Daniel Hersh

See http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-39-keys-concer...itemZ7381148738 . This one looks very suspicious to me--private sale, 1-day listing. It's also interesting that the member is French but the instrument is allegedly in London--I wonder if someone hijacked the seller's ID and plans to complete the "sale" off eBay... Daniel

This one's at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7380637025 . Could this be a scam? I'm suspicious because it's a private listing. Daniel

Richard-- I started to write an answer to this, then I realized that I'd better take out my concertina and try some tunes this way to see if what I was about to say was actually true. It turns out that I think we're both partially right. It's possible to play G tunes in the standard range on a G/D by using the right hand, but you have to cross rows over to the D row at the very high end of the G row range to get the high A that you need on the high part of many Irish G tunes (e.g. Sally Gardens, The Traveler, etc.). That's not very hard to do, so on a practical basis you're correct and a G/D would work for this as long as the player would be willing to get off the G row to get that note. But I don't think that your very last point is correct, at least for a 20-button. I tried playing those same G tunes on octave higher on my C/G, but in that case the (extremely) high A isn't on the instrument at all, since the C row is pitched too low for row crossing to work. I think that it's there on a 30-button at the high end of the 3rd row--but there seems to be a piece of dust in that reed on mine and it's not sounding at all, so I don't know for sure... [A while later] Got the dust out of the reed, and it is indeed that very high A at the top end of the accidental row on a 30-button. So I tried those G tunes an octave up and could play them, but the fingerings were pretty unpleasant--too much of use of the fifth finger to be much fun, at least for me. Daniel That depends on what you mean by that. Most people play tunes in G in the range they are commonly played in. That means on a C/G box (when when playing on a "G" row), that range will be mostly on the left side G row and when playing on a G/D box (when playing on a "G" row, that range will be mostly on the right side G row. Of course a person with a G/D could play a G tune an octave lower than is typical by playing on the left side and a person with a C/G could play a G tune an octave higher than is typical by playing on the right side.... I hope this makes sense?

One more thing re G/D--I believe that your G row would be an octave below the G row on a C/G, so you'd likely be playing an octave below anyone else you'd be playing with. Daniel No apologies need be made, I'm quite the drifter myself Anyway, I only know that the Schaumanufaktur (Silvetta) produces Consertinas. I haven't seen Harmona (Weltmeister) producing any Consertinas, but I'm no expert, so I may be totally wrong! D/A is not bad, but I play a lot of stuff in G as well.. I'll have to think about this. But keep on throwing in suggestions people!!

Too high for what? I see that it sold, with Chris Algar as one of the bidders. With Jeffries prices at current levels, this price is (sadly) not out of line, even with a need for new bellows and possible other major work. Daniel

Apologies in advance for contributing to thread drift, but I'm curious, and you'd be likely to know...is anyone else in Klingenthal making concertinas commercially these days, of either "our" type or Chemnitzer? And I agree with the advice that others have given about the keys for the concertina that you're building. Another possibility for you would be D/A, perhaps with modifications to get you some C naturals too along the lines that were previously suggested. I have a 20-button D/A concertina (probably a Galotta, which I believe were made in Klingenthal a few decades ago) that works pretty nicely for Irish tunes in D. Daniel

Thanks, Wes. I know it's not really an Anglo, but that's what people usually call concertinas with that sort of key pattern nowadays. That's why I put "Anglo" in quotes... Any sense of how old it is? I was assuming that production of 1-row concertinas ceased fairly early, but it was just an assumption. Does anyone know? Daniel Daniel, I wouldn't say 'extremely' early, but this was the style of 'German' concertinas (not Anglos) from the beginning; four-sided and with 10 or 20 buttons. We usually pick up on pictures like The Blind Girl by Millais in threads like this as an example.

