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kevin toner

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Everything posted by kevin toner

  1. https://soundcloud.com/user-525630858-405274758 Enjoy, courtesy of Stuart Eydmann, the author! CD-1 has my grandad Danny with wife Jeanie. CD-2 ditto; plus my uncle Freddie on Banjo, an in-law of my Gran's; and Billy Boyd, my stepdad, on Harmonica.
  2. kevin toner

    56-key ebony-ended Aeola Baritone for sale...

    Yes, I guessed that as per my post, but didn't know the terminology used to explain the difference between extended-mode and otherwise. Great to know that there is the option to have each. I'd presume that it's model 20/20a that has the 'unrelated-to-treble' keyboard My TT has the low F3 one 5th below the middle C on the left side. Fortunately the TT range goes down to C3 on the right. I would need these extra lower notes if I were to play with either swapped keyboard sides and/or row positions. I'm still a bit unclear on how all the models compare, button/layout-position wise, until I can actually have a feel and/or compare Audio/Visual clips. So, I'll dream on for the moment. I'm communicating with Buttonbox on it and it happens to be the case that their two baritone Aeolas are of the extended variety so that it maps with my TT, but the other (non-extended) mode would be equally fine as I've said, if not better for me. ps I'm glad you've found/understand your preferred ranges too.
  3. kevin toner

    56-key ebony-ended Aeola Baritone for sale...

    conzertino, many thanks for the update and new info. The 10a is almost what I need, and not far off a Wheatstone 10b, as I need the 56 keys as a minimum. Also good to be reminded of the model 14 for sale at $6k+, an aeola equivalent of the 10b, which would again be okay indeed. I am kind of hankering for a switch in the layout that puts the middle C on the opposite side, which the 10b probably should be doing to fit within the hexagon (?) I note that the model 14 Aeola for sale has middle C on the same side (left) as my 56 key TT Aeola (model 19):- 1) as a slightly lazier option - to read the treble clef where I'm accustomed to playing it (when I'm raising an octave from the piano/vocal sheet music); 2) presumably a lighter weight; 3) maybe also cheaper; However, I wouldn't be averse to having the exact same keyboard as my TT on a slightly bigger Aeola as I'm fairly accustomed to reading an octave above, but not yet at sight-reading speed, which is also the case for me with bass clef, and especially if the quality is better matched to my TT Aeola, which is another aspiration. I won't know yet until I start testing and/or acquiring. Oh, ps: Steve Dickinson recently overhauled the TT for me and may be able to sort any Baritones out to the same standard. I need to find one first that hasn't been too tampered with (or maintainable). I asked Chris who doesn't have one as yet, but is looking out for me as well. Fingers crossed! Thanks again ps Oh, I see there's also a Glasgow based extended baritone up to C7 from possibly F2 (64 buttons) like a Wheatstone model 16 - and it's over $1k cheaper too. It could be perfect for my purposes. I'd better now make an enquiry to see if I can try it - oops, false start, it's Glasgow US presumably, hmm. pps I think I would put 'quality/maintainability' above 'range' rather than vice versa if it came to having to chose where to put limited funds... ppps: No, I see now, it was a presumably former principal of the instrument who came from Glasgow, Scotland. One of the priciest kinds of Aeola, I would imagine, and I'd guess justifying an owner's own engraving. Regarding the other instrument for sale on Buttonbox.com. the 56-key variant, I wonder in what way the model 14 is different from the model 20a - both have a similar description on the 1930 pricelist PDF and are the same price - maybe one involves the middle C being on the left and the the other on the right ('slipped', as I think Steve termed it). I can imagine such a slippage in the pattern affording a slightly more economical sizing. Both would have their merits, but in respect of the other instrument, the model 16 like 64-key Aeola going up to C7, I think I'd prefer to have the less economical, larger, sizing so that it can, practically, double as my tenor-treble when it's out getting serviced... The 56-key model 14 would of course also be able to double as a TT, but not to the same extent at the higher end.
  4. kevin toner

    56-key ebony-ended Aeola Baritone for sale...

    Please let me know if this is still available or similar. I'm on the look out for one of these rare items because low and behold, as I've anticipated for some time, I'm having to sooner or later put some of my repertoire plans on hold until I acquire a model in this range. "I only have eyes for you" has sprung up as an example song from my planned "The Thirties" songbook transcriptions and practice for English Concertina, from piano/vocal sheet music, which I'm comfortably over a 1/4 way through by transcribing/playing both clefs on mainly tenor-treble (56 key). I anticipate that around 1 in 10 songs from such standards, or probably even much less, will need the use of a slightly more extended range into the bass clef: "I only have eyes for you" as a case in point - ideally - requiring a 56 key baritone from G2 to G6; or perhaps a slightly larger model that can straddle this range a little more, but possibly at the expense of weight, although I'm not so sure anymore (going on comments). I've seen three others today too, so far in my search, which I think are all unfortunately museum based. I wouldn't mind swapping a 60 key 1897 Lachenal New Model treble to help afford a baritone aeola like this one. I was recently told that they're difficult to acquire and well sought after, as you'd expect. I have the tenor-treble equivalent (Wheatstone model 19 Aeola ) and I can therefore understand this sentimentality. There's no rush as I've plenty of songs to get through, probably years' worth. If the worst comes to the worst, then I can always transpose the key to fit to within C3 to C7 or even Bb2 upwards excluding B2 as I've fortunately that modified Eb3 duplicate that I've posted about way back on the forum. I like authenticity in the written key, so I shall leave key-transposing to the last if my wait for a similar baritone should become too long. Back to the music stand that I no longer have! ps If it weren't for my need to grow my transcription accomplishments beyond the 11 songs that I've learned, so far, maybe averaging out about 5 new songs per-annum: shared alongside necessary practice on learned songs, then I would probably publish and/or record the results my findings, but I feel that the first 5 years will be needed to continue - dedicate towards - transcribing and practising (notwithstanding that I am recording thoughts on my Google+ page as I progress). I keep myself stringing along to the plan! A couple of years down now, and hopefully many more to go.
  5. kevin toner

    How loud is the concertina?

