Photo Needs Words: Froggy & 'sweet William'

[Robin Madge]

There was a youg frog with a box

Whose music could charm even rocks,

But Sweet William has faded,

Froggy's interest is jaded,

So he's now serenading some stocks

 

Robin Madge

[Sandy Winters]

Hi Jim, are you nit-picking again?? (Please notice huge smiley :::---)))

 

Of course you are correct about Lady Margaret and Sweet William, and Sweet Williams Ghost.

 

Barabara Allen (Sometimes 'Ellen') is Child #84. In the Bertrand Bronson collection entitled "The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads" (4 volumes, published by Princeton University Press 1959-72) the lover in question is named in many versions of Barbara Allen as young man, John Graham, young Jimmy, William Green, and Sweet William (in a version collected by Cecil Sharp between 1903-1918.

 

Willy seems to have been quite a rounder.

 

Sweet William appears in Child 106, The Famous Flower of Serving Men:

 

"I changed my name, from Fair Ellen to Sweet William"

 

One version of Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor (#73) Is called Sweet William and Fair Annie. (Collected in 1874)

 

A version of Earl Brand (#7) is titled 'Sweet William and Fair Ellen' (collected in Harlan county, Kentucky in 1920)

 

He also appears as 'Sweet Willy' in a version of Child #215, Willy Drowned in Yarrow, (Collected in Whitehope Farm, Peebleshire, 1907)

 

Are you familiar with the Bronson opus?? If not, it is must reading for any one interested in Child Ballads. As I'm sure you know there was no musical information in the original Child publication, just lyrics. Bronson collected thousands of versions of the Child ballads and transcribed the various melodies with lyrical variations. There is an abridged, one volume edition entitled "The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads" published in 1976.

 

Cheers

[Stephen Mills]

I had supposed that the frog was originally playing 'Constant Billy', but had been forced to switch to 'Billy in the Low Ground'.

 

However, the Folk Index suggests some other likely tunes:

'Polly(wog?) and Sweet William'

'1 for William'

'Sweet William's Departure' and, sadly,

'Sweet William Died'.

 

Still time for new growth, since to quote the title of one of my current favorite tunes, "Gloomy Winter's Noo Awa' ".

[John Wild]

Must have been a wild "love session"..

Not guilty, Sir!

 

- John Wild

[JimLucas]

Hi Jim, are you nit-picking again?? (Please notice huge smiley :::---)))

(Smiley on steroids?)

 

Nit picking? Naw. Just nit gathering. I lifted a couple I found lying around. I left it for you to do the proper harvest... and a good crop it was. After that bit of research, "Sweet" Willilam will never be able to run for public office.

 

Are you familiar with the Bronson opus??

I have Bronson vols. II-IV, which I found some years back at a very good price. Have wanted I & V, but with used copies currently going for $400+/volume I'm waiting for another lucky find.

 

Brilliant books, though!

 

Edited because I somehow missed out the second quote. Now it's in.

Edited June 20, 2004 by JimLucas