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kevin toner

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    concertina use and practice / recordings / repair and maintenence / science / history / etc.
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Chatty concertinist

Chatty concertinist (4/6)

  1. Sorry for not replying until now; I hadn't been checking my posts. Please find these attached as requested. Thanks for your interest Kevin [ps: for the avoidance of doubt the matrix no. for 'A Sunday Parade 'is CAR 1033, which is clearly etched on the shellac surface runout-end (despite reading a blotchy 1088 or 83 on the actual label itself)]
  2. I've had a listen to the wav file and it's definitely much more concertina (and English Concertina sounding too) than any other kind of reed/bellows instrument. Apologies it's so much in the background and of mp3 quality for the time being! [edit: Forget it being my granddad, it seems too rehearsed for the set, but that said there was quite a population of musicians at this time in tune with each other...]
  3. I've had another listen to this and think there is slim likelihood of concertina, unless it's separately background vamping at times. I think I'm imagining this and wonder if I should delete this post - It's probable that it is a rehearsed accordionist or even other button box player in the background if not the main accordionist switching voicing and volume controls etc. If I delete in due course soon - it's because of uncertainty and so on. I believe this particular forum topic should always have concertina at the very least (and I don't think there's enough info to verify here! so sorry for posting and needing probably to delete). ps It's funny that in my a recent previous post, the concertina sound similarities (in pre-war bands/orchestras) was the very least also being discussed. No worries anyway!
  4. Services Calling: Tea for Two; etc. (WWII transcription discs) Starting at around 21:29 The harp is leading here, but do I detect a bit of English Concertina in the background, which is neither the billed star accordionist nor harmonicists? The latter does double for drums, but hmm, I wonder who’d be playing the tini in there (?) It adds a real nice sweet touch to augment an already marvellous wee concert I don’t think it’s a different kind of button-box; tho it doesn’t matter – it’s an absolutely lovely piece at a difficult time (on my actual wav/raw file you can actually hear geese in the background at a point I think enjoying the music too). It has some great musicians from around the world with Dutch roots I was thoroughly enjoying this 3-disc treat anyway, and then even more so when it seems like my Granddad and dropped by to do a little vamping in the background for the next few numbers. It’s a long shot, but it does sound like him, and he was stationed not greatly far away from this base; entertaining troops and locals in nearby counties or vicinity. Apparently he was a real hit - and him and acquaintances made some easy money too doing requests and so forth (he played and others went round with the bonnet/cap collecting handsomely, I think), but narrowly escaping a court marshal if it weren’t for the superior’s approval of music, I can’t quite remember the exactitudes of all the wee stories... There is a memoirs book about the base that could shed more clues about life there. It was a British base that the Royal Netherlands Brigade took over. - As I listen again, I think the accordionist has possibly retreated to the background away from mikes and harmonising with the non-piano side of the accordion, albeit there’s single notes too (but whicjh might have been a voicing switch change on the instrument so that it changes the sound/voicing of the singular notes), hence me thinking it sounds a bit like a concertina. I’m not even a novice on the Acoordion, so cannot say! Anyone else will know better – it would be great to hear some verification or thoughts on that background reed instrument not taking such a lead for the last couple of so songs as the concert draws to a finish. ps If anyone can identify the preceding and lovely French ballad that'd be brill!
  5. I think I've identified the 8 songs now. I rocketed forward with gaining knowledge from a recent find, '50 Years of Song' arranged by Aubrey Kennett (for 6 of the possibly 8 songs). The remaining 2 songs being from Will Godwin, Leo Dryden; and Leslie Sarony. Tho still a little mystified because of renditions of titles sounding like each other.
  6. Good question, and I'm not educated enough to give an informed answer, but I think 1 take is highly likely and that's in general to the length of a 78 rpm shellac disc on 1 side (up to 3+ mins for 10" records) especially for a such a skilled salon outfit who could I guess run for much longer (12" & transcription 33 1/3s etc. or even live, for long classical compositions). It wasn't until LPs I think that gave bands a chance to roll out a full 20+ mins side, for example the uninterrupted LP sides during when the ballroom dancing movement took off in parallel with the evolution of LPs etc. The particular band in your repliy, worked in a great many other guises and band names, aka the Orpheus Dance Orch/Band(?), worked also as a quartet to many listeners' surprise or disbelief due to the sheer wealth of instruments being heard on a side. I think this managing instruments and combined arrangements and so forth was maybe as much 2nd nature as it was an art in what was undoubtedly a professional skill set as evidenced in the above genre...... [ps I've had another listen to it - There seems to be an almost reeds quality that comes from the strings too in an intimate chamber orch context. So that coupled with actual reed related instruments other than concertina could make one imagine they're hearing like qualities. I think the English concertina was of course about the opposite to this theory........: the concertina to replicate the tones of the violin!