    No construction work today, but the exacerbated noises remain non-conducive to playing/contemplation? I’ve not been practising for a couple of weeks; and I now ask myself why I bear this. The exacerbation of low frequencies can make a modest car engine sound excruciatingly severe and is not good during contemplation. It seems to have gone off upon typing these thoughts already, despite normal traffic going by, for how long I ask. I should have long cottoned on that some entity or whatever it is (let’s call it Hyperacusis) does not want me progressing on concertina. I will make a plea to myself. If sound stays like it is now I will return to progressing on the instrument. However, otherwise is simply torture, and cannot be doing me any good (?) It will simply annoy me to the point I’ll lose the rag. Who knows: if I stay off concertina for a while maybe the ugly/irritating exacerbation will give way. I think it’s starting to come back now as I finish my post. Okay: will now have to sign off until such times; and very sorry I’m taking this new approach. Yes, it’s definitely back now... I hope it’s not for long! Goodbye for now. [Oh it’s back off again, I’m not playing on/off games – no way – it has to stay off for good I’m afraid, someone’s trying to call too, so better go] Cheers again, I read in though!
  6. kevin toner

    How loud is the concertina?

    I was wrong: the bleeps were not from these. I found out that these boxes are simply noise/vibration monitors to detect/maintain acceptable/safe levels from adjacent site operations. Funnily, recently on a BBC news article on the current Royal Society exhibit, I think, there was close parallel to the rhythms and tones characteristics of the aforementioned curious bleeping, but typically I can't seem to locate it now from the BBC News website, searching under 'bubble' : I believe the scientist who explained the sounds was Dr Gianluca Memoli who can can be seen here talking in-house on the topic: http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/sensing-bubbles/ I wish I had the BBC article though because it was a near rendition of the aforementioned bleeping. In a similar manner, I've noticed my local bleeps changing tone too sometimes from beyond piccolo to cello, not per bleep, but per occasion, although it's much more likely to be at the high end. How uncanny I thought when I seen the bbc news article a week or so after my original citing of the bleeps! Last time I notice them was in the dead of night, probably within a week. Just after the witching hour when writing a post, I noticed it blatantly obvious amongst some passing laughter from outside. Perhaps they'd heard the same thing, as it's easy to detect if it occurs at quiet times, and found it funny Perhaps we can call it the Toner-Boson - ergo is it really there all around us - I'd hope not as learning concertina is difficult enough without such garnish! The day after this post when I was trying to forget what might be causing the peeps, a BBC News report on the ineffectiveness of young offenders’ electronic tags got me unconvincingly thinking for a moment ‘could that be it’ I said of course, nah! However, back on track, I’ve made progress Chris regarding the actual source, if you’re still there. I’ll come to that in a moment. Firstly folks, Other interesting parallels, better than the Dr Memoli bubbles, would be the scorelight or stickylight, in fact this might be more similar than the bubbles' sound experiments: http://www.ninjalovesdigital.com/2009/10/scorelight-by-alvaro-cassinelli.html http://www.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/perception/StickyLight/ However, today I’ve found where an instance of the bleeping is coming from, although I've had to hunt high and low for it as it rarely occurs outside the endless revving noises from various plant. Yes, they kinda sound like Morse code machines; and site personnel, up until now, have not disclosed what it was. If it’s what helps exacerbate the revving noises from the traffic or site plant, then it’s time I had a rest from ‘em eh - I want to be able to hear what I'm playing without wearing phones. That said, Yesterday I had another golden period where I could sense something of a rumbly undertone (?) give way, perhaps again something from the site, which when turned off made the busy bus/taxi avenue traffic pass by astonishingly quiet in comparison... I was therefore able to enjoy my music – too exhausted from it all to practise. The worst of the site noise is to end in around a month, so I think I’ll take my progress a little easier through this horrendously loud period. Right, no more suspense:- It appears that the recorded bleeps [as per my previous link] are likewise laser based, i.e. from an on-site laser scanner for surveying progress, presumably to maintain steelwork tolerances? They’d probably be more distracting if there weren’t construction/traffic noises to mask them. Perhaps it deliberately coincides with plant operations to mask their peepiness (?) I’ve noticed it running all day today because of its relative closeness perhaps. Although there are 2 different kinds, yards apart. As I write this, my nearby fridge is now reminding me of the laser noise, tut! I’ve taken a photo of one here and have added another video revealing the extra one being turned on by staff during my search for it: A veritable case of its Leica lens Vs my Leica lens. An edited version of the video is here. - Now some actual crazy stuff if I may impart. If you’ve got this in NYC hardlines! It shouldn’t really be happening in ‘pavement’ Glasgow, but the indoors smoking ban has its downside in downtown. On the subject of the voice throwing passer-by[ers], which I’ve briefly mentioned before. I make no apology for this little photoshoot here, capturing the back of one or two chaps from my first accidental run-in with this ageless genre. Don’t worry it’s going to be my last! Having had a bellyful of the never ending chatter act that can occur from time to time or indefinitely during practise, but which drove me up the wall in the past, when it literally sounded like one person with a rumbly voice talking all day long..., and they’re definitely throwing their voices it’d seem, I stuck my head out the window and cursed to myself looking over at the techno lads pub throng [a block away] that often have thumping house music helping to exacerbate the traffic revs when I’m trying to hear my own music, only to see one of the chatterers from below looking up before moving on and asking ‘you talkin i me’ and trying to get his bud to look up too and join in on a fight, but they moved on. I didn’t entertain in any discussion. Thank goodness I had my Leica lens to hand, albeit sharpness has been a little compromised from my wary positioning out the window... My shots reveal both chaps’ journey to what looked like the wine bar, 2 blocks away (with its throng diagonally opposite the techno pub throng) before they quickly moved on, wisely as I might’ve went down to join them for a drink as I was thinking earlier in another similar instance when I’d looked out to see the exact same slow moving ‘big talking small fries’ hesitate before entering the pub in the other direction (1 block away) as I’d been watching this time [i’d originally thought loud mouths would be excited nearby cinema goers] – more about that in a moment, that throng can be a little unnerving at times as a local*, that’s 3 generations of regular throngs there (techno-crats; yobboes; & post-war crooner gangsters/Mafiosi); ! I wonder why they were both so quickly on their mobiles after the wee run-in. There are in fact 3 throngs looking down in the other direction towards the cinema: i.e. a yobbo land pub, and a less intimidating chain of eateries, bookies, etc. that really should be sited on a piazza to allow the gatherers to permit the passer-by unabated passage. Nothing unusual there, but when I was better off [prior to the recession] and during my cinema season ticket days, getting to the cinema on the next block up meant walking on the road. On some occasions when I thought I could use the pavement a couple of blocks/gals would comically walk backwards into my path. It’s the one good thing about not having the season ticket: no navigating pavement precincts! *here’s a video of them [literally] halfway through an advert. I’m sure the pavement blocking is all good hearted stuff: In my rather restrained noise gallery are some other images I’d taken showing some more typified noise sources: enjoy! Apologies if incoherent, but I mustn't bottle it up and get such big issues off my chest. They call today ‘Fair Monday’ in Glasgow.
  7. I agree, apprehensively as I'm not taking guitar any further than I perhaps ought to in terms of Classical. I'm yet discovering that the key to overcoming the likes of Roberton's arrangement of 'Mingulay Boat Song' on TT EC is to discover what the best hand orientation is for the chosen fingering and vice versa. I'm sure this is something in common with guitar. It's not a score that's flooded with notes, but sometimes I find myself straining and missing the target because my hand orientation is wrongly either too open or closed at any given time - it has to be perfect. The same perfection I assume might also be key to overcoming some classical guitar exercises. I must say I'm nervous about losing ambidexterity as guitar is so intensively different per hand in comparison to other stringed instruments, piano being otherwise more correlative. I'd however agree/contend that the left hand work on a guitar might be more closely associated with [at least] the English Concertina (EC) than piano fingering is.
  8. kevin toner

