DavidFR

My guess is they are referring to Chemnitzer players, who I think come more from the mid-Western states where God-Bless-XXX-and-USA items are more common (certainly more common than the Northeast where I come from). Nevertheless an unusual association. And not something I would wear.

My thanks to Mark for his generous hospitality and invitation to the session. Imagine my suprise when I found one of my old physics teachers and her son were regulars! Everyone was very inviting and even let me play a few tunes that no one else knew. Mark regaled us with two or three lovely songs and lovely playing on his Morse Albion. In particular I was impressed by his chordal accompaniment - I hadn't heard that done before in that way on an English. I appreciate Mark's compliments even if I think they are a little unfounded as relates to my playing; I don't really know all that many tunes or fancy ornamentations but that will come in time. I also just moved from a 20-button C/G to this 30-button G/D, so it will take me a while to get the hang of my accidentals and alternate fingerings, not to mention working out playing in different keys. It's my second "super Lachenal" from Paul Groff, and he always does great work - it's a real loss that he's leaving the concertina-restoration business. Unequal temper tuning is a little anachronistic, but playing the concertina is a little anachronistic, and intellectually I like the idea of D# and Eb not being the same. I certainly had a very good time and will go again, and would recommend it to others in the area. The atmosphere was welcoming, encouraging and warm, full of talented players, and the tempo while up did not race along at breakneck speed. Speaking of warm atmosphere, the temperature was OBSCENE. I really hope they fix the air conditioner, though to be fair we are in the middle of a terrible heat wave. 92 degrees in Boston around 8:30pm. And it will only be worse today. Thankfully the pub had irish cider on hand with which to quench my thirst! Thanks again Mark for your invitation and hospitality!

Is that a tendency among players, or a tendency among certain people who talk about players? My own early personal experience with concertinas (East Coast of US, especially Boston to Washington) was that there were far more people using the English for song accompaniment, but also for Morris, English country dance music, and Irish dance music. Father Charlie was the exception. But that was then. I think it's a bit of both. But between what I've heard (here and elsewhere) and seen (modern-day East Coast of US, especially Boston to Washington!) those tendencies appear to hold true. It is, however, difficult to judge. I was stunned at the number of concertinists who came out of the woodwork at the most recent Button Box concertina workshop. Far be it from to claim scientific validity for my anecdotal observations. As an English player, I would... suggest classical music on the anglo, that is. I also play a bit of anglo (though not at session speed), and I can read music, so I just tried a few bits -- Telemann, Bach, Correlli -- on the anglo. I wasn't great, but I had no serious problems. With a bit of practice I think a decent anglo player (who is willing to work on something different like that) should have no more trouble than with many an Irish tune. I too have tried my hand at a little classical music on the anglo, having played classical violin for many years and singing with a classical group in college. I felt very awkward doing so and thoroughly inept - especially vis-a-vis what I can play from a morris/irish/english/folk repetoire. The concertina band at the aforementioned workshop was so outstanding in addition, that it left me convinced that classical music is better left to the instrument designed for it.

I see this thread has engendered quite a bit of controversy, and even riled some emotions here. It would be a fallacy to say that one system is inherently better than another; I think it would be more appropriate to say that different fingering systems work best for different people. The Anglo system makes perfect sense to me, while I find English and Duet layouts difficult and practically incomprehensible. I think if you find the right system for you, you will be able to play whatever music on it you prefer. That said - there has been a tendency among existing players to use the Anglo for Irish and Morris music, the English for English, classical, and song accompaniment, and the Duet for song accompaniment and anything else that comes to mind. However - There are fantastic examples of Anglo song accompaniers (John Roberts and Jody Kruskal come to mind), and I know of a great English morris player and a great Duet player of Irish-style music. So really, you can play any kind of music on any concertina. As an anglo player, I would for myself not suggest classical music on the anglo. It can be done, but it's kinda sucky. Not a great idea. -David

And I can vouch for this statement. Jan is fantastic, especially for morris music. And the one time I went to Pinewoods (as a kid) I had a fantastic time. So if you can go, do go.

Nice photo. Looks like you and Jody both have Jeffries/Jeffries copies with bone buttons. I was/am under the impression that bone-buttoned Jeffries were a rarity. Guess I was wrong! Looks like you guys are having a great time!

