Worthwhile to switch from G/D to C/G anglo?

[purplecow]

I'd appreciate some advice. I began playing concertina on a twenty-button anglo in G/D. I've been considering upgrading to a nicer instrument, and in the used market, I see primarily C/G concertinas. As I understand it, I will still be able to play the tunes I've already learned on a C/G without learning new fingering (though they will be in a different key). This would, of course, make playing those tunes with others something of a challenge, but they could be relearned. More generally, having learned which notes correspond to which buttons for push and draw on a G/D instrument, I'm worried that I might be unnecessarily complicating my life by relearning new relationships on a C/G. Are there significant enough advantages of C/G to merit the switch, or is it better to hold off and wait for a used G/D (or break down and buy a new one)? Anyone have personal experience with this?

Thanks!

.

[Dave Weinstein]

I had the same question when I went from a 20 button G/D, and the advice I got was to stick with the G/D.

 

Of course, I then went and designed a new layout, and had to relearn button relationships anyway.

[L'Albatroce]

It depends on what you're playing and how you learn it. If you really don't care about the key you play the songs in, and it's a simple matter of having a not-so-great G/D versus a good-quality C/G I'd make the change and upgrade. After moving from a Stagi to a traditionally made concertina, I've found the action of the buttons and the quality of the bellows makes a real difference in my playing, aside from any questions of the reeds and their layout. If you want to play in the same keys, G and D aren't particularly difficult on the C/G box, but if you want to play a lot in A, that can be kind of a pain. In anycase, playing the same fingering (transposing the notes) will be easier than playing the same notes (transposing the fingers).

 

If you have a good ear, I would also be less scared of changing. Playing G will be just like playing D on the G/D box, so if your ear can keep things straight the muscle memory will follow with much more facility. Translating dots to fingering is much less logical, at least that's been my experience in transposing on the anglo. One way to check to see how you'd do with the switch is to transpose a tune in G into D and see how comfortable that feels.

[Daniel Hersh]

It depends on what you're playing and how you learn it. If you really don't care about the key you play the songs in, and it's a simple matter of having a not-so-great G/D versus a good-quality C/G I'd make the change and upgrade. After moving from a Stagi to a traditionally made concertina, I've found the action of the buttons and the quality of the bellows makes a real difference in my playing, aside from any questions of the reeds and their layout. If you want to play in the same keys, G and D aren't particularly difficult on the C/G box, but if you want to play a lot in A, that can be kind of a pain. In any case, playing the same fingering (transposing the notes) will be easier than playing the same notes (transposing the fingers).

 

If you have a good ear, I would also be less scared of changing. Playing G will be just like playing D on the G/D box, so if your ear can keep things straight the muscle memory will follow with much more facility. Translating dots to fingering is much less logical, at least that's been my experience in transposing on the anglo. One way to check to see how you'd do with the switch is to transpose a tune in G into D and see how comfortable that feels.

I generally agree with this. I'd add another point, though: if you look at new "hybrid" concertinas (Morse, Edgley etc.) G/D's are easy to find if you want to stick with G/D.

[JimLucas]

It depends on what you're playing and how you learn it. If you really don't care about the key you play the songs in, and it's a simple matter of having a not-so-great G/D versus a good-quality C/G I'd make the change and upgrade. After moving from a Stagi to a traditionally made concertina, I've found the action of the buttons and the quality of the bellows makes a real difference in my playing, aside from any questions of the reeds and their layout. If you want to play in the same keys, G and D aren't particularly difficult on the C/G box, but if you want to play a lot in A, that can be kind of a pain. In any case, playing the same fingering (transposing the notes) will be easier than playing the same notes (transposing the fingers).

 

If you have a good ear, I would also be less scared of changing. Playing G will be just like playing D on the G/D box, so if your ear can keep things straight the muscle memory will follow with much more facility. Translating dots to fingering is much less logical, at least that's been my experience in transposing on the anglo. One way to check to see how you'd do with the switch is to transpose a tune in G into D and see how comfortable that feels.

I generally agree with this. I'd add another point, though: if you look at new "hybrid" concertinas (Morse, Edgley etc.) G/D's are easy to find if you want to stick with G/D.

Don't neglect the issue of sound. Playing in G on a C/G will generally sound an octave higher than on a standard G/D.

 

And I'm guessing that you don't sing with your instrument, or the difference of a fifth in pitch would be a significant issue.

[Graham Collicutt]

I have had both for many years, I play mainly G/D. The biggest problem for me with C/G is I can not play tunes like beginning of Soldiers Joy half as well as I can on G/D. So if you are mainly right handed I would stick with G/D.

 

Graham

[michael sam wild]

If you want to play Irish music go for C/G 30 button or more. You can play English in C . F and G and D but not as easily as on a G/D for G and D

 

I have a C/G and love it but am also looking for a nice G/D for chords for singing and some bouncy tunes in G and D.I have a restored |wooden ended Lachenal but it's slow I may go for a modern one with accordion reeds (a 'hybrid') and somke more accidentals

 

If it came to one only for ever it would now be the best C/G I can afford with about 38 buttons but whose got 6 Grand (Stirling!)

[Daniel Hersh]

Don't neglect the issue of sound. Playing in G on a C/G will generally sound an octave higher than on a standard G/D.

