Sandy Winters

The first John Williams album has several duets with concertina and whistle (Micho Russell on whistle).

Get a copy of John Williams' video. The Kesh is one of the tunes he teaches on the video, using the 2-row fingerings system. Find it on ebay, always available.

Sorry about that. You're right. It's Homewood (Tedrow), not Holmwood (Hamish Bayne).

Why not go right to source?? Search out the *early* stuff of Alf Edwards with Ewan MacColl and A.L. Lloyd. Louis Killen's CD's are readily available at most sources, Cooney's are harder to find (is there more than one available??)

Since you're considering a Herrington or Morse, I'll assume you are playing an anglo. If that's the case add Tedrow (Holmwood Music) and Edgeley to your list. Both very nice instruments (and very nice people) at a reasonable price.

I hope Victorian attitudes aren't a requirement for playing a Victorian instrument??? David, I love the photos, thanks. Ken's second approach to this issue seems reasonable.

I agree with Chris that this is "not one of the totally fraudulent cases that have been exercising us recently". I guess I'd go a bit further and say that I don't feel that the item description was "grossly misleading". Yes the word Lachenal appearred, but with a very prominent "?" right next to it. Leaky bellows and missing parts were mentioned in the description and very clearly shown in the pictures. The item is clearly stated as being sold "As Is". The condition of the instrument is obvious and it's origin is indicated as questionable. What more do want?? The seller has more than 700 transactions with a 99.9% positive rating. Ebay ain't WalMart.

I would recommend that you just stop corresponding with the jerk. I'd also block his email address, and be done with it.

Here's a photo of my 'chaplains'/field organ' organ in mid-restoration (new belows and substantial reed work). Still needs much cosmetic work. I haven't done much research recently, but if my memory serves me correctly, the serial number on this instrument dates it from the early 50's (*19* 50's).

I suspect that a 'field organ' may be what I know as a 'chaplain's organ'. Therse were small (portable) reed organs (foot pump driven) that were manufactured for the US Army during WWII. The casework was built to fold up into a wooden suitcase. The ones I've seen were manufactured by the Estey Organ Co. I own one and will try and post a photo of it.

Jim made the comment that if Jill's estimate of a 70% fraud rate were true it would be frightening, and I agree. But that's the point. The 'estimates' do not seem to be true. Real solutions to real problems are not often reached without careful assessment of the real situation. I don't consider the 'attempted' fraud rate to be trivial. It is a serious matter. But responsible behavior on our part (responsible bidding and watching out for each other) is the first and best weapon to fight this trend. Mike's experience is truly unfortunate, but this type of problem is not a problem that can be solved by ebay. It is a universal problem on the internet. Definitely change your password(s) as often as is convenient. Signing off, as requested :-) Be Careful "out there".

Hmmm??? This doesn't seem like a good sign. Is the Concertina.net site open to unsolicited ads on an automated basis?? Are the concertina corkscrews, postcards, ceramics, et al, going to be showing up??.

Hi Jim, are you nit-picking again?? (Please notice huge smiley :::---))) Of course you are correct about Lady Margaret and Sweet William, and Sweet Williams Ghost. Barabara Allen (Sometimes 'Ellen') is Child #84. In the Bertrand Bronson collection entitled "The Traditional Tunes of the Child Ballads" (4 volumes, published by Princeton University Press 1959-72) the lover in question is named in many versions of Barbara Allen as young man, John Graham, young Jimmy, William Green, and Sweet William (in a version collected by Cecil Sharp between 1903-1918. Willy seems to have been quite a rounder. Sweet William appears in Child 106, The Famous Flower of Serving Men: "I changed my name, from Fair Ellen to Sweet William" One version of Lord Thomas and Fair Eleanor (#73) Is called Sweet William and Fair Annie. (Collected in 1874) A version of Earl Brand (#7) is titled 'Sweet William and Fair Ellen' (collected in Harlan county, Kentucky in 1920) He also appears as 'Sweet Willy' in a version of Child #215, Willy Drowned in Yarrow, (Collected in Whitehope Farm, Peebleshire, 1907) Are you familiar with the Bronson opus?? If not, it is must reading for any one interested in Child Ballads. As I'm sure you know there was no musical information in the original Child publication, just lyrics. Bronson collected thousands of versions of the Child ballads and transcribed the various melodies with lyrical variations. There is an abridged, one volume edition entitled "The Singing Tradition of Child's Popular Ballads" published in 1976. Cheers

