Daniel Hersh

I think that Ted is referring to the page http://www.concertinamusic.com/sbox/data/serial.html -- try following the instructions for finding serial numbers on Patek concertinas. If that doesn't work you might try VERY CAREFULLY removing the ends of the concertina and looking for a number and/or other notes inside. If you do this make sure that you keep things organized so you can put it back together (each screw in the hole that it came from, etc.) exactly as it was. Daniel I also posted some questions which would make a difference. They were not answered. You really should try a little harder to figure things out for yourself. Do a Google search for "pearl queen concertina serial numbers" and the first hit is a page with a detailed description for this serial number as well as assistance in locating the number on the instrument. Since the information you're requesting will greatly affect the sale price in an auction, don't expect to get it for free.

Ted Kloba provided some good info for you here when you first posted about this. What specifically are you trying to find out beyond what Ted said before?

Try Sally Gardens or the Traveller. They fit pretty nicely into the G row. Don't have a source handy but they're both well-known. {Added later:} Far From Home and Green Fields of America are good bets too. Daniel

I see that this is up to 65 players now, including Michele Delattre near me who sent me the following comment (and gave me permission to post it here): "I love this! Maybe someone should send it in to Homeland Security -- after all, in a crisis they may need us!" [Posting intended as humor rather than as political commentary! dh]

It's back! Same seller, and this time described as a Jones: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...item=7394317189 . Daniel I'm pretty sure this is a Lachenal I'm pretty sure it's a Jones. Here is a 28-button lachenal. I agree there is are differences but I've never seen a wooden-ended Jones with fretwork this fine. That doesn't mean there is no such thing though. Has anyone got a similar instrument to settle it?

We're going over well-trod territory here... But the implied statement that there's no real demand for used Stagi/Bastaris is not accurate. The one that I mentioned earlier, a garden-variety older 30-button Bastari, is now at $200 on ebay with 2 days remaining in the auction, and this isn't atypical. My own first 30-button was a used Bastari, bought 25 years ago and easily re-sold a few years later at the same price I paid for it. Button Box sells good-condition used Stagis for prices not much lower than new, which is a further indication that there's a used market out there. A used hybrid for $1300 would be a very good deal in today's market--a used Edgley just sold on Ebay for $1700. The hybrids are fine instruments, but not everyone is willing or able to make that kind of financial commitment for a first concertina. A Stagi is definitely a learner's concertina, but it's a reasonable place to start for someone whose financial resources are limited or who's not sure how far they're going to go with concertina. Having said all that, there's a good chance that the Rochelle will be a better bet than a Stagi, but you can't buy one yet. Stepping down from my soapbox now, Daniel

After reading another thread re concertina repair in the San Francisco area, I started wondering... I've often heard (and said myself) that it's not a good idea to turn an English-made concertina over to an accordion specialist for repair or tuning--but I know that there are some members of this group who work on both, as well as a number of concertina specialists. So here's my question: is the standard wisdom true? What are the mistakes that an accordion specialist might make on a concertina? And how can one tell whether accordion specialists who say they can work on concertinas really know what they're doing? Daniel

Thanks, Bob--I'd never heard of these before. I should have known to check your site first! Daniel

Paul Groff isn't taking in any outside repair work right now, just working on instruments that he owns and plans to sell. Kimric Smythe has a good reputation for accordion work, but I don't know how much he knows about concertina repair. So far as I know, Button Box is the only real concertina repair shop in the US at the moment--and they generally have a six-month backlog. Aldon, what kind of concertina do you have, and what work is needed? Daniel

Stumbled across this: http://physics.kenyon.edu/EarlyApparatus/A...concertina.html . Is that concertina really associated with Wheatstone, or is it a mis-match? Looks more like an early German one to me, though with an odd key pattern. Daniel

How about this thing, currently on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/Melodens1884-Accordion...itemZ7392768419 ?