    How loud is the concertina?

    Thanks Chris again, headphones actually do take the edge off the noisier episodes. I don't know what I'd do without them. I wish I could record what I'm hearing though, but I'd need a y connector for my phones and to simultaneously connect to a recorder. Alas my laptop is not a great recorder of live sound from the concertina despite having a great mike/mixer/amp set up! I was wrong: the bleeps were not from these. I found out that these boxes are simply noise/vibration monitors to detect/maintain acceptable/safe levels from adjacent site operations. Funnily, recently on a BBC news article on the current Royal Society exhibit, I think, there was close parallel to the rhythms and tones characteristics of the aforementioned curious bleeping, but typically I can't seem to locate it now from the BBC News website, searching under 'bubble' : I believe the scientist who explained the sounds was Dr Gianluca Memoli who can can be seen here talking in-house on the topic: http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/sensing-bubbles/ I wish I had the BBC article though because it was a near rendition of the aforementioned bleeping. In a similar manner, I've noticed my local bleeps changing tone too sometimes from beyond piccolo to cello, not per bleep, but per occasion, although it's much more likely to be at the high end. How uncanny I thought when I seen the bbc news article a week or so after my original citing of the bleeps! Last time I notice them was in the dead of night, probably within a week. Just after the witching hour when writing a post, I noticed it blatantly obvious amongst some passing laughter from outside. Perhaps they'd heard the same thing, as it's easy to detect if it occurs at quiet times, and found it funny Perhaps we can call it the Toner-Boson - ergo is it really there all around us - I'd hope not as learning concertina is difficult enough without such garnish!
  9. kevin toner