Yes Dana, thank you very much for the clarification. It explained a great deal about something I've been curious about for some time. Perhaps Geoffrey Crabb could enlighten us similarly as to the scale choices of his family's instruments? It seems that to be a good concertina maker these days you need to be a good engineer, an excellent machinist, and a good player (or at the very least have access to some who can give you helpful and consistent feedback). My hat is off to all of our makers and manufacturers for keeping the tradition of craftsmanship alive. -David

I think Concertina.net is almost like a bar or pub with a bouncer. You can look through the windows and see what is going on inside without doing anything, but to get inside you have to show ID (register). Once inside, you can say or do whatever you want as long as you don't step on too many toes. Some people are louder and have lots to say, others sit in the corner and "people-watch," until a topic of sufficient interest pops up and they jump into the fray. Some people drink too much (step on too many toes, are rude, don't adhere to the unspoken rules of the community, or don't adhere to rules as posted by the "bar owner"), and are warned by the bouncers/owner, and after repeated violations are forcibly removed from the bar. This is strictly within the rights and responsibilities of the owners and operators of such "public houses," and is likewise within the rights and responsibilities of the owners and operators of fora such as this. I think Paul and Ken do a great job in running Concertina.net, I think they show an appropriately light hand in doing so (a credit to the general civility of Concertina Nation), and I appreciate the venue they have given us for discussion of all things concertina-related. That being said, the success of this and similar web sites is entirely dependent on the engagement of independent users. Empty bars are no fun. The combination of interesting and dedicated contributors along with the most-of-the-time hands-off approach is what makes this site so successful.

I've certainly seen some good examples of people with 30+ buttons making good use of the extra keys, but mainly for English music with melody on the right and chords on the left (mainly John Roberts/Tom Kruskal). For my own purposes I don't see much of a need right now for more than 30 buttons, as my main instrument for many years has been a 20-button and the extra ten are plenty to get used to for the moment, thank you very much. I'd appreciate an explanation of the difference between long and short-scaled reeds. I've seen 30-button G/D's with radial reed layout (granted they may have been tuned down), so I don't presume that a longer reed length means you need parallel chambers. Edited to fix typographical errors.

Rather than quote anyone in particular, just a few comments on the US banking system. What was mentioned as being required for an outgoing wire transfer is correct, including account number, routing number, addresses and SWIFT numbers. This is the result of various legislation including the Bank Secrecy Act and the Patriot Act(s). Both are designed to provide a certain transparency and paper trail for law enforcement to track down money launderers and terrorists. (Note - I'm just explaining facts, NOT giving my opinion on the rightness or wrongness of any of this legislation). Giving out your account number and routing number CAN make you a victim of identity theft and/or fraud. However, banks are only legally supposed to process transactions for which you have given them due authorization as described in your account agreement. You are not liable (beyond a certain amount) for unauthorized transactions to your account, including demand debits. This is covered in the Check 21 act and other electronic funds transfer legislation. The bank is responsible for unauthorized debits to your account, though it may be a real hassle to get it back. Some banks are not very nice. This does not cover you, for instance, if you fall into a Nigerian check scam. If you deposit a forged/false check and then wire money out before it clears (and comes back as a forgery), YOU and you alone are responsible for that loss and any associated fees. Always talk to your customer service people if you have any questions at all about the legitimacy of a transaction/item. And make sure you bank at a good bank if at all possible . Jim, it is true that most of Europe (my only experience is with Germany) have largely eliminated checks in favor of free/cheap electronic transfer options. It remains relatively expensive here, though there is movement in that direction. It also remains questionable which is better - with a check you have a better paper trail and more recourse I think if things go wrong.

It looks beautiful. I second the vote for G/D though, I don't know if it's because the reeds are necessarily bigger or it's just difficult to tool up for it, but a fair number of the concertina-reeded makers don't offer G/D models. Juergen Suttner, for instance, does offer G/D tuning on his 30-button Jeffries copy, but not the 38-button or the Wheatstone Linota. I wonder why that is? If I had money for a new concertina right now and Jeff offered one in G/D, I'd be there. In particular because he doesn't have a long waiting list.................yet. It could very well turn out like Dana Johnson, who apparently was flooded after posting his ads here.

Personally I vote for a brass spacer. I think that would look pretty neat. A fretless top also provides an opportunity to do a relief carving of some sort in the wood. I don't know how easy that would be to do or if it would take away the point of not having frets.....I thought of painting a design, but that might not wear well with the years.