  7. That was my first impressions too. I don't know much about it myself, yet, as I've not listened to it much at a decent volume to help me figure out the instruments. I hope to be back in touch again with this or similar incidental concertina lurking in old recordings. There's quite a lot of concertina on record sleeve graphics all the same, even for early LPs despite the great shortage of it in actual popular recodings of the past - another topic! I think it would be good to have the concertina identified much more from old recordings where it's heard filling in but not being credited. There's some quite nice sounds in old light music or novelty bands that is sometimes I think because it has a rich background of instrumentation, perhaps even with concertina or the likes subtly enriching it (if not from other well mixed in reed instruments) serving the background. I look forward as a novice to hearing more gradually or eventually. Maybe have a listen to as an example from a 1932 light music orch.- I wonder if there's concertina in this at times! Oh and another YouTuber so kindly provided all the titles in the selection that I couldn't identify or got wrong.
  8. I wonder what kind of concertina it is at points (especially for the last song of side A where it leads).
  9. Please feel free to help identify any of the songs included in the medley Thanks Kevin
  10. https://soundcloud.com/user-525630858-405274758 Enjoy, courtesy of Stuart Eydmann, the author! CD-1 has my grandad Danny with wife Jeanie. CD-2 ditto; plus my uncle Freddie on Banjo, an in-law of my Gran's; and Billy Boyd, my stepdad, on Harmonica.
  11. Yes, I guessed that as per my post, but didn't know the terminology used to explain the difference between extended-mode and otherwise. Great to know that there is the option to have each. I'd presume that it's model 20/20a that has the 'unrelated-to-treble' keyboard My TT has the low F3 one 5th below the middle C on the left side. Fortunately the TT range goes down to C3 on the right. I would need these extra lower notes if I were to play with either swapped keyboard sides and/or row positions. I'm still a bit unclear on how all the models compare, button/layout-position wise, until I can actually have a feel and/or compare Audio/Visual clips. So, I'll dream on for the moment. I'm communicating with Buttonbox on it and it happens to be the case that their two baritone Aeolas are of the extended variety so that it maps with my TT, but the other (non-extended) mode would be equally fine as I've said, if not better for me. ps I'm glad you've found/understand your preferred ranges too.
  12. conzertino, many thanks for the update and new info. The 10a is almost what I need, and not far off a Wheatstone 10b, as I need the 56 keys as a minimum. Also good to be reminded of the model 14 for sale at $6k+, an aeola equivalent of the 10b, which would again be okay indeed. I am kind of hankering for a switch in the layout that puts the middle C on the opposite side, which the 10b probably should be doing to fit within the hexagon (?) I note that the model 14 Aeola for sale has middle C on the same side (left) as my 56 key TT Aeola (model 19):- 1) as a slightly lazier option - to read the treble clef where I'm accustomed to playing it (when I'm raising an octave from the piano/vocal sheet music); 2) presumably a lighter weight; 3) maybe also cheaper; However, I wouldn't be averse to having the exact same keyboard as my TT on a slightly bigger Aeola as I'm fairly accustomed to reading an octave above, but not yet at sight-reading speed, which is also the case for me with bass clef, and especially if the quality is better matched to my TT Aeola, which is another aspiration. I won't know yet until I start testing and/or acquiring. Oh, ps: Steve Dickinson recently overhauled the TT for me and may be able to sort any Baritones out to the same standard. I need to find one first that hasn't been too tampered with (or maintainable). I asked Chris who doesn't have one as yet, but is looking out for me as well. Fingers crossed! Thanks again ps Oh, I see there's also a Glasgow based extended baritone up to C7 from possibly F2 (64 buttons) like a Wheatstone model 16 - and it's over $1k cheaper too. It could be perfect for my purposes. I'd better now make an enquiry to see if I can try it - oops, false start, it's Glasgow US presumably, hmm. pps I think I would put 'quality/maintainability' above 'range' rather than vice versa if it came to having to chose where to put limited funds... ppps: No, I see now, it was a presumably former principal of the instrument who came from Glasgow, Scotland. One of the priciest kinds of Aeola, I would imagine, and I'd guess justifying an owner's own engraving. Regarding the other instrument for sale on Buttonbox.com. the 56-key variant, I wonder in what way the model 14 is different from the model 20a - both have a similar description on the 1930 pricelist PDF and are the same price - maybe one involves the middle C being on the left and the the other on the right ('slipped', as I think Steve termed it). I can imagine such a slippage in the pattern affording a slightly more economical sizing. Both would have their merits, but in respect of the other instrument, the model 16 like 64-key Aeola going up to C7, I think I'd prefer to have the less economical, larger, sizing so that it can, practically, double as my tenor-treble when it's out getting serviced... The 56-key model 14 would of course also be able to double as a TT, but not to the same extent at the higher end.
