eBay oddity

[PhilEdwards]

What do people make of this? The auction price is still in two figures, with <24 hours to go; perhaps bidders are scared off by the missing key (I certainly am).

[RAc]

My estimate would be that the price settles at around 200.

[RAc]

My estimate would be that the price settles at around 200.

 

close enough, I guess... ;-)

[PhilEdwards]

And another! Seems in good nick & possibly a bit of a bargain.

[RAc]

And another! Seems in good nick & possibly a bit of a bargain.

 

I dunno... THAT one does look a little suspicious to me; in particular, the gap between the action case and the bellow fitting on the left hand side looks disturbing. Plus, two or three more little things (like the missing inside paper) make me somewhat wary. MAY be a bargain for somebody willing and able to do some additional work (the comment about the tuning also hints in that direction), but imho only if it has steel reeds and all of them are in working condition. I personally wouldn't bid as much as there is on stake right now (310 BP) given the aforementioned precautions.

[Theo]

I personally wouldn't bid as much as there is on stake right now (310 BP) given the aforementioned precautions.

 

Nor would I.

 

I'm puzzled that it is categorised as "seller refurbished" but in the description the seller states "would benefit from a service". The two staements seem to be in conflict.

[PhilEdwards]

That part puzzled me, so I asked the seller:

 

What condition was it in pre-refurb? What kind of 'service' does it still

need, and is it currently in playable condition?

 

He replied:

 

All notes sound good to me but I am not a player of this

concertina

The refurb took into account springs valves pads but I cant

remember tuning

the bellows are fine and the woodwork looks good

 

Make of that what you will!

[PhilEdwards]

Cheap Wheatstones now: here and here.

 

As a newbie, I've decided not to buy anything unless either it's brand new or I can see it with my own eyes & kick the tyres, so I'm not bidding. But those prices...!

[Theo]

Cheap Wheatstones now: here and here.

 

They are only cheap if the auction finishes at a low price! Most bids on ebay are made in the closing minutes of an auction, so an apparently low price with several days to go means nothing at all.

[RAc]

Cheap Wheatstones now: here and here.

 

As a newbie, I've decided not to buy anything unless either it's brand new or I can see it with my own eyes & kick the tyres, so I'm not bidding. But those prices...!

 

I'd expect both of these to go for around 200-250 BP.

 

In your case, I strongly suggest you buy used and restored from Chris Algar or a trusted forum member. You may at the end of the day not like the sound (the same as with any concertina bought anywhere), but in terms of quality, it's a much safer bet than bidding on Ebay when you're not sure what to look out for.

 

Edit: Didn't see Theo's reply - he's right on the spot, as mentioned several times before. Prices for concertinas are normally determined literally in the last half minute of the auction (that's inherent in the ebay bidding policy and is excercised in full and bloody detail in the concertina market). If you wish to get an instrument on eBay, follow the following strategy:

 

1. Select an instrument you want to buy

2. Determine how much money you are willing to spend on it.

3. Set an alarm clock to wake you up 5 Minutes before the auction ends. Don't even bother

to look at the auction again before that time.

4. if by that time your treshold has already been crossed - forget about the auction.

5. Otherwise: Prepare your bid for exactly the amount you allotted, not less! turn off your screen

saver and keep your nerves. There is a countdown on the auction. Wait until about one minute

before it runs out. Prepare your bid so that all that is left for you to do is hit the one last

confirmation button.

6. If by that time your desired price hasn't been reached yet, take a deep breath. Wait until you

are down to about 20 seconds, then hit the confirm button.

7. Be prepared that you are still overbid.

 

That's the way it works.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Ruediger R. Asche

[cjmiller]

As a new member here, and someone looking to move up to a quality instrument, from what I've seen those concertinas have no net value at all, at least not unless you have the skills to do the work yourself.

 

By the time you buy one of those and spend the money fixing it (and it WILL need repairs and tuning, that seems to be a given), you're ahead of the game to just call the Lady in France a few posts down and buy her already restored concertina, or call Chris at Barleycorn and get one from him. Obviously if it's something rare, or it was your grandfather's or you have another valid reason for wanting one particular concertina, then it makes sense, but unless I'm missing a piece of the equation I can't see where it makes sense to buy a garden variety "found this in the attic" Wheatstone off ebay.

 

I suppose the argument could be made that you're taking a gamble no matter where you buy a concertina, and if you buy a junker on ebay at least you'll know the work has been done when you're finished with it, but I've spent hours reading the old posts on here, and I find very few complaints when people buy from a dealer, so that doesn't seem to be a huge concern.

 

Maybe I'm too negative, and if I am please tell me, but from reading the old posts I get the impression that all of these ebay concertinas have at least a £500.00 bill for repairs waiting down the road.

[Geoff Wooff]

As a new member here, and someone looking to move up to a quality instrument, from what I've seen those concertinas have no net value at all, at least not unless you have the skills to do the work yourself.

 

By the time you buy one of those and spend the money fixing it (and it WILL need repairs and tuning, that seems to be a given), you're ahead of the game to just call the Lady in France a few posts down and buy her already restored concertina, or call Chris at Barleycorn and get one from him. Obviously if it's something rare, or it was your grandfather's or you have another valid reason for wanting one particular concertina, then it makes sense, but unless I'm missing a piece of the equation I can't see where it makes sense to buy a garden variety "found this in the attic" Wheatstone off ebay.