I have to disagree with you Michael, I don't find English button layout to be completely logical. In fact I find it very confusing. However, that's probably a product of my own musical background coupled with the fact that I am one of those strange people that finds the Anglo concertina very logical. Or if not logical, at least highly intuitive. I also find the accidentals to be surprisingly intuitive and reasonable, though I only moved up to a 30-button from a 20-button a couple months ago. I may yet change my mind on this. Greg: I agree with what a number of other posters here have said, including Michael. I think English is the way to go for you. Fully chromatic no matter how many buttons or in what range, and blessed with a relatively accessible classical repetoire. Of course, as a composer I'm sure you could adapt other pieces to the range of the instrument. Some people consider a duet to be more versatile. I think if you want to play it at a high level, it will require a greater investment of time and money than you are looking for right now. I have heard both duet and English concertinas sound great on a variety of repetoire; anglo I think is the only kind definitely out. Again, I do get the feeling that an English is what you're looking for. But as Chris said, you should try both out and see what you like best. Let us know where you are located, and I'm sure we can point you in an appropriate direction. Dirge: A piano accordion might impress the carpet biters as much. But it's certainly not as portable. And a concertina definitely wins (over most instruments!) for coolness factor.

I think this is the ultimate in subjective questions. For what it's worth, the ultimate concertina to me (that I've ever had the pleasure of playing) is a particular 36-button C/G Jeffries. Pin-type bushed bone buttons, metal ends, ridiculously fast action. Highly responsive reeds and of course a lovely tone. I find with C/G instruments that the upper notes can sound piercing or shrill, and this Jeffries despite the metal ends hits the upper registers clearly and cleanly, without shrieking. What is it worth? Hard to tell since it isn't for sale and probably won't be for sale for a long time if ever. I won't presume to speak for the owner, and I think the instrument has a lot of sentimental value. However, if it were to be sold it would certainly go for what other top boxes sell for these days. Personally I think five figures is too much to spend for any concertina, but I am speaking as a person of very limited means.

Hi Virgil, Welcome to the forums! Since it seems like you are in England (I assume this since you mention 1500 GBP) I would first suggest having an in-person meeting with Chris Algar of Barleycorn or another good reputable dealer if possible. That way they can show you what is immediately available in your price range and give you a chance to try things out - which I think is a great tool to help find the right concertina for your needs. I will leave it to others to say who those "other good reputable dealers" in your area may be, as I'm not sufficiently familiar with that market. Of the hybrid makers mentioned (Morse, Edgley, Tedrow, Harrington, Marcus, Norman) I have personal experience with Morse and Edgley instruments and would recommend either one as a good option. The Wakker concertina-reeded instrument may be a bit above your price range, but the Geuns concertina (accordion-reeded) fits well within it. I have no experience with either, so perhaps someone can weigh in on their qualities. Just to throw another log on the fire, Dana Johnson's Kensington concertinas are excellent and affordable, and also in the range you mention. However, you'll probably need to wait at least two years right now to get one, and you may want to upgrade before then. Good luck, and let us know how it works out! -David

I was quite sad when I had to cut my shoulder-length hair before an interview (for a summer internship with Kerry that I didn't even get). Of course, though I kept the goatee, my friends stopped making fun of me for having a "Jesus" look going (no offense or intent to look like Jesus intended).

Sadly I haven't seen this yet but will make sure to pay special attention to that scene when I do. I did, however see Hook the other day on TV (where Robin Williams plays a grown-up Peter Pan) - one of the pirates in the crowd on the docks early on is holding a concertina in one hand. Doesn't play and is only on screen for a second. Very sad. And since it was on TV, I couldn't rewind and figure out exactly what it was. I think Cap'n Jack is admired by a number of the ladies. Personally, I just wanted to grow out my beard with those two little braids. Pity I work at a bank.

For years I only had a soft bag for my concertina. Then on a multi-state morris tour it took a slight dent in one end. It wasn't too serious but it made me realize I definitely needed a hard case. So I took my concertina out to the Button Box and they custom-blocked for me one of their hard cases, which do in fact have the lid on top. My concertina has been very well protected since. Two comments though - sometimes when walking with it my leg has bumped up the latch, causing the bottom section of the case to swing down and almost spill out my concertina. As far as I can tell the latch seems very sturdy, maybe I just walk funny, but I'd be curious if anyone else has had a similar problem. It also does not have any kind of shoulder straps, which I think would be useful. So I recently did a custom modification (me with a drill in my basement) to add four metal loops on the lower section for straps. I think it will be great - whenever I find time to get around to actually making the straps.

As a peon of the banking industry, 8% would be pretty good for a small business/commercial loan right now. Prime is currently at 8.25% and most financial institutions (mine included) add on a point or two if not more for most kinds of loans/customers. Then add in that you need to be an established business (banks are not generally venture capitalists) and provide a certain number of financial statements to even be considered. And then consider - is it an industry banks would consider lending for? It's more than a little out of the box. In the end, the problem is one of volume. For an outfit like The Button Box which has (relatively) high volume, maybe they are able to procure that kind of financing. But for someone just getting started, good luck. Maybe instead of (as was suggested in another forum) donating money to support apprentices we should establish a non-profit or mutual lending institution to provide low-cost loans to interested concertina manufacturers to get them the equipment they need. A combination of philanthropy and venture capitalism to put more high-(est) quality instruments on the market.

