Mikefule

Irish traditional music and Morris dancing are pretty much the same thing, like the USA and Canada, Belgium and the Netherlands, astronomy and astrology, or Australia and New Zealand. There may be a few subtle differences that seem "obvious" to those who care deeply, but to the rest of the world, they are more or less synonymous.

If it's a C/G 20 button, then you have two rows of buttons. The far row is C, the near row is G. On the C row, right hand, starting from the button that your index figer touches (1st button, nearest the ceiling!) the push notes are C E G C E On the left hand, starting with the button nearest the ceiling, the push notes are G E C G E If you imagine folding the concertina so that the two keyboards made one long keyboard, therefore, the push notes, starting from the lowest in pitch, would be E G C E G / C E G C E That's simply a repeating pattern of C E G, which is the three notes of a C major chord. See what they did there? ;0) From that start, a little experimentation should find you the other notes by ear. On the G row, the push notes are a repeating pattern of G B D which are the notes of the G major chord. For a easy start and to build confidence, pick out melodies on the right hand, on the C row. You will find that any handful of 2 or more notes on the left on the C row will give you a C major chord accompaniment.

i did buy a C/G Rochelle. I would have bought a G/D if it had been available. The moment has now passed because I have a G/D box.

Gosh, so many opinions about something that only really matters to the people who do it. I must post some opinions about Japanese archery or Potter Hanworth Parish Council some time. The Morris is there for everyone to choose to do, or to ignore, as they wish. There are some bloomin' awful teams out there, but they don't detract from my enjoyment of dancing with my side. There are some amazingly good teams out there, but they don't increase my enjoyment of dancing with my side. So anyone who thinks it matters that many or most Morris dancers are mediocre can always choose either to avoid it, or to form an excellent side of their own. Most concertina players (guitarists, harmonic players, brass players, flautists, five a side footballers, sailors, mountainbikers, etc...) are pretty mediocre too. Another thing often overlooked is that two fundamental parts of the English psyche are self-deprecation and a healthy sense of irony. These are fundamental to the Morris tradition. In China they have elaborate paper dragons; in Indonesia they have the beauty and complexity of the gamelan; in Spain, the vibrancy of the flamenco; in Scotland, the skirl of the pipes; in Ireland, the craic; in France, er... quite a lot of cheeses... and in England we have a few fat blokes with dodgy knees dancing to two men and a dog outside a pub. It's an important part of being English, and no one else's business. And when you've seen a pathetically grateful audience of three on a dismal wet summer's night at an otherwise deserted pub, and you've seen the landord's eyes light up at the prospect of selling 30 pints of best bitter ... and then his face fall to the first bars of the Hohner Wall of Sound playing Speed the Plough, then and only then have you seen the full glory of the Morris, and only then can you begin to understand what made our nation so great. So, how do I harmonise those tricky notes on the left hand? ;0)

The Morris is widely misunderstood, and there are too many easy stereotypes. Most Morris men are indeed overweight, ugly and drink too much. That is because most men are overweight, ugly and drink to much. Most Morris men are only moderately competent, because most people are only moderately competent at whatever they do. 90% of everything that people do is done badly. For every concertina played entusiastically, smoothly and well, there are nine(ish) played rarely, jerkily and sqeekily. The Morris is a tradition. It is not street theatre, although it is sometimes presented as such. It is not professional entertainment, although sometimes we charge a pittance. (£100 for a three hour booking for 10 men?) It is not an art form, although a few dancers dance stunningly well. It should not be compared to the athletes you see displaying traditional Greek dancing for tourists in tavernas. It should not be compared to the River Dance, with professional dancers making something "spectacular" from traditional materials. It should not be compared with ballet. It is the Morris. A bunch of ordinary people who practise an hour or so a week throughout the winter, and perform for an hour or so an evening throughout the summer, to do something they love, and the public often enjoys. A typical team has a repertoire of 30 or so dances, which means that they get about one hour a year per dance to practise.