    Bellows

    Indeed! In this example here with 3 long and deep extended semibreves, I'd have to play these in 3 bellow actions rather than 2 if my T-T EC bellows weren't 8-fold. I'm not sure if I'd get away with a 6-fold equivalent without trying. This goes into my notations 'hall of fame' for being "...so unkind" ergo to us concertinists The more I look into this song "Memories of You" as a testbed, the more incidentals I find! Thanks Brian101 for helping me spot this particular one.
  10. As mentioned previously on another thread/forum, I’ve not yet got round to using recording as a means of refining practise, but I do hope to produce clear sound recordings very shortly as I quickly settle into a more comfortable method of playing. I’ve meanwhile stumbled on additional revelations on technique in tandem with revisiting the sheet music rather than lazily by memory. This is keeping me going although I still anticipate occasional recordings becoming a form of practise diagnosis too, soon! Since my last post of ‘Memories of You’ on the music discussion forum, I feel like I’ve had 50 or so pivotal self-learned lessons. Even as I speak I am constantly assessing everything I’m doing until I am entirely comfortable. I anticipate great progress on ‘Winter Wonderland’ and look forward to breaking freshly into each of the many alluring 1930s jazz standards and the likes. This is a very satisfying, fairly transitional, stage to be at in my development. Looking forward to much progress! My advocacy of thumbs through has now been reinforced with yet another unusual advocacy [ie for me] for hand straps as well. I would never in my wildest dreams have thought I’d be approaching the technique of my Granddad due to the constrictions involved. How on earth am I now playing bass notes fluently on T-T with thumbs fully through and hands tightened/constricted with straps? Beats me! I’m now becoming comfortable with all of “MoY” on the Allegro side of Moderato, since making these decisions to strap up, although now getting used to a few fingering changes including one reverted change having tried out an arpeggiated chord placement change to no avail over the last 2 months – the problem with the latter being the ‘weak interdependency of the 3rd finger on lowest notes’ despite hand comfort. Here’s a list of recent findings as I develop. 1. Listening &/or recalling Granddad playing and discussing; 2. Thumbs fully through straps 3. Hand straps on (starting loose and working towards tighter as dexterity improves – I’ve still got a few notches before I reach the tightness Granddad was at – the mark on the straps are still there and I’m glad I decided to get them back on the concertina): the obvious advantage is increased control but greater discovery/cognisance of the bellows...; 4. Lower shoulders at difficult passages to release stiffness and promote the following: 5. use/experiment with hand positioning before scrunching up shoulders and using unnecessary upper arm work. Vertical & horizontal rotation of the wrist, and door handle action turning from forearm too: can all unlock difficulties of reach. As mentioned above, getting the right leverage can sometimes beat comfortable hand configurations e.g. in my case, if too much demand put on the aforementioned interdependency weakness of the 3rd finger at high tempo arpeggiated chordings; 6. Revisit music score and discover or search for the intention of the writers if it’s there and worthwhile. The value of notes can be over/under-estimated during familiarisation/s especially if a flurry of notes are involved as in piano scores. Also, amazing progress going on in the Roberton scores in particular! Mairi’s Wedding; Come Along; Westering Home; Air Falalalo; Mingulay Boat Song.
  11. kevin toner

    bass/treble clefs piano-score practise

    I keep saying I’m almost there with “Memories of You” as I plan to record it again. Please forgive me. I’ve discovered another finger weakness matter, which might like some 3rd fingering be a common trait. I’ve been struggling with an instantaneous pinky travel to the 2nd arpeggiated chord in the chorus bridge. I can’t overcome this (at moderato tempo) no matter how long I try to practice the difficulty out. I hit the target 25%; 50% finding the button side; & 25% missing it completely. I’ve therefore adopted another approach: ergo to substitute with the 3rd, which necessitates a Blake-ian pivot using my index momentarily onto 2 buttons on the following note. It’s not the only place in the score where such a Blake-ian move is called for. Now back to why I’ve changed to this:- My pinkie struggled to find the low C (2nd column RHS and therefore incidentally one of the lowest buttons on the T-T) by travelling it from the outer row Bb (4th column RHS). This is because the change has to be instant and the pinkie mechanics (for me) aren’t capable of it while thumbs are fully through. It wouldn’t be a problem on a B-T where the low C is raised a row. I know this as there hadn’t been a problem by playing experimentally a 5th (or row) up. Furthermore, I use the pinky for a similar action on the 1st bar of the verse (at the lowest row on the LHS) and it’s no problem. So an extra row down (which the RHS has) is where the breaking point is for me (on this particular pinky action) and so I will be rememorizing the problem chord/bar the other aforementioned way. I now know that for a T-T I can be expecting too much of the pinkie to do such [travelling] gymnastics on and off the confines of the low C & C#. I will be substituting any more of these that I find on other songs with a 3rd (ring) finger. Funnily as per a previous post, I conversely found that I had to substitute the other way round (opting for pinkie instead) for the preceding arpeggiated chord that launches the bridge due to the weakness of the 3rd finger. The mechanics of movement are quite different despite being the same button. My endurances (on using the wrong fingers) prior to arriving at these 2 lessons were not quite in vain as I’ve really strengthened up my pinkie & 3rd fingers as a result. I must now familiarise on the chosen method. It’s a million times easier, actually anyway, nothwithstanding the re-memorisation required. I’ve also discovered that my laptop is terrible for sound recording: so for the time being I’ll have to settle for the mono compact camera as before, but will try converting it to a reasonable HQ when I get round to recording. I’m now almost entirely comfortable with all the chosen methods and shan’t be long in settling in. One more thing though, although not being a great problem. As I mentioned on the other bass clef practise post, ‘notes-or-clef specific’ accents (excluding staccato/legato) cannot be produced on concertina like piano. This is largely not a big issue as I can see from my 30s songbook, but on “MoY” 50% of bars on the verse are affected to the extent that layering will be necessary to record an entirely Blake-ian rendition. Layering is something I fear we shouldn’t be shying away from as there's different qualities to be found in playing clefs separately. Duetting is another way round it. Blake indeed forces us on “MoY” to treat the clefs as separate entities on 50% of the verses... I wonder how many pianists partake though. I’m sure for this 50% of the bars that if Blake heard the 2 clefs being played separately in EC by 2 players (one basically vamping) he’d be glad that his score was shaped in this way.
  12. kevin toner