  13. Please let me know if this is still available or similar. I'm on the look out for one of these rare items because low and behold, as I've anticipated for some time, I'm having to sooner or later put some of my repertoire plans on hold until I acquire a model in this range. "I only have eyes for you" has sprung up as an example song from my planned "The Thirties" songbook transcriptions and practice for English Concertina, from piano/vocal sheet music, which I'm comfortably over a 1/4 way through by transcribing/playing both clefs on mainly tenor-treble (56 key). I anticipate that around 1 in 10 songs from such standards, or probably even much less, will need the use of a slightly more extended range into the bass clef: "I only have eyes for you" as a case in point - ideally - requiring a 56 key baritone from G2 to G6; or perhaps a slightly larger model that can straddle this range a little more, but possibly at the expense of weight, although I'm not so sure anymore (going on comments). I've seen three others today too, so far in my search, which I think are all unfortunately museum based. I wouldn't mind swapping a 60 key 1897 Lachenal New Model treble to help afford a baritone aeola like this one. I was recently told that they're difficult to acquire and well sought after, as you'd expect. I have the tenor-treble equivalent (Wheatstone model 19 Aeola ) and I can therefore understand this sentimentality. There's no rush as I've plenty of songs to get through, probably years' worth. If the worst comes to the worst, then I can always transpose the key to fit to within C3 to C7 or even Bb2 upwards excluding B2 as I've fortunately that modified Eb3 duplicate that I've posted about way back on the forum. I like authenticity in the written key, so I shall leave key-transposing to the last if my wait for a similar baritone should become too long. Back to the music stand that I no longer have! ps If it weren't for my need to grow my transcription accomplishments beyond the 11 songs that I've learned, so far, maybe averaging out about 5 new songs per-annum: shared alongside necessary practice on learned songs, then I would probably publish and/or record the results my findings, but I feel that the first 5 years will be needed to continue - dedicate towards - transcribing and practising (notwithstanding that I am recording thoughts on my Google+ page as I progress). I keep myself stringing along to the plan! A couple of years down now, and hopefully many more to go.
  14. No construction work today, but the exacerbated noises remain non-conducive to playing/contemplation? I’ve not been practising for a couple of weeks; and I now ask myself why I bear this. The exacerbation of low frequencies can make a modest car engine sound excruciatingly severe and is not good during contemplation. It seems to have gone off upon typing these thoughts already, despite normal traffic going by, for how long I ask. I should have long cottoned on that some entity or whatever it is (let’s call it Hyperacusis) does not want me progressing on concertina. I will make a plea to myself. If sound stays like it is now I will return to progressing on the instrument. However, otherwise is simply torture, and cannot be doing me any good (?) It will simply annoy me to the point I’ll lose the rag. Who knows: if I stay off concertina for a while maybe the ugly/irritating exacerbation will give way. I think it’s starting to come back now as I finish my post. Okay: will now have to sign off until such times; and very sorry I’m taking this new approach. Yes, it’s definitely back now... I hope it’s not for long! Goodbye for now. [Oh it’s back off again, I’m not playing on/off games – no way – it has to stay off for good I’m afraid, someone’s trying to call too, so better go] Cheers again, I read in though!
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