Firstly, thanks to everyone for the constructive and well thought out advice. Happily, soon after posting, I hit upon the octave instead of chord idea and have been experimenting with that. Also, the idea of shifting a passage up or down an octave is familiar to me from playing 20 reed harmonica. I also agree about the "dreaded oompah" and it is something that I try to avoid as far as possible even on melodeon. I play 1 row, where the chord options are limited, and I us a lot more pah than oom. Now, about the Morris dancing thing... Yes, the average technical standard of dancing is low. Depending what you mean by technical standard. Do you mean the delicacy of the footwork, the precision of the figures, or the vigour of the leaps? Many Morris sides practise once a week throughout the winter. Say 30 weeks of practice, an hour's practice per session, and a repertoire of 30 dances, = an hour a year per dance. The Morris isn't necessarily a "precise" tradition. It is part of the English tradition of inventing something, and doing it reasonably well in an amateur sort of way, like other English inventions: cricket, football, railways... Most Morris melodeon music is mediocre, because the melodeon is superficially easy to play. There are some marvelous melodeonists out there, but they're hard to find. Funny how many melodeonists have picked up my Anglo, knocked a tune out of it with some crashingly discordant handfuls of oompah and given it back to me with a "I can do that" sort of smile. Any handful of notes on the same row will harmonise... not on the pull, they won't.

There are very few stupid questions, only impatient answers. I had a Rochelle for a few months and quickly decided I wanted an upgrade. I upgraded to a Marcus at 5 times the price, and don't regret it. However, that is not to knock the Rochelle because it was good enough to hook my interest, and I kept forgetting to put it down and cook my dinner. Compared to a "proper" concertina, it is clunky, slow and physically unattractive. However, it is good value for money. I wouldn't spend less, and I don't think you'd get better for 50% more money. Mine was picked up and played by several experienced players who all expressed surprise at how good it was "for its price", and who were all able to squeeze some convincing music out of it. I made similar inquiries in this forum before buying, and the consensus then was that the Rochelle is head and shoulders above anything in the same price bracket and an excellent starter box. I doubt that opinion will have changed over the last few months.

I am new to Anglo. I come from a background of playing harmonica and melodeon for and with the Morris, so I have a fairly large "bank" of tunes I can already play on a diatonic push pull instrument. For now, I'm aiming for the style of mainly single note melody on the right hand, and simple rhythmic accompaniment on the left. So far, I'm playing variants of "oom-pah" interspersed with block chords of 2 or more notes on the off beat. I haven't really strayed off the 3 chord trick yet, but I am crossing the rows, and I can find the relevant chords in the "wrong" direction. My Anglo is G/D. I am still playing everything (or almost everything) in G. So, here's the question: Many Morris tunes go down below the tonic and onto the top button on the left hand. In G, the little run of notes, D E F# G leading up to the tonic is common. Many phrases also Have the reverse of that. The D and the E are on the left hand. I can find the right chords to harmonise with the D and the E, either on the push or the pull (I know about the E/D button on the accidental row) but I can't really find a way of making the accompaniment sound "clean and uncluttered". It's alright if a phrase ends "hanging" on one of these two notes, but when there is a run of them, or they are part of a run (e.g. near the end of Black Joke®; Constant Billy, The Webley, and - slightly different, but same problem - Orange in Bloom) it sounds awful. It's probably not an easy question to answer in words, but can anyone point me in a direction? Any simple "tricks of the trade"? At the moment, I am having to choose the tunes I practise according to whether they include the D E F# G run or any "fast notes" on that top button on the left hand. Thanks.

You can change the strings on a guitar, and significantly alter the tone and the response, but it is still a guitar. It looks like a guitar and you play it like a guitar. You may prefer steel strings or nylon, light grade or heavy, etc., but it is still a guitar. A violin is still a violin, even though these days most people do not use "authentic" cat gut for the strings. If something looks like a concertina, and you play it like a concertina, then it is a concertina. You may prefer the sound of traditional concertina reeds, and someone else may actually prefer the sound of "accordian reeds". I guess most of us would prefer the distinctive sound of traditional concertina reeds. However, I wonder what would have happened if the first models ever had been made with what we call accordian style reeds, and someone later had invented what we call concertina style reeds. Would we be having the same discussion today? Would people be saying that the modern ones were "not the real thing"?