    What we all look like - take 2

    I've added a caption on my granddad's wartime photo here. Interesting how he'd amazing strength in his fingers from his vocation. Another similar route to finger strength would be mountaineering. I wonder if such strength made a difference to his incredible concertina playing ability (?)
  13. kevin toner

    bass clef practic music

    Baritone-Trebles appear to be a 1920 onwards development in Wheatstone's pricelists specific to Aeloas, models 14 to 16, which are undoubtedly different from the original Baritone configuration, as follows. I have a suspicion that the model 20a (56k) simply named a "Baritone", but with the exact same range as the model 14 (56k) named a Baritone-Treble, is based on the older or formative Baritone layout, which appears to be of an opposite handedness to the treble orientated tenors and later developed baritone-trebles. Simple really! So Wheatstone probably [economically] trialled/marketed the formative Baritones by swapping the keys over without adapting the standard EC button patterns per side; then probably within a couple of decades later had evolved a Baritone that's sides would be altered without swapping the keys, ergo because lazy people like me, but with lots of cash, would be able to advance on their ranges without much cerebral effort. Both the 56k Baritone and Baritone-Treble Aeloas (of the exact same range) appeared to be sold at the same price over the 1920s/30s, varying merely in handedness and in the slightly different outline of buttons. This sequence of development also makes sense. Hopefully that puts the B-T [aka TED] question finally to bed. If I ever see a picture of an actual model 20/20a Aeola (i.e. Baritone, not TED or B-T), I'd be able to tell for sure. Shelly, can you post an image or the serial No. of your supposed TED? ps: I don't know if similar developments have occurred in reverse at the high piccolo end of the spectrum, but that's not for this post, which is discussing bass clef matters. My hunch is that the EC is really centred mostly on middle C being on the LHS, hence the eventual need to evolve a hybrid Baritone.
  14. kevin toner

    As new baritone

    Yes true, the red button here is a 'middle C' (C4), but I'd rather play this as a C5 since I'm a sight reader and read from the stave; and therefore prefer to feel for 'middle C' on the LHS handing instead! Simple yes! The complex side might be that we can pretend its C5 C4 is a C4 C5, but then in doing so we'd lose the advantage of having those extra few more bass notes that we hanker for when trying to interpret bass clef in piano score work. You're right, in that I'd need to try one first to determine whether or not swapping hands from what I'm used to will be taxing. I trust it might be, but I really wouldn't know yet before trying.
  15. kevin toner

    bass clef practic music

    Shelly, I'm actually in two minds over this now! If only I had my Granddad's draughts (chequers) prowess! He was the last one to do my T-T justice, before him his dad. Alas, chess is no good here, otherwise I wouldn't fuss about acquiring a standard B-T like your's. STET. I hasten to think what it'd be like to mentally swap hands. Probably like going from right hand to left hand guitar work in a way. I can't believe I was actually trying that earlier today on my uke for the first time! I'd better stick to model 19s (TTs) and 16s (BTs) [ps: and models 14s (BTs) to a lesser extent] for the time being, i.e. the treble-tenors' and treble-baritones' family. I was wondering about how you might feel starting out on a standard B-T first and having to think in different hands if swapping over to treble proper? Actually, c/o an email by Geoff, I now know the layout patterns of the model 16 B-T relative to other B-Ts: I was correct regarding the mod 16, but wrong regarding the standard B-t layouts. Apparently, there'd be no need to swap hands as first imagined! The slightly different outline of button areas that B-Ts have was what was throwing me. I suspected this previously, but got carried away with a much simpler assumption, not citing more than one possibility, i.e. to an already complicated subject. So, glad that's cleared up then. The implication is that I'd be less averse than previously to normal (non model 16) B-T's. I might still find the slightly varied outline of buttons a little alien to begin with. I imagine, for me, that some of the songs in my repertoire might necessitate a B-T even although "Memories of You" has proven to be a thoroughly T-T suited piece... Please excuse my Stet. in bold above on my original comment. It does so happen that there is actually a further model of Baritone within the same range as the model 14/16 B-Ts that does indeed swap the sides over as I'd first surmised, which you might have a variant of as follows [i.e. if yours is a model 20]. These are the model 9/9a/10/10a (48k) or 10b (56k). A standard one has been posted on Ebay for 1.2k and is currently being discussed on the 'Buy & Sell' forum. Possibly the model 20 Baritone is the Aeola equivalent of these, i.e. the model 20 (48k) and 20a (56k), which might also mean an opposite handedness from the treble & "B-T" families proper. The original Wheatstone pricelists state such opposite handed models as simply Baritones rather than Baritone-Trebles despite having the exact same range. Therefore Shelly you might well actually have the opposite handing to the B-T family of models. Again, one of the ways you'd be able to tell us is by saying what side your 'middle C' is on. Again, "learning the hard way as it were", but scholarly so ! The Ebay example looks like a model 9 (walnut 48k)!
  16. kevin toner