That might be correct, but only if you believe that experienced (careful, savvy, street smart) bidders are being scared away. I don't believe that is the case. That is one of the the reasons I keep responding to this thread. The 'chicken little' alarmism is unfounded. Jill's claim that 70% of high end sewing machine auction items were suspected scams didn't ring true when I first read her post but I didn't want to say anything in response before investigating for myself. I did a search for several of the items she mentioned and found about 80 listings. About half of those were for sewing machines and many of those for high end machines (about $1000 and above). I found 1 item that I am sure is a scam (zero feedback, member since June 15, etc.) I found another item that seems a bit suspicious only because of low feedback (6 transactions, all positive, but only 2 as a seller and those 2 for very low priced items) I'd be wary of that item without more contact with the seller. All other items were clearly legitimate, sellers with very high ratings (most in the 100's and a few in the 1000's, and one above 4000) and long, visible feedback history of legitimate sales. That does not constitute a 70% potential fraud rate. Thru feedback history of sellors, I found 2 items (a Viking Designer 1 ESS and a Pfaff) sold for $3450 and $3000 last month. I just don't see the alarmist concerns as well reasoned.

From a different angle, Sweet William was the lover who died for the loss of Barbara Allen. When they were both buried side by side a briar and a rose grew from their graves and intertwined.

Paul, perhaps I was not clear (once again ;-). I'm not implying that ebay made a policy change, although I hope they did. The fact that all bids by the high bidder disappeared may have been because the seller rejected the earlier bids after the high bidder withdrew his final bid. I'm not sure what actually happened. Jill, I would think there would be any number of ways to determine if the three 'suspected scam' machines are actually scams, at least after the fact. And if they are actual scams I can't see any way that that would affect the resale value of legitimate items??? Jim, I'm certainly willing to 'let it rest', and to continue to consider your opinions and viewpoints as one of the primary reasons to visit this discussion group on a daily basis. All is well that ends well.

Paul, how long ago did you experience your problem with a potential shill bidder? I've seen the exact same thing happen within the last 6 months or so and in that case all bids by the high bidder disappeared when the high bid was retracted. So, effectively, the proxy bid of the second highest bidder wasn't run up any higher than the increment above the third highest bidder. Perhaps the seller took it upon himself to cancel all the bids of the high bidder to protect himself from negative feedback. If you actually think that the high bidder was a shill for the seller you certainly are justified in leaving negative feedback. I know that you are an experienced ebay user and that you understand the methodology of the proxy bids, how the proxy bid works when there is a reserve price, etc. I would would just comment, though, that some people are very confused by it and assume something sinister is happening because they don't understand it. Jim, It's becoming harder and harder to understand your point. You seem to be saying the exact same thing I said originally, that I *do* feel that we, as a community, have a moral obligation to protect each other, and to try and protect the helpless (stupid *or* ignorant). Check my earliest posts. That's what I said!!?? You seem to have fallen into behavior that I thought was part of C.net's dark history. Endless quotes and nit-picking, getting in the last word. The point at which you claim that my viewpoint is 'ridiculous' is the point at which I stop taking your viewpoint as seriously as I usually do.

