Marien Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 (edited) Several concertinas in a UK auction up for grabbs at Bonhams. Lot 1 to 4,,, One is described as a Bariton - this must be something for Dirge... - it is a MacCann Duet here There are 2 Jeffries duets - in need for restauration or reed plunder I guess and the last one is a Lachenal eola - no picture - english??? Marien Edited January 29, 2011 by marien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 In the registers it looks to be one of a lot of 3 normal raised end 62 key duets so I couldn't see where baritone comes from. (It's listed as only being 22mm across apparently. Certainly not much room for bass reeds then. Ho ho) Not that it proves much but I've never come across any 'pitched' duets apart from piccolos (I was shown one last year and I have some music labelled for 'piccolo duet') My first duet was a couple of years newer than this one but otherwise similar and it did me extremely well. The edeo might be a duet too if they came from the same source; if so I'd guess a 56 or 58 from the size. It's really impressive not even quoting the key number, isn't it? And setting them as the first 4 'warm-up' lots of the sale completes my impression of how seriously Messrs. Bonhams take concertinas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg Jowaisas Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 The Jeffries "duets" look to be normal anglos as well. Although I'm sure Chris Algar and the rest of us would love to buy them at duet prices. I would take these descriptions with more than a grain of salt. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted January 29, 2011 Share Posted January 29, 2011 Also, there is no photo yet, of the Edeophone for auction, so it could be an English system one or a Maccann duet. It doesn't say what it is and they made both in the 12-sided shape. I have emailed their "specialist", Thomas Palmer, for clarification and to point out the error in lot 2, the "baritone" duet. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marien Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 Indeed The auction people do not seem to know what they are selling. I asked them about the tuning of the 2 Jeffries Anglos. If I know more I´ll share it here. Marien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Indeed The auction people do not seem to know what they are selling. I asked them about the tuning of the 2 Jeffries Anglos. If I know more I´ll share it here. Marien You'd think they do and know a bit more to help to justify the buyer's premiums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wes williams Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Also, there is no photo yet, of the Edeophone for auction, so it could be an English system one or a Maccann duet. It doesn't say what it is and they made both in the 12-sided shape. I have emailed their "specialist", Thomas Palmer, for clarification and to point out the error in lot 2, the "baritone" duet. Chris The serial 58253 suggests this is going to be an English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irene S. Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 (edited) Comment removed ... I misread the original post !! Edited January 30, 2011 by Irene S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Also, there is no photo yet, of the Edeophone for auction, so it could be an English system one or a Maccann duet. It doesn't say what it is and they made both in the 12-sided shape. I have emailed their "specialist", Thomas Palmer, for clarification and to point out the error in lot 2, the "baritone" duet. Chris The serial 58253 suggests this is going to be an English. My thoughts exactly, too. I own an Edeophone treble EC, serial number 58856, circa 1922, so this one would be a bit older, maybe dating from 1920, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 In the registers it looks to be one of a lot of 3 normal raised end 62 key duets so I couldn't see where baritone comes from. (It's listed as only being 22mm across apparently. Certainly not much room for bass reeds then. Ho ho) I expect they're just going on the size and comparing it with a baritone English concertina. Not that it proves much but I've never come across any 'pitched' duets apart from piccolos (I was shown one last year and I have some music labelled for 'piccolo duet') I used to own a lovely little piccolo Aeola, crca 1910, with amboyna sides, nickel-plated ends and gilt buttons, that had been one of Happy Jack Clevoner's "wonderful family of concertinas." It's the only one I ever saw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Not that it proves much but I've never come across any 'pitched' duets apart from piccolos (I was shown one last year and I have some music labelled for 'piccolo duet') My first duet was a couple of years newer than this one but otherwise similar and it did me extremely well. I seem to recall coming across at least a couple of "baritone" duets listed in the Wheatstone ledgers, but there certainly weren't many, and I've never seen one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marien Posted February 1, 2011 Author Share Posted February 1, 2011 Indeed The auction people do not seem to know what they are selling. I asked them about the tuning of the 2 Jeffries Anglos. If I know more I´ll share it here. Marien You'd think they do and know a bit more to help to justify the buyer's premiums. Right Steve, I found out they don't..... Marien Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 Not that it proves much but I've never come across any 'pitched' duets apart from piccolos (I was shown one last year and I have some music labelled for 'piccolo duet') My first duet was a couple of years newer than this one but otherwise similar and it did me extremely well. I seem to recall coming across at least a couple of "baritone" duets listed in the Wheatstone ledgers, but there certainly weren't