Ah, Jon. You should know by now, money "saved" on instruments is money wasted. If I'd have known, I would have asked Pete when I went to buy my 1 row. I'm sure he would have taken the bellows down from around his light fitting, and I imagine the handpainted dragon design he'd added to make it look like a real Chinese lantern would have come off with a bit of bleach and a scouring pad.

http://www.pamelasmusic.co.uk/images/Forsa...ereed/Me081.htm What's this then? A distant ancestor of the concertina?

I've been having lessons with Keith Kendrick, who knows more about these things than I ever will. He played my Rochelle for me a few times and was able to make it sound pretty good - at least until he played his own box immediately after, and that sounded far better. He described the Rochelle as "fighting him". I upgraded to a Marcus (one of the cheapest hand made boxes available) and immediately felt that I was playing better. You'd expect a low-priced box to be less enjoyable to play than a high priced one. Where you lose out on the Rochelle is in the tone and the attack. You have to really pump the bellows to get any sort of "bounce" out of it, and work hard to get the reeds to sound when playing moderately fast.

I had one. I'd describe the sound as adequate, but not beautiful. Compared to a better instrument, the reeds were slow to respond, it was difficult to get "attack", and the sound lacked bite. A bit mushy. It was worth the price I paid, but I was glad to upgrade within a couple of months.

I used to be able to ride a unicycle (it's somewhere in my garage). And I can almost play the concertina (and it's a Maccann). So, . . . if can get the two together I might claim be in a set of one on this planet . . . . . . . unless there are any other claiments? John I would be the other claimant. I ride long distance and cross country unicycle, and play concertina, melodeon and harmonica, although not all at once.

You don't know what black balled is until you've ridden a unicycle. Remember what Groucho Marx said about clubs.

Break dancing is partly competitive. Young men will compete at anything, and dancing is competitive in many cultures. Brake dancing is a sort of modern folk phenomenon. Morris dancing used to be competitive. There is still an element of "showing off" when we dance in front of other sides. The "confrontational" aspect of the video was in keeping with the spirit of both customs. The Morris men "won" because the message is "The countryside has come to the city..." (as in nice fruity Ribena black currants have come all the way from the farm to your housing estate) and as Ribena is "powerful and good", the country custom has to be shown as "powerful and good". It's an advert. Adverts don't have to be true. They only don't have to tell lies that fall into certain legally defined categories. I've never been to Moulton, but Bampton (the source of the dances) is a small town. Headington Quarry Morris Men were traditionally quarry workers, not rustic farm labourers. So much for the Morris being representative of the countryside. It won't make me drink more Ribena, but it was well done and fun to watch.

That seems a bit harsh Geoff. It seems more than a bit harsh. I'd guess that those "street kids" were a proper dance team or group. The moves are good, and they are relaxed on camera. The preamble to the dancing is clearly well rehearsed. No "street kid" would take the hankies in the face, or having his hat knocked off, without feeling a loss of dignity. The whole thing is done good naturedly, and isn't a clash of cultures, but a friendly competition. The kids are skilled dancers. Whether they are street kids, break dance enthusiasts or professionals, they are good at what they do. I can assure you that sort of thing is far harder to do than dancing Bampton. 25 years ago, I used to do the most basic moves (swallow dives and so on) to rock and roll music, and it isn't easy. (Neither is dancing Bampton, but it is easier than break dancing or body popping.) Morris dancing used to be the young men of the village displaying their vitality and prowess, working as a team. That is exactly what the "street kids" are doing. If anyone deserves criticism, in fact, it is the Morris men, for allowing the film to be edited so that the Morris dancing is unrelated to the beat of the music. Fortunately, they manage to carry it off without falling into the worst of the various stereotype traps that the media set for the Morris. When the media stereotype "folkies" or Morris men as overweight real ale drinking buffoons who do silly dances and sing maudlin songs, that is deplorable. But our immediate reaction to seeing young kids in baseball caps is to stereotype them as sad knife-wielding thugs? Well done to Barry and the team for having the courage to do it, and do it well. It might do some good for both schools of dance, and help to get rid of prejudice on both sides.

A few years ago, Calverton Morris (Calverton Real Ale and Plough Play Preservation Society: CRAPPPS) danced a mile underground (Calverton was a mining village at the time) and a mile above ground (in a plane, of course!).