 

I suppose the argument could be made that you're taking a gamble no matter where you buy a concertina, and if you buy a junker on ebay at least you'll know the work has been done when you're finished with it, but I've spent hours reading the old posts on here, and I find very few complaints when people buy from a dealer, so that doesn't seem to be a huge concern.

 

Maybe I'm too negative, and if I am please tell me, but from reading the old posts I get the impression that all of these ebay concertinas have at least a £500.00 bill for repairs waiting down the road.

 

If you were to spend £500 on repairs to one of these early "Tutor" EC's then you would still have a "Tutor" instrument. Almost all old concertinas need some work when purchased. The only ones I ever bought that needed nothing doing to them were those I got directly from Harry Crabb in the early '7O's. Mind you the EC I played for many years was purchased from Harry at a cost to me of two months wages!!!...., and it was worth every penny.

Geoff.

[StephenTx]

Geoff, Just exactly what do you mean by a "Tutor" instrument? What seperates a "Tutor" from whatever the next classification is? Are they made differently? Obviously they must be fairly well made to be around 100+ years? I will appreciate your enlightenment as always. Stephen

[Geoff Wooff]

Geoff, Just exactly what do you mean by a "Tutor" instrument? What seperates a "Tutor" from whatever the next classification is? Are they made differently? Obviously they must be fairly well made to be around 100+ years? I will appreciate your enlightenment as always. Stephen

 

Well.. what "we" call the tutor model is an EC where the buttons are made of bone (or Ivory) and the C scale notes are white except the C's which are red and then the Sharps and Flats are black. Whilst many of the very oldest EC's are made like this I would regard them more as a collectors item, almost always having Brass reeds,than a players instrument.

 

There were great advances made towards the end of the 19th Century in the playability of Concertinas but the 'Tutor' models appear, for the most part, to have remained at the bottom of the price structure and the least developed.

 

There may well be gem's amongst these models but I cannot recall ever having played one. Maybe if you tell us what instrument you are currently playing it might be possible to comment on whether one of these cheaper Lachenal's (or Wheatstone's) would be a step up in playability.

 

My main point above is that I feel that I would not spend £500 on the restoration of one of those 'Tutor' models when one could really gain by spending that sum restoring a better quality instrument.

[chris]

Hi

I think that to say that concertinas with bone/ivory buttons are 'tutor' instruments is, perhaps, a bit simplistic. There are some quite playable concertinas that, if judged purely on the button material, could be passed by without further investigation. A buyer needs to look at the whole instrument.

Makers like Scates, Case and Chidley for example, produced some very playable instruments which can be more than just museum pieces.

I would agree that held against a steel reeded Wheatstone from their best period they are somewhat slower - but for a beginner/ intermediate player they can be quite usable.

 

chris ( who has, and, plays an 1851 Amboyna Joseph Scates concertina with bone/ivory buttons)

 

[Geoff Wooff]

Hi

I think that to say that concertinas with bone/ivory buttons are 'tutor' instruments is, perhaps, a bit simplistic. There are some quite playable concertinas that, if judged purely on the button material, could be passed by without further investigation. A buyer needs to look at the whole instrument.

Makers like Scates, Case and Chidley for example, produced some very playable instruments which can be more than just museum pieces.

I would agree that held against a steel reeded Wheatstone from their best period they are somewhat slower - but for a beginner/ intermediate player they can be quite usable.

 

chris ( who has, and, plays an 1851 Amboyna Joseph Scates concertina with bone/ivory buttons)

 

Granted ! You are perfectly correct Chris. There were (are) some fine instruments that have the coloured Ivory buttons. Beautifully made examples exist that is true. The instrument cited at the beginning of this post is certainly not one of those. Also there are many that are not out of the top draw and some of those do show up on Ebay regularly. One has to be carefull. It was I who discovered the Ivory ended Wheatstone which now resides in the Horniman Museum... " Made and played by Rock Chidley 22nd of February 1848" says the inscription inside it.. though it did not have Ivory buttons it must have been a top of the range instrument in its day and wonderfully made it certainly was.Perhaps it should have been 'restored'... perhaps not ,but I noticed, when I was in the Horniman earlier this year that its condition was somewhat worse than I recall it being in 1975. All in all I did not feel it was going to be a Player's instrument, from my point of view at that time so I did not buy it but passed it on to a collector.

Edited October 3, 2011 by Geoff Wooff

[RAc]

Cheap Wheatstones now: here and here.

 

As a newbie, I've decided not to buy anything unless either it's brand new or I can see it with my own eyes & kick the tyres, so I'm not bidding. But those prices...!

 

I'd expect both of these to go for around 200-250 BP.

...

Edit: Didn't see Theo's reply - he's right on the spot, as mentioned several times before. Prices for concertinas are normally determined literally in the last half minute of the auction (that's inherent in the ebay bidding policy and is excercised in full and bloody detail in the concertina market). If you wish to get an instrument on eBay, follow the following strategy:

 

...

 

the auction on the first instrument has ended - as predicted at 240 with the bulk of the amount bid within the last few seconds. Looking at the bidding history of this item explains the way ebay concertina sales work better than a thousand words. As Theo pointed out, nothing whatsoever can be said about the value/winning price of the instrument before the auction is over.