I started on a used Stagi (called Bastari back then) long ago, so I'd agree that's an option for you. I also agree that you're safest buying one that you can play first. And if you find one and the only problem is buttons that don't stand up straight (a common problem on these) that's a pretty easy fix. BUT...since you're saving up rather than necessarily buying right away, you might consider waiting until one or both of a couple of promising new low-priced concertinas become available: the Rochelle from Geuns-Wakker (see http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...indpost&p=25155 ) and the Triskel from Stephen Chambers ( http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...indpost&p=26579 ) Daniel

It's at http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Concertina-Nee...itemZ7375117310 . Is this an extremely early German "Anglo" or something else? Compare this: http://concertina.home.mchsi.com/concertina/history.htm . Daniel

Anyone who wants to see that thread can go to melodeon. net -- forums -- melodeon.net -- booriinwood and take a look. The Boorinwood fellow didn't post there either--someone made a positive reference to their own past dealings with him. It was also pointed out, there, though, that he did not answer the questions posed to him about the instruments that he sells. Daniel I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, Lars. That's why I think it would be good to have his comments here and not reported by a third party on melodeon.net. MC

I have wondered about these instruments too--the prices seem too low for Italian-made. Is Stagi outsourcing to China now? Or are these instruments not really Stagis? I queried the seller myself as to where they were made, but got a reply that said that he would only look into this if I were "serious". I said that I seriously wanted to know, but wouldn't promise to bid, and I haven't heard back from him since. Daniel

I think there at least 50 players here in the greater San Francisco area who can play at least a few tunes. There were 20-25 of them at a one-hour workshop I led last summer, and there are a number of more advanced players who I know personally who weren't there. I've got about 50 names on the local concertina e-mail group that I maintain. Daniel I probably know around 20-25 people who at least "tootle" concertinas in Somerset alone. I probably don't know at least another 5 to 10. Somerset is 1% of the population of England, therefore there are probably between 2000 and 3500 concertina 'tootlers' in England alone. What do other people think about their own areas? No darts were thrown during this estimate!

For Wim Wakker, try his firm's web site http://concertinaconnection.com . I don't believe they've posted any info about the Rochelle model yet, but it's my impression that it will be an Anglo that's analogous to their existing "Jackie" model of English concertina. Stephen Chambers has been hard to reach in recent weeks, but the best info I've seen about his Triskel is here: http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...indpost&p=26579 . And regarding your question about tone, it's not an easy thing to describe in words! I can say, though, that the Hohner and Stagi, due to their method of construction, sound more like small single-reed accordions than "traditional" concertinas. I would expect the Rochelle and Triskel both to sound better...but they're not yet available. I think there are sound files of a Jackie on Wim Wakker's site, which might be close to what a Rochelle will sound like. It's my impression that there are sound files of a Triskel prototype somewhere online, but I can't find them at the moment. And if you want to compare a Hohner to a Stagi, I'd suggest you ask the folks at Button Box, since they are a reputable dealer and sell both. Hope that helps! Daniel Don´t take a new HOHNER. They are made in China and the glue stinks (someone told me) Take a look at http://www.akkordeon-schau-manufaktur.de/produkte.htm if you want a two row. Good craftmanship and a fair price. Better than any STAGI. Best would be to safe the money and buy a middle ranged concertina or contact Chris Algar. Thanks for the information. I contacted now Chris Algar and his opinion is that for a simple 30 buttons anglo I should have a budget of about £1300. This is quite a lot. Now I'm looking for other ways... As I'm looking for a 30 button anglo, do you have other suggestions than the schau-manufaktur? Best regards, respi

