected to the computer, however remotely that connection may be. The computer is such a fundamental and important part of just about everyone's life, and most people are knowledgeable enough to keep their software updated, etc. We basically have our finger on the pulse, so to speak, and I guess a data storage method that's linked somehow to the computer will always have our devoted attention and therefore we should be able to comfortably and regularly keep on top of any advancement in technology as it happens. Although this all sounds rather clinical and futuristic, and far, far away from the romantic implications of a hand-written message, there's no getting away from the fact that technology is moving at an incredible pace and, gentle souls sitting in their front rooms having a cup of tea and squeezing out a tune are part of it too… but the good thing is, everyone can make their own choices about preserving the history of their instrument, we're free to write pencil messages if we want, or go for something technical, and it's this that will make opening up a concertina in the future still a bit exciting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I see Peter and Alex's points of view, but my point is that digital storage is now becoming universal - it's no longer tied to a particular type of PC or digital device, and most of us have these in some form. I have a micro SD card in my phone that I can read on any PC (or phone, or tablet, or.... etc). It could easily be taped inside a concertina, or even clipped externally to part of a hand/finger strap - which might be better as it's always visible as a reminder that the data needs to be kept valid with current technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted October 2, 2014 Author Share Posted October 2, 2014 Good point Wes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry McGee Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Hmmm, it seems while we've been muttering about the merits of old and new record-keeping technologies, the "Internet of Things" has been sneaking up behind us.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyjgn5YO1Lk Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HansiRowe Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 …" the "Internet of Things" has been sneaking up behind us".... For some it's a monster that will never go away… for others the best thing since sliced bread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex_holden Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 It's kind of similar to the HistoryTag idea except the 'tag' that identifies the object so you can look up its history online is an external computer-readable design (a bit like a QR code but arguably prettier). Without the special app there's no way to look up the object, and the history disappears if the web service that's hosting it shuts down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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