Steve, You said let's not go there. I can't help myself though. A concertina is certainly not a type of accordion. They are both members of the free-reed family, which includes concertinas, accordions, harmonicas and many other strange and fascinating musical inventions. However I am fairly sure that the accordions and concertinas followed chronologically concurrent yet developmentally divergent paths almost from inception. I welcome corrections on this - this is based simply on my reading of materials regarding concertina history and development. I also apologize for the alliteration. -David

As a long-time dancer of the morris, that is the best reference to morris dancing ever. I will definitely have to share that with my teams.

Maybe all those talented teenagers have just grown up in the last 15-20 years. I was disappointed but not overly surprised to see that I at 24 was the youngest player by far at the Button Box's recent Concertina Workshop. In the 8 or so years I've been playing (though I kind of dropped out of the folk scene during college) I've only ever met two under-30 concertinists. This despite the fact that the Boston folk music scene is practically flooded with young talent right now - but they all play fiddle or accordian or something like that. This may look very different in other parts of the US or other countries. In this area, I think there are two issues with the concertina and young people - one, it's not very visible with concertinists coming out of the woodwork only every so often; and two, young people (myself very much included) simply don't possess the purchasing power. Maybe it's just easier to start playing violin in 4th grade with everyone else at school and then switch over to fiddle later on if you or your family have ties to the folk music scene. Maybe if we convinced a music teacher to make everyone start concertina instead of traditional band/orchestra instruments - they could all start with Rochelles or something. The kids might all play the wrong notes, but at least they would be in tune. Then again, I do get a kick out of playing a somewhat rare and obscure instrument that few other people play. I'm glad I'm not "just another fiddler," though before someone knocks me on that last comment I play a bit of that too. I do hope, though, that as I get older I'm not the only one playing - I think it's critical to maintain the strong and dedicated community we clearly have right now.

Esthetics are never pure. Our esthetic concepts are based on our experiences. Of those I have heard accompany sea songs on concertina, the majority have used the English. It was some time after I got used to this that I learned that most (though not all) concertinas appearing in movies (and on stage?) have been anglos and that this is the main source for the idea that sailors used concertinas a lot. Bill, your experience -- and so your esthetics -- probably differed. By the way, of those anglos appearing in films, it seems that many weren't actually played. I believe the Englishes were. I don't think I've ever seen a concertina in a movie. Any particular ones you want to point out?

very good advice Bill,however I play the harmonica but couldn,t get on with the anglo ,although most people would find it easier,Iam sure. Well I did say probably . BTW, I want to make one thing clear from my earlier post. When I mentioned that the waiting list was years, I was specifically referring to makers using concertina reeds. Most of the accordion reeded instruments can be ready in less than a year, and some of them might just have instruments close to being done. -- Bill i think you will find J ohn Connor ,only has a waiting list of nine months Really? Thats cool, I have only heard a few things about Connor's, but it has generally been positive. I would guess that if the waiting list is so short that it is more because of lack of advertising than anything else. I don't know how fast the Concertina Connection sold out their run of Anglos for 2006, but I know that Dana Johnson developed a 2 year wait list rather quickly once he put up his website. -- Bill Personally I've never seen any information anywhere on where or how to purchase a new Connor, either through an agent or direct sales. I'm sure if such information were available, plenty of people (myself included) would be interested in getting on that list. The lack of advertising may be completely intentional - as you say, when Dana Johnson started his wait list jumped exponentially. Maybe some makers like Connor and Dipper are purposefully trying to avoid being flooded by operating on a more word-of-mouth basis.

The extra buttons also give you the ability to play tunes that aren't restricted to simple diatonic "keys" and modes. Tunes with more than one accidental -- "White Christmas" is my favorite example -- simply can't be done on a 20-button. And I'm working on some Swedish tunes right now that work nicely on a 30-button, but aren't possible on a 20-button. Swedish tunes with a "tonic" of A or D often have multiple occurrences of both C and C#, but F's only natural (no F#). Lily, While I generally agree with Jim and Woody that 30-button instruments are much more versatile, a 20-button anglo may be a better place for you to start, especially in your price range. My main instrument has been a 20-button Lachenal C/G for about 8 years now (granted I didn't play it much for 4-5 when I was in college) lots of tunes while learning the instrument. I should mention that when Paul Groff was done restoring it, my box was probably better than first came out of the Lachenal production line. But the point is that for a first instrument you should not be scared away from 20-button concertinas. You can do and learn so much with them. Later if you decide you like it you will have plenty of options to move up.