I guess I'll just reiterate my original point, perhaps not made clear enough at the start. As a seller and buyer I am 100% satisfied with ebay, based on my own personal experiences. (Many transactions, some of them in the $1000 and above range.) I also have personal friends who have sold and purchased thousands of items, either privately or thru business (There are many many businesses using ebay as a marketplace) who are very satisfied with ebay's product. Ebay is the most successful on-line business in existence, and has been for many years. They are successful because they offer a very good product. Is there the potential for the occassional fraud?? Of course. Can people occassionaly get ripped off?? I suppose so. However, I've never been a victim of such fraud. Nobody that I know has been a victim of such fraud. So far nobody on this thread has indicated that they actually know a 'real victim' of such fraud. All of the fraudulent concertina auctions that have been mentioned here and in earlier threads (at least one other I'm aware of) have been reported and dealt with in a reasonable manner. Yet you'd think from this thread that the sky is falling. Are there actual victims?? Of course. Ebay handles millions of transactions every day. Ebay can be tough territory. As I stated, I would never bid on an expensive item listed by a seller with zero feedback. That's just plain stupid. Just as there are criminals in this world there are stupid people in this world. Stupid people get hit crossing the street because they don't look both ways, but that shouldn't mean that I need to have a policeman hold my hand when I want to cross the street. I can take responsibility for myself, and I'll look both ways before I cross that street, or bid on an ebay item. As for ebay's legal responibilities, do you actually think they have never had their legal position challenged?? That seems very unlikely to me. They are only the most profitible on-line company in history. I would assume (and it's only an assumption) that they've been sued up one side and down the other. Some of the suggestions concerning making it easier to report 'issues' with certain listings would seem to be worth considering. But consider this. Making the reporting difficult enough might insure that only legitimate complaints from determined users get filtered down to the watchers at ebay. Making it too easy would simply flood the ebay watchers with malicious and frivolent complaints making the whole security system useless. Just a thought:-) Generally I think the system works just fine. Keep a lookout for each other *and* take responsibility for yourself. If I, or anyone I know, actually becomes a victim of fraud on ebay, without engaging in naive, stupid, or irresponsibe bidding, I will retract all I've said :-)

Hmmmmmm!!?? I for one won't be taking any estimates from government agencies very seriously. I seem to recall some recently well publicized errors. "As a buyer, I now correspond with sellers before even placing a bid. If there is anything suspicious, I simply don't bid." Sounds like a plan :-)

I agree that their response sometimes seems slow but I have never seen them not remove an item that I know to be fraudulent before the auction ran it's full time. Do you know of any specific cases?? I am sure it happens occasionally but I'm certainly not aware of 'many cases'.

Reporting fraudulent items is certainly not considered 'interference' by ebay and is encouraged by them thru their sytem. They are certainly responsible to their customers in that they must continue to offer a high quality product. It is not my opinion that they have a 'moral' responsibility to protect naive or stupid bidders. It is strictly a business decision for them. I do feel that we as a community (concertina players) do have at least some moral responsibility to try and protect each other. I'm certainly not a 'touchy, feely' kinda guy, but I would hope that if someone spotted me doing something really stupid that same person would feel just a bit obligated to warn me off.

Hi Ed, if you actually are bidding on this item I apologize for the 'idiot' word. Your approach (that is, retracting your bid if not satisfied by the sellers response to your questions) is exactly the right route to take. Cheers

The idea of bidding something up to an outrageously high price might seem to be a good iea, but it leaves you, as the high bidder, open to negative feedback, even if it does come from a fraudulent seller. That negative feedback is refected in your percentage rating which follows you everywhere in ebay. My percentage is 100% positive and I wouldn't risk that by vigilanty behavior, and I would recommend anyone else do so. If you think it's difficult to email ebay to report a fraudulent listing, think how hard it would be to explain your negative feedback received from a seller that you refused to honor your high bid with. To report fraudulent listings go to the ebay 'help' section. I can't remember exactly but I think what you want to look for is listings and 'other issues'. Keep looking, you will find the area to report fraudulent listings. I just did it and reported this item to them with a nasty note from the concertina community.

My experience with ebay leaves me quite confident that the this auction will be shut down. I've seen this same type of scam with other instruments (wooden flutes and vintage guitars). The ones that I've been aware of have always been shut down. Sometime within the next 2 days this item will just disappear. Ebay is one of the great wonders of the cyber-world. 99% of what they do is done very well. It is also the 'wild west', an anarchist's dream come true. The ebay product works because it is run on an honor system. The publicly visible feedback of buyers and sellers is the secret to their success. Every transaction is transparent, after the fact. (Wouldn't it be nice if governments had to come under the same scrutiny.) Of course, just like the real world, there will always be someone trying to rip people off. But it is very difficult to do when the cyber community establishes itself a neighborhood watch system such as has occurred with this item (and many others). Anyone who would bid on an item of this value under the clearly obvious circumstances (seller has no feedback, bidders user names are hidden, payment by wire transfer only) is an idiot. I believe we should take it upon ourselves to help and protect these idiot's, by reporting potentially fraudulent items, but I don't believe it is ebay's responsibility. They are a business, we are a community.

Richard, I still have my original copy of your book and I promise to read thru it again and see if I can make any constructive suggestions.