many, and I've never seen one. Intuitively a baritone duet doesn't make much sense; it's not like an English where the notes are evenly divided between the ends. Because the high notes are all one side if you add extra bass notes they all go on the left and that determines the instrument's size, and deeper notes need the larger bellows anyway. I can imagine an instrument with the top of the lefthand chopped and the rh lowered accordingly but it doesn't sound very useful and (although I admit I'm having trouble getting my head round it) I can't see any reason not to buy an ordinary duet instead, which presumably was cheaper as it involved no design work. Wheatstone's would surely have talked any enquirers out of the idea on these grounds. Unless you call the edeo I have which loses some of the crossover top notes to make room to take the bass down deeper, but keeps a standard RHS a baritone? It hadn't occurred to me before. Surely not? Shame it's not an aeola; we could have looked it up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted February 1, 2011 Share Posted February 1, 2011 I seem to recall coming across at least a couple of "baritone" duets listed in the Wheatstone ledgers, but there certainly weren't many, and I've never seen one. Intuitively a baritone duet doesn't make much sense;... Maybe it doesn't make much sense to you for playing the sorts of arrangements you like to play, but there are other individuals who have quite different musical tastes and aims. I have seen a couple of Crane duets (both Aeolas) which I might classify as "tenor", though I have no idea whether Wheatstone's ever did (I don't know their serial numbers). They're both 55-button instruments that start a fourth lower than standard in both hands. I.e., the right hand range extends from the fiddle's low G (G below middle C) to C two octaves above middle C. The left hand is one octave lower than the right hand throughout, but with one less row at the top, so it tops out at G above middle C. IMO, it's an excellent combination of ranges for playing chorded fiddle tunes (among other things), since one doesn't have to cross into the left hand to play even the lowest melody notes, while the left hand provides a deeper bass than standard without going so deep as to become unwieldy. But back to "baritone": I have no time to plod through the Wheatstone ledgers looking for a couple of baritone duets, but I seem to recall that they didn't have all that many buttons... nothing approaching 80, but more like 46 or maybe even fewer. So I would guess that the purpose was not simply to provide extra low notes to lush arrangements spanning several octaves, but perhaps to provide deep chordal accompaniment to melodies played on other instruments. E.g., one could use the left hand to play individual bass notes while playing chords in the right. Assuming the definition used for Englishes and anglos -- that a "baritone" simply sounds an octave below standard for the same fingering, -- a 46-button "baritone" would have as its lowest note (in the left hand) the low C of a cello, while the right hand extends two octaves upward from G below middle C. That probably wouldn't be very useful for playing a Chopin waltz, but might be very useful in a concertina band situation or for accompanying a fiddle, flute, or voice. Because the high notes are all one side if you add extra bass notes they all go on the left and that determines the instrument's size,... It's not quite that simple. Among the "standard" Maccanns, the only one with the same lowest notes in both hands as the 46-button "baritone" I've described is the 81-button. The amount of additional weight and space for those additional 35 buttons with their associated reeds and action mechanisms is significant, even if the reeds are smaller than the 46 that are kept for the "baritone". I can't see any reason not to buy an ordinary duet instead, which presumably was cheaper as it involved no design work. Size and weight, as just mentioned, could be reasons. As for "cheaper", I think it's only in the past 50 years or so that labor (the primary ingredient in design) has become relatively more expensive than materials. Or someone might have been willing to pay extra to have the first baritone duet made, after which there would be no design cost for any subsequent ones. Wheatstone's would surely have talked any enquirers out of the idea on these grounds. Judging from the many exceptional and "special" instruments in the ledgers, I strongly doubt your "surely". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 (edited) Not that it proves much but I've never come across any 'pitched' duets apart from piccolos (I was shown one last year and I have some music labelled for 'piccolo duet') My first duet was a couple of years newer than this one but otherwise similar and it did me extremely well. I seem to recall coming across at least a couple of "baritone" duets listed in the Wheatstone ledgers, but there certainly weren't many, and I've never seen one. There's a 50 key baritone duet, no. 25352, dated 1911, listed here, in the Wheatstone Ledgers. Also, the 1915 duet pricelist here, mentions that duets can be had in treble, baritone, tenor and bass forms. Chris Edited February 2, 2011 by Chris Drinkwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Weinstein Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 My wife has a 55 Button Baritone Maccann (Wheatstone) restored by Richard Evans. S/N 25661 http://www.horniman.info/DKNSARC/SD01/PAGES/D1P0270L.HTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Blimey all of a sudden they're everywhere! I don't want one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted February 2, 2011 Share Posted February 2, 2011 Blimey all of a sudden they're everywhere! I don't want one... Neither do I. One Wheatstone baritone English is enough! Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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