    As new baritone

    So this is what a Baritone layout looks like proper. I suppose this would be the model 20 9, which looks like it swaps the sides so that middle C transfers onto the RHS, i.e. unlike the slightly different model 14 Baritone-Treble where middle C remains on the LHS. I first surmised this on a different post prior to Geoff showing me the actual model 14 and 16 layouts of the [variant] Baritone-Trebles. I'm glad I've now seen the evidence of what I'd first surmised: that standard Baritones would have to swap sides to keep to the standard button layouts to which model 14 B-Ts digress. I'll need to update my scholarly entry on the teaching forum post I'd replied to. Will do in a moment, where there's an interesting discussion going on RE the differences in EC button layouts. I'd personally feel inclined to avoid the model 20/20a layouts 9s/10s [possibly model 20/20a Aeola equivalents too] due to the cerebral difficulty in swapping hands after acclimatising to the middle C on the LHS. If this is indeed the model 9 (walnut 48k) then it's coming in at quite a bargain as I'd have thought 1.6k would be more correct, based on second hand. However if this really is as good as new then you x2 that figure to 3.2k, in my opinion. Would this be right thereabouts, although perhaps there's an intermediate value between 1) good-as-new and 2) good-condition. Such as perhaps reconditioned or recently-overhauled, which might be the good-condition price plus the cost of overhaul (?)
  17. kevin toner

    reading music

    But we don't know that "my next life" plays the EC. I used the word "notwithstanding" as other worthwhile comments were made. In the absence of actual tutorials, a plethora of music theory websites online can be sourced for a very basic grounding, otherwise a hard copy of a music theory encyclopaedia or manual would be handy, injury permitting. A first port of call might be the music pages at the back of a dictionary. The 1988 ('89 reprint) Chambers/Cambridge "Chambers English Dictionary" - formerly the "Chambers's C20th Dictionary" ('01) - has such! [an aside: I asked my gran for this for my 20th in 1990; and asked her for the 1991 Oxford Thesaurus 2nd Ed (1997) for my 30th knowing how great the former had been as a decadal birthday present.]. Anyone else's dictionaries have the same?
  18. kevin toner

    bass clef practic music

    NB in exercise 74a ("Romance" by Beethoven) of Frank Butler's "Concertina" tutor there's an accent above the 4th beat in the 2nd bar, which obviously has to apply to both the very low note and the high note, which have to play simultaneously. So my aforementioned observation on concertinas not being able to accent notes separately within a chord is basically discussed here and again in the Mozartian exercise 75. Looking at my '30s songbook, no transcribers appear to go beyond separating on a per clef basis, i.e. they invariably don't - as Butler shows in E74a for ECs - stipulate which of the 2 (or more) notes should be accented in spite of the notes doing very different things. So, although the piano is capable of accenting on a per note basis: scores invariably don't go beyond a per clef basis when separating accents. I guess it's the pianists' choice to single out any particular keys they wish to accent more than others. The transcriber therefore merely indicates where attention is (or might be) due. I've scanned both the Butler example here and a classic example from "Stormy Weather" here where the transcriber leaves it to the pianist, which note/s to accent. That puts a little less weight on the concertinist wishing to play to the tee or by the letter. I still contend that a minimal degree of layering will be necessary on "Memories of You" to make it feel as intended despite the do-ability of doing it in a oner. "I only have eyes for you" looks like it will be likewise, but transcribed pieces are generally not as fussy. I understand why Blake's "MoY" is so fussy after seeing/hearing his own rendition on his 96th birthday on YouTube: ergo a further indication he was his own transcriber like McHugh (one of his contemporaries). The treble clef of he verse should be layered in separately so that the accented bass clef notes do not interfere with the beautiful sounding fluency of the unaccented treble clef, i.e. again for 50% of the verse. An aside: Butler has indeed wet my appetite for classical, e.g. violin part for Mozart's K376, but that's another post topic, later! All I would say here on the topic at the moment is that for classical I most certainly won't be doctoring the pianoforte bass clef for EC. I don't know about anyone else, but while I'm playing the violin section I can mentally feel the pianoforte accompaniment as I play, through a familiarity of listening to published recordings. I don't know what it is about classical, where you don't have to listen too many times to cerebrally embed the different parts/instruments' sections, i.e. orchestration in a word. No one really dares to doctor the classics (official transcriptions) as generations pass. I suppose this helps in the learning of classical work. All one needs then is a pianist to accompany your soloing provided the (occasionally long) intervals of silence have also been well practised.
  19. kevin toner

    reading music

    Notwithstanding the above comments, I would concur that the Frank Butler tutor is the very best for EC and will be perhaps forever more! I'll be posting an observation from it in a moment on Shelly's 'Bass clef' practise post, which flags up a minor issue on some piano pieces.
  20. kevin toner

    bass clef practic music

    I still concur with the above, but have something rather disheartening to report. An aside: I think whoever's been unnerving me by bouncing the structure where I'm sitting writing doesn't like the fact I'm now wired up and able to hear my instrument properly (in amongst the hellish site noises) because when the shop opened the thumps were 1 per 1-4mins, which I could barely feel because of where I'm positioned, but conversely as I write this I'm feeling them as very unnerving although they've stopped in the last 10 20 30 40 50mins - great - it's been generally much less frequent over the last month compared with 1 March '12 through to mid May, but is still unacceptable, I wish they'd take their business elsewhere, but hopefully not below another studious person. I think I now know why my Granddad, Danny, always favoured the prowess of a piano over that of the concertina "ye canny beet the piana", as often said following an occasional performance during parties or when 1-to-1 with him discussing concertina! Here goes, although this is something I've known in the back of my mind, but not wanting to accept: I appreciate how no one on the forum has mentioned the following issue perhaps not to stop me short of what I've been tackling, but in piano scores it appears that accenting notes are often prescribed in one of three ways, of which one is doable on concertina i.e. when both clefs are to be accented rather than one or the other. Unlike the Piano the concertina can't hit notes harder (accent) than other notes when more than one note is depressed without all the notes being accented Fortunately this does not affect clef specific legato/staccato articulation when playing both clefs together "Memories of You" has indeed been an excellent testbed. The chorus is almost unaffected ergo with unified accents per clef per bar, but 50% of the verse is a different kettle of fish where the clefs are doing very different things. I can therefore pursue my dilemma with a number of approaches: 1) accept that a degree of double layering is necessary (I might want to multi-layer voice/guitar/uke anyway - not in my current noise environment though, unless perhaps at 3am; this approach might also get me thinking about acquiring a model 16 B-T or an actual bass depending on their tone compatibility) - the degree of which depends on the percentage factor: i.e. if a piece is 50% compatible I'd choose to learn bass/treble together for the compatible bars, but if the piece demands that 75% or more must be played independently (clef-wise) then I'd simply revert back to single stave reading; 2) ignore such nuances when they occur by either: i) accenting both clefs when they're not doing such different things; or ii) accenting neither i.e. when prompted to do so. (the latter approach could permit minimal layering afterwards to correct, perhaps to give the concertinist a greater sense of achievement than otherwise working optimally as layerist.); 3) find my clone to assist when/where required (if I were a Fayre Sister then problem solved!...). I think 1 & 2 will have their place in my development in the absence of 3. The piano scores I'm going to persevere with are simply too intoxicating to give up on over a mere technicality. And I though a recording of my rendition of "MoY" next week would be a simple affair, silly me!
  21. kevin toner