In some ways, the wrong question. A good quality instrument sounds better, is nicer to play, easier to play, and therefore gets played more. I bought a cheap melodeon, and have to force myself to practise it. I bought a Rochelle Anglo and practised it a fair amount. I bought a Marcus Anglo and I keep picking it up and can't put it down. The Rochelle and the Marcus have basically the same layout, but the better box is more fun to play, and encourages me to practise. If you buy a cheap 20 button box, you will not enjoy it, you may come to hate it, and you will probably give up. If you buy a Rochelle, it will encourage you to buy a better one. But the number of notes is not crucial at this early stage. William Kimber knew a thing or two about the Anglo, and although he had a "three row" he only played the two main rows and seldom used the accidental row, because he learned on a 20 button. I play harmonica, which is effectively a 1 row, and there are plenty of complex and beautiful tunes that fit it. A 30 button box is more versatile, but the quality of an instrument is the thing that makes it a joy to own and play.

I can't speak as an English player, but... I couldn't/wouldn't have made the commitment to getting a decent Anglo if I hadn't first taken the smaller risk of buying a Rochelle. The Rochelle is not the most attractive instrument to listen to or to look at, but it gave me sufficient taste for the instrument that I placed an order for a far better one a few weeks later. If the cheaper English ones are good enough to do the equivalent, then surely that can only be a good thing. They may well have their limitations, just as any cheap instrument does. But if they're basically the same, then a few missing notes won't make all the difference to someone's early playing career. Many Anglo players start on a 20 or 30 key instrument before progressing to a more complex one, and they have to relearn fingering. The same could be said of melodeonists making the step up from a 1 or 2 row to a 2.5 or 3 row. Or someone selling a Suzuki car and buying a Citroen. If the principle is the same then a slight change of layout in the buttons/switches shouldn't be an obstacle. The question is, is the cheaper box good enough to encourage or bad enough to put someone off. If it's good enough to encourage, that's a good thing. If it's bad enough to put someone off, then that's a bad thing.

My new Marcus "deluxe" G/D Anglos arived today. I'm a fairly new player, having had my first "go" on a concertina late in 2006. I've had a Rochelle C/G since about January, having lessons every 3 - 4 weeks, and practising most evenings. Over that period, I have tried every other Anglos I could get my hands on. People have been generous and tolerant, and I have "played" Lachenals, Jefferies, and Wheatstones in all states of repair from perfectly restored to held together with bodging tape. I guess I've "tried" a dozen or more, just for feel. The Marcus is nicely built and to my limited experience, compares favourably with all of the others I have played in terms of smoothness and response. The bellows (hand made leather) work smoothly with no stiffness or need to break them in. I haven't looked at the insides, but from the outside, it looks like a good quality instrument. The metal ends are smart and well finished; the wooden parts are nice. The metal buttons move nicely, and are smart with the little red felt gaskets around them. The action feels quick and is pleasant to use. The reeds are hand made, but are accordeon reeds rather than concertina reeds (as I understand it). The tone is bright and clear, with the D row not being too squeeky. Everything falls neatly to hand, and I can immediately play faster, smoother and better than I could on the Rochelle. The spacing of the buttons feels slightly different, and will take a bit of getting used to. The air button is easily accessible (unlike on the Rochelle). It even comes in a nice fur-lined box. Marcus were pleasant people to deal with over the telephone and by email, and delivery was far quicker than they'd estimated. I placed the order on 15th March, and took delivery 10th May. (Of the same year!) I am considerably more pleased with this purchase than my neighbours will be. :0D

Or http://www.aimoo.com/forum/categories.cfm?...tegoryID=270445 It is more "of the nature" of a melodeon than a concertina, even though it is different from either.