You might want to consider a Hohner after all, from Button Box (if they ship to Europe): see http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...indpost&p=30081 . Or you could get a Stagi, from Button Box or elsewhere--a bit better and more expensive, but still not great. Still, it's what many of us started with. Or you could wait for two promising but not-yet-available new student-level Anglos: the Triskel from Stephen Chambers or the Rochelle from Wim Wakker. Both may be available within a matter of months. Daniel Don´t take a new HOHNER. They are made in China and the glue stinks (someone told me) Take a look at http://www.akkordeon-schau-manufaktur.de/produkte.htm if you want a two row. Good craftmanship and a fair price. Better than any STAGI. Best would be to safe the money and buy a middle ranged concertina or contact Chris Algar. Thanks for the information. I contacted now Chris Algar and his opinion is that for a simple 30 buttons anglo I should have a budget of about £1300. This is quite a lot. Now I'm looking for other ways... As I'm looking for a 30 button anglo, do you have other suggestions than the schau-manufaktur? Best regards, respi

I wonder if eBay didn't understand the nature of the complaint: they're discussing "image and text theft" (apparently a copyright-like intellectual property issue) rather than fraud. I also wonder how much time they take to investigate each of these--I suspect that it may be measured in seconds... Daniel How much did djangojessie tell them? I would think that even the densest individual should understand that the matching serial number and the fact that the photos in the scam listing -- the originals of which are also djangojessie's property -- were taken from an earlier listing of the same instrument would constitute "substantially similar" for the instrument, even if not for the web page. Did djangojessie's complaint include the eBay number for the earlier listing that the photos and description were taken from? I hope he doesn't give up on this.

Here's some similar info from Wim Wakker, from an e-mail exchange that started on a different topic (I have his permission to quote here): "I know that in some parts of the world anglos are the most popular... In fact, 90% of our own production (concertinas with traditional "real" concertinas reeds) are anglos for Ireland.. However, the rest of the world seems to prefer english. We've sold about 500 jackies the last 2 years. They go all over the world, from Japan to Australia, Korea, Finland, Russia etc.. Most of these players have no interest in the Irish music. They play their own stuff, ranging from local music to classical and pop music." Daniel The Button Box alone has sold almost 2000 concertinas including 347 of ours (not inluding the presale numbers of our waiting list customers). Mind that a fair chunk of those sales were to players trading up, and a few were sales of low-end boxes as gifts (which may not have "taken"). There were also several hundred sales of concertina method and tutor books/videos to custombers who haven't bought a concertina from us. But I can't help but think that we're small potatoes compared to a company like Castiglione (though they sell predominantly Stagi concertinas).

Here's an even better picture of a Stanley: http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an12545684 . I'd never even heard of these before this thread... Daniel

Try Jurgen Suttner: http://www.suttnerconcertinas.com/ . Daniel bill, Instrument is located in germany. maybe you have an idea, who can help in my country?! thanks for helping christian

I hope you can report this one...I would, but can't access the record of the prior sale. Daniel

Thanks for the info, Malcolm. Is djangojessie planning on sharing this information with Ebay? The fraudulent listing is still up (with 3 bids do far) despite reports to Ebay from me and others. Djangojessie's info might be sufficient to get it taken down. Daniel

Agreed on all counts. That whole web site is an amazing resource. Daniel I think everyone had little or nothing to add except "wow!" and "thanks", because none of us knew diddly squat about who Jeffries was until this article came along. And I doubt that many of us know how much work that was to track down the Jeffries heirs to find that information. THANK YOU ....and keep up the good work. I'm looking forward very much to part two!

These are both on right now. Listings aren't identical, but instruments look quite similar, and they are listed with the same serial numbers! http://cgi.ebay.com/WHEATSTONE-56-KEY-AEOL...itemZ7370962864 and http://cgi.ebay.com/WHEATSTONE-ENGLISH-56-...itemZ7371014717 Daniel

I've never actually seen one, but shouldn't Connor be added to this list? Chris Algar has one on Ebay now: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7369932052 . Daniel

Until recently, my only concertina for the previous 20 years or so had been a great old 30-button C/G probable Crabb. A few months ago, though, I bought a 20-button D/A probable Galotta on eBay, mainly because I liked the way it looked, and for some reason I've been playing it as least as much as my good one. Daniel

Here's a great source for price info for Chemnitzer concertinas such as this one: http://www.concertinamusic.com/sbox/sold.html . Daniel