    How loud is the concertina?

    No thanks Chris, even if you were to pay me to, or be able to make one as authentically as possible! ps Perhaps no other concertina beats the sound of a 1910s risen metal ended Wheatstone Aeola, which I've happened to inherit. pps Miking it up to an amp means I've not inherited it in vain. It sounds tremendously fantastic when an adequate amount of pressure is applied: as if no service is necessary really, i.e. at this particular stage in my development.
  22. kevin toner

    How loud is the concertina?

    Thanks John, I completely agree with that, apologies for misleading! ps Jody, On the distraction side there's a certain song of great significance (possibly Music Hall era) often credited as by Anonymous that I should mention, which implies that frustration from distraction is again nothing new! Although forgive me for taking the following angle. The song probably has nothing to do with distraction whatsoever. Which song, where and when? Imagine trying to write Ulysees with Molly Malone crying outside your chosen abode. Yes it's the 1800s Dublin anthem "Cockles and Mussels". Dublin is of course now UNESCO City of Literature. Perhaps creativity/culture truly prevails if and when its anthems get the upper hand... The Music Hall era struggled to survive apparently. If Harry Lauder (nb album: The First Knight Of The Music Hall) was its first knight then perhaps we can safely say Mercury was its last! Sorry for going off on a tangent to the topic: On with the show, if you can, and you're not me...; Oh, my amp is working wonders for me now: as without it I'd be at a loss, i.e. with what are the modern day 'cockles and mussels' and Molly Malones of this world, as I haven't got the ability to turn a blind ear. At night time, if and when it's quiet enough, I'll resort to silent playing as I'm concious of the sound: It's ironic that the only time I'll be fully airing is: 1) when suped up cars are going down the nearby dead-end at the back of the rly stn to hang out anywhere between my flat and the Buchanan Galleries Depot [un-suped cars even skid out here when leaving presumably after picking up stn travellers or breaching the "buses/taxis only" lanes as a non-motorway shortcut through town - why, I ask, as the Glasgow IRR is the world's tightest - beats me] amongst occasional convoys of echoing buses/taxis emergency vehicles etc.; 2) during never-ending construction works between periods of resurgent faulty alarms; _;_ ;_ ;_ ; etc.] I'll fill in the blanks another time! As my instrument hasn't been serviced in over two decades this means much playing or notes will simply cut out. Jody, as you mentioned before, I'm with you in thinking that you really need to hear something when practising "silently" as it were; as I too cannot warm to playing complete silence, i.e. merely pressing buttons, but not airing with applied using zero bellows pressure! Although, again said, I do do this simply to mentally map which buttons I've to memorise, then later proceed in normal play to air the notes.
  23. kevin toner

    The Thirties

    Before I begin assessing "Sophisticated Lady" next week, I may take a look at a 21st LWMCo. number naturally not included in THE THIRTIES series [nor in THE TWENTIES although it may appear in a Chappell&Co version if there is one in addition to EMI's(?)] entitled "Shepherd of the hills" 1927 by the man himself Lawrence Wright (as Horatio Nicholls), perhaps one of his best. "You Do Something to Me" 1929 appears (at a point) to latch on to this number's last phrase of the verses; in the same way that Porter's "Get out of town" 1938 chorus/refrain seems to evoke the chorus of "Once in a While" 1937 - If Porter likes them, then so do I! "SotH" can be found in Vol 1 of LWMCO's "songs the World Sings" series, which I recently bought because it has additional Uke tablature on the 20 LWMCo. numbers that were chosen for THE THIRTIES Decades Series. I'll post all the song lists (VOLs 1-3) on a separate post later, although they're all Googleable. Remember Australians to get practising that "Winter Wonderland" from this Thursday 21 June. I may be doing so too even as a northern hemispherian! ps: on initial inspection "SotH" 1927 largely suits my modified T-T (with the extra Bb) but will entail a B-T at the end of the day:- This is because to launch the anticipated Porter-esque phrase at the words "I" & "she" an uncompromising A2 is involved. Furthermore at the bit on that phrase that's roughly like Porter's (year later) "YdStM" ending at "...is su-preme" & "been in vain" is where an F is hit twice, this will entail the necessity of a model 16 B-T. Now what price are those Model 16s again? Yes, I'd prefer to leave this one for the moment...
  24. kevin toner