Nottingham, England: the main road into town is blocked by a massive St. Patrick's Day parade. The parade is led by a truck with bad music blaring out of speaker horns mounted above the cab. Behind the truck are various walkers mainly wearing large furry hats shaped like pints of Guinness. Some of the people are dressed as leprechauns. There are tricolours everywhere, most marked with the Guinness logo. Behind the walkers is a marching band playing a very basic 3 chord trick like the demonstration mode of an early Bontempi. Behind them is another truck, then a marching band, of which only two snare drums are playing, then more leprechauns in Guinness hats. A lady asks me if I'd like to buy a shamrock. Do I look like I'd like to buy a shamrock? In the market square, there are Guinness hats as far as the eye can see. I never knew this small east midlands city had such a massive Irish community - even though I used to be a regular at the local Comhaltas. Bad Oirish music is playing - the most distinctive part of it is the heavy "dum, , dum, , dum, , dum" bass that you get in bad country and western music. To me, Irish traditional music is melody melody melody, not bass and chords. Nottingham's take on Irish tradition is that it is mainly girls dressed as slightly tarty leprechauns, advertising a famous Irish brand of stout, and listening to country and wester with added diddly diddly, and lyrics about goats. It's too late to organise it now, but next year I might just organise a St. George's Day parade in Dublin. We can wear furry Old Peculier hats, the girls can dress as slightly tarty Cornish pixies, and we can play "In an English Country Garden" in a Nashville style. I might even ask people if they want to buy roses.

Thanks for the constructive advice and encouragement. I think I am developing a set of standard fingerings with a few standard "emergency variations". For a simple 4 button tune in C, I'd tend to just play on the C row. If I need the 5th button, or the 4th button appears too often, then I tend to cross the row to the G row instead. There are two obvious ways to do this, either using the G push on the C row or the G push on the G row as necessary. After that, there are useful options like using the draw C on the G row on the left hand, and sometimes both notes on the D/E button on the G row on the left hand. My question was really to do with the advisability of using notes from the left hand G row that would normally be played on the right hand C row. I've found a few examples where this either makes a more fluid melody possible, or it helps with bellows direction (or both). The position of the air button is definitely a niggle for me. I have picked up other, smaller, concertinas and had no problem. I am familiar with how an air button ought to work from playing melodeon, so it's not the timing or co-ordination, so much as reaching the bloomin' thing! As for chords - for some reason, these really aren't coming. The theory is all there - I used to be able to write 2 and 3 part harmony many years ago, and I can use the basses reasonably creatively on a melodeon. However, the Anglo seems to want me to play it in mainly single notes, with very occasional fills or vamps, rather like many people pay the English. Maybe it's because I haven't heard enough Anglo being played well, and maybe it's partly the tuning of the reeds which make the chords sound too stodgy for my liking when I do play them. Still, I'm only about a month or so into my Anglo career, so there's a long way to go yet.

One of the fascinating things I am finding as a new player is the almost infinite number of ways to finger even quite simple tunes. I have a Rochelle C/G Anglo, 30 key. I find it almost impossible to operate the air button whilst playing. I have been learning a tune: Billy Malley's Barndance (from the excellent Martin Hayes album, "under the Moon"). The tune is in G on the recording (as far as my cloth ears can tell) which gives me three choices: Play it in G in the "normal position" on the G row with the right hand. That makes it unpleasantly squeeky. Play it in G an octave lower, borrowing heavily from the C row. Play it in C. As a beginner, I decided just playing the tune in the "natural home key" of the box was the best option, so I started to learn it in C. However, the tune has a lot of push notes and not many pull notes, so the bellows kept closing up. Struggling with the air button, I tried a few alternative fingerings to balance out the bellows movements.. I started by using the draw G (X-R2?) on some bits. I then found that worked nicely with the draw C (G-L4) - but then that sort of seemed to run naturally with the D and E on G-L5. So far so good until I realised I could play the three notes E,D,E in quick succession using G-L5 and C-R2. I was playing adjacent notes of the scale on different rows and different hands. Now I have a fingering that more or less balances the pushes and pulls (good) and sounds smooth (good), but I am wandering all over both sides of the keyboard, all three rows, and of course any attempt to harmonise is going to be completely thrown because half the notes are in the "wrong" direction. My question to the jury is this: is this sort of experimentation with the fingering a Good Thing that bodes well for the future, or am I going so far off the beaten track that it will only teach me bad habits that I will need to unlearn later. I know there are some "widely accepted" ways of crossing the rows and there are no doubt good reasons. Thanks