That's only sort of true. The range of a 30-button Anglo is sufficient that most G tunes (or at least most of the many G tunes that I know) can be played on either a G/D or a C/G in the "standard" octave. The difference is that on a G/D you play more of the tune on the right-hand side than you would on a C/G, leaving the left hand available for accompaniment as in the English/duet/harmonic style of Anglo playing.

[geoffwright]

If you aren't really to fussed about playing chords, and would rather play just melody line, you can't beat a C/G played in octaves for volume. You will never be swamped in a session.

(The C/G will still play all the chords, but you will have to adapt your style a little)

[Mikefule]

Do you want to play mainly single note melodies, or in the harmonic style with bass and chord accompaniment?

 

For single note stuff, a lot of people play in G on a C/G box. For the harmonic style, you get more options in the lower of the two keys (that is, G on a G/D box, or C on C/G box).

 

Also, playing on the G row of a C/G can be a bit squeeky.

[david_boveri]

what sort of style do you play, and what do you aim to use your instrument for in the future? that really determines how much it matters.

[David Levine]

If you have more than just a passing interest in ITM then an Anglo C/G is the only way to go.

I don't know a single person who plays traditional Irish music on a G/D concertina.

[Anglo-Irishman]

If you have more than just a passing interest in ITM then an Anglo C/G is the only way to go.

I don't know a single person who plays traditional Irish music on a G/D concertina.

 

 

David,

That sounds as if you were equating ITM with traditional Irish music!

For me as an Irishman born and bred, you can't reduce a tradition that draws from many regions, many decades and many social contexts to a three-letter acronym. This might work for American OTM (though I doubt it!) but certainly not for the Irish musical tradition!

 

Cheers,

John

[hjcjones]

This is impossible to answer without knowing what kind of music you want to play, and in what style. The Irish style of concertina playing is based on the C/G anglo, so if that is what you want to play then go for a C/G. You will have to relearn tunes, but you will also be able to more easily incorporate the styles and decorations which are characteristic of this music played on concertina.

 

However I see from your profile that your interests are Morris and Contra, in which case I'm guessing you want to play harmonic-style and mainly in the keys of G and D. In this case, I would say definitely stick with a G/D.

 

I play both, but playing in G in harmonic style with the melody mainly on the right hand and chords on the left, can get a bit squeaky. There are ways of avoiding this, by dropping an octave, but that can make it harder to play chords. I find playing in D on a C/G a bit unsatisfactory, as I don't seem to have as much choice of chords and bass runs as I would like (although that may be that by rearranging some reeds to get notes I want in a particular direction, I seem to have ended up with all the C#s in the same direction).

 

The G/D gives me the best range of chords and bass runs in those keys, and has a lower pitch which sits nicely alongside fiddles and melodeons in these keys. However, sometimes I want the brightness of the C/G.

[michael sam wild]

As Howard points out your profile would indicate G/D to play along with fiddlers and melodeon players.

 

 

On a G/D I wouldn't just play along the inside row in the key of D but use a cross row technique based off the G row. Just as you do for G on a C/G Anglo for a wider range of chords

[m3838]

I'd appreciate some advice. I began playing concertina on a twenty-button anglo in G/D. I've been considering upgrading to a nicer instrument, and in the used market, I see primarily C/G concertinas. As I understand it, I will still be able to play the tunes I've already learned on a C/G without learning new fingering (though they will be in a different key). This would, of course, make playing those tunes with others something of a challenge, but they could be relearned. More generally, having learned which notes correspond to which buttons for push and draw on a G/D instrument, I'm worried that I might be unnecessarily complicating my life by relearning new relationships on a C/G. Are there significant enough advantages of C/G to merit the switch, or is it better to hold off and wait for a used G/D (or break down and buy a new one)? Anyone have personal experience with this?

Thanks!

.

 

 

Years ago I bought Jody's CD. He was using his C/G concertina. After listening to a half CD it began to be annoying. This screeching sound was good for one-two tracks, then it was enough. I ripped the CD and transposed it down to G/D using Audacity. It worked well and I was listening to it almost daily for a year.

On another hand once I tried very good quality English, and to my surprise high reeds sounded very well. Full bodied and loud enough, with good dynamic range and uniformity. That instrument was not for sale, it had metal ends, but without a trace of brightness, very warm and "woody". Opposite from my expectations.

[Dave Weinstein]

If you have more than just a passing interest in ITM then an Anglo C/G is the only way to go.

I don't know a single person who plays traditional Irish music on a G/D concertina.

 

In fairness, I'm not single.

[Daniel Hersh]

If you have more than just a passing interest in ITM then an Anglo C/G is the only way to go.

I don't know a single person who plays traditional Irish music on a G/D concertina.

In fairness, I'm not single.

Sabra Daly, who lives in my area, is not single either, but she plays traditional Irish music quite nicely on a G/D and has been doing it for at least the last 25 years or so.

 

And David's statement is problematic for other reasons too. A G/D has the same key layout as a C/G, just pitched a fourth lower. The fingering for playing in D on a G/D is identical to the fingering for playing in G on a C/G, the fingering for A on a G/D is identical to D on a C/G, etc. Lots of Irish tunes are in D or A and a G/D works just fine for them with whatever Irish fingering system you want to use.