    The Thirties

    Here are two great lists I'd love to share: I’m not sure about the latter one, which in my way of looking at it is a disguise of the former! I may become interested in the 151pp edition, which is practically identical (in all aspects) except for the non-Lawrence Wright Music Co. Songs, which comprise exactly 20 out of 40 scores that vary as per quite different publishers' sets. I’m surprised that the Glasgow’s Mitchell library has quite a few copies of the latter, but not the former to my knowledge. The former is luckily with the family. It’s what’d got me hooked I have to say, not because of the first LWMCo 20 songs, but also because of the remainder. What I find most odd is that, in the edition that I have (the 129pp ed.), the degree of melancholy appears to climax towards the last song, ergo giving the impression of WWII getting closer, notwithstanding that “Stormy Weather” & “Mood Indigo” are in the first half ergo so as not to split up the publishers’ sets. Have a look at the list for an impression, i.e. the former one that I think’s better at this stage! Having seen the 151pp Ed., I’m not that convinced that it’ll have the same magic/sequence of treasures, but I’ll be sampling nonetheless later as I cast my eye onto other future things. I expect to find the untried ones equally captivating. I bet many in the forum have a favourite on the lists. [And by the way! One more interesting thing! The blemished note that I found, conveniently in EC terms, at the third bar of the verse to “Memories of You” is scanned/circled here (and also as first discussed here at post #11) was luckily in this book [both Eds] out of all the others that I’d seen at the library. So critical was that blemish!] A veritable feast of photos; captions/quotes; and of course the sheet music scores. Here's what the front cover of the book states: It started with dole queues and ended with marching columns. But throughout those grim years, people never stopped singing. These are some of their favourite tunes. The Nineteen Thirties were tough, but they were always tuneful. Anyway here are the variant two lists in roughly alphabetical orders, I'll reply with the actual sequence list [of mine's] in a moment: A: THE THIRTIES : The Depression Decade (the decades series) ISBN: 0860012417 9780860012412 EMI Music Publishing Ltd. 129 p. : ill., music 28 cm. Series Title: Decades series. designed by Ken Carroll, text edited by Jonathon Green art directed by Pearce Marchbank. 1977 A-tisket a-tasket Auf wiedersehen my dear Back to those happy days Basin Street blues A Bench in the park Between the devil and the deep blue sea Blue moon Careless love The Clouds will soon roll by Exactly like you For all we know (Coots 1934) Harbour lights Have you ever been lonely I can dream can't I I only have eyes for you I surrender dear Ida (Sweet as apple cider) It happened in Monterey It's foolish - but it's fun Lady of Spain Lazybones Little white lies Love is the sweetest thing Lovely lady Lullaby of Broadway Marta (rambling rose of the wildwood) Memories of you Mood indigo On the sunny side of the street Once in a while Red sails in the sunset Serenade in the night So deep is the night Song of the dawn Sophisticated lady Star dust Stormy weather Sweet and lovely When it's sleepy time down south Who's taking you home to-night? B: THE THIRTIES : The Depression Decade (the decades series) ISBN: 0860012417 9780860012412 Chappell & Co Limited (?) 151 p. : ill., music 31 cm. Series Title: Decades series. text edited by Jonathon Green art directed by Pearce Marchbank. 1977 A bench in the park Auf Wiedersehen my dear Back to those happy days Basin Street blues Between the devil & the deep blue sea Easy to love Exactly like you Falling in love with love Good-bye Goody-goody Have you ever been lonely I apologise I didn't know what time it was I'll walk beside you In the still of the night Is it true what they say about Dixie? I surrender, dear Lazybones Let's call the whole thing off Little white lies Mad about the boy Marta Memories of you Mood indigo My funny Valentine On the sunny side of the street September song Someday I’ll find you Song of the dawn Sophisticated lady Star Dust Stay as sweet as you are Stormy weather The clouds will soon roll by The lady is a tramp The night is young and you're so beautiful They can't take that away from me When it's sleepy time down South Wish me luck as you wave me good-bye You are my heart's delight.
  25. kevin toner

    bass clef practic music

    Shelly, I'm actually in two minds over this now! If only I had my Granddad's draughts (chequers) prowess! He was the last one to do my T-T justice, before him his dad. Alas, chess is no good here, otherwise I wouldn't fuss about acquiring a standard B-T like your's. I hasten to think what it'd be like to mentally swap hands. Probably like going from right hand to left hand guitar work in a way. I can't believe I was actually trying that earlier today on my uke for the first time! I'd better stick to model 19s and 16s for the time being. I was wondering about how you might feel starting out on a standard B-T first and having to think in different hands if swapping over to treble proper? Actually, c/o an email by Geoff, I now know the layout patterns of the model 16 B-T relative to other B-Ts: I was correct regarding the mod 16, but wrong regarding the standard B-t layouts. Apparently, there'd be no need to swap hands as first imagined! The slightly different outline of button areas that B-Ts have was what was throwing me. I suspected this previously, but got carried away with a much simpler assumption, not citing more than one possibility, i.e. to an already complicated subject. So, glad that's cleared up then. The implication is that I'd be less averse than previously to normal (non model 16) B-T's. I might still find the slightly varied outline of buttons a little alien to begin with. I imagine, for me, that some of the songs in my repertoire might necessitate a B-T even although "Memories of You" has proven to be a thoroughly T-T suited piece. More on my repertoire in a moment, in the tunes forum, as I've bought the entire LWM "Songs the World Sings" series!
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