I would avoid these. They are most likely Chinese-made no-names and will probably reflect poor workmanship and quality control. Your best bet for a new low-end 30-button Anglo at this point is a Stagi from Button Box (see http://www.buttonbox.com/stocklist.shtml#anglo30 ) Stagi's quality control is not that consistent either and Button Box will warranty the instrument and ensure that it's in good working shape, which so far as I know is a service that no other dealer will offer. If you want to spend less money, a used Stagi or Bastari (same basic instrument, older name) such as http://cgi.ebay.com/Anglo-Concertina-30-Ke...itemZ7393294405 would probably be a better idea than the concertinas you're looking at. And if you're willing to wait, the Rochelle concertina from Concertina Connection is likely to be a good bet for a low-end Anglo, but it's not available for sale yet, though expected soon. This topic has often been discussed here before and others are likely to offer their comments too. Daniel

Thanks, Richard--that piece of software did the trick. (And thanks to Jeff and others for your suggestions too.) Daniel While you can crop in MS Paint, I don't think you can resample/resize photos. There are a bunch of free photo manipulators out there though - Google for "reduce file sizes freeware". This one looks pretty easy. I suggest keeping your photo in jpg as progressive color images (photos) will be smaller files with far more colors that gif.

Thanks, Jim--that's exactly what I meant, and put very clearly too. That's why I said "parallel" minor rather than "relative." I didn't bother to edit my post to get them into the right order but will do so now. Daniel Isn't the relative minor for G Em? In standard musical terminology, the "relative minor" of G is Em. Yes. But I think what Daniel must have been referring to is the "sort of minor" Dorian scale in each row, though he wrote them in reverse order. I.e., D-dorian is found in the C row and A-dorian in the G row. To most people, the dorian also sounds "minor", even if it's not the same in official terminology. And if your tune doesn't include the 7th of the scale, then there's no way to tell whether it's D-dorian or D-Aeolian (the "real" minor). In any case, it's that D "minor" (dorian) scale that's easy to play on the C row -- by starting on the pull, rather than on the push, -- and similarly the A "minor" (dorian) on the G row. The "relative" minors of the primary keys in each row, Am for the C row and Em for the G row, don't fall as easily under the fingers as the Dorian "minors".

To answer Mike's question a bit more directly: an Anglo has two "home" keys, most often C and G. In those keys (and in their "parallel" minor keys Dm and Am) basic harmonizing is very easy--if you play a note of the melody line and an adjacent button on the same row you will most likely get an acceptable harmony note, usually a third. Fuller chords in those keys are just as easy--any button when you press in the bellows on the G row, for example, will be within the G chord. But as you move away from the home keys it gets more difficult and non-intuitive. I only play Anglo, so I won't try to comment on chording on English or the Duet systems. Daniel Mike, In my opinion, "soul" and "body" are not the same thing. It's certainly possible for an Anglo player to harmonize a melody "at will" providing that they are playing most of the melody notes on the right hand side of the instrument, leaving the left hand free for chording, as has been discussed at length here on threads such as "The English style of Anglo playing". What an Anglo player can't always do easily is to choose chord patterns outside the basic 1,4 and 5 plus relative minor. The more buttons on your instrument, and the more experience you have, the better your chances of doing something more complicated. Harmony can certainly add body and colour to a bare melody. "Soul", however, rests to a significant extent in dynamics, and since volume variations in the concertina family are produced by bellows pressure, not finger pressure, it follows that any notes played simultaneously are subject to the same dynamic variation. You can't easily do what the pianist does, and play a quiet accompaniment while producing crescendos in the melody (my musical training is basic and rusty, and my acoustics training non-existant, so please excuse any incorrect jargon). Playing single notes allows you to express wide dynamic range without submerging the melody beneath full-volume harmony. Which is partly why, having for years played an exclusively chorded style of Anglo, I recently got interested in playing some tunes as bare melodies instead. Otherwise I though Jody's summary of the relative strengths of the different systems put it well. Brian

Slightly of topic, but thought that I'd ask--does anyone know if there's a way to do that with included XP software (Paint, etc.) or do I need Photoshop or something similar? (I do realize that I could just take another picture...) Daniel yes, I had the same problem. I had to reduce the size to (I belive) about 120KB, that seemed to work. fun site, although i need to find my way around better. see you there. chris rose

So I'm now on it, and I'm encouraging other players in my area to join it too....but has anyone else had trouble uploading a photo there? I tried a jpg but it didn't take and was wondering if maybe the file size (285KB) was too large. Daniel

Welcome! I'd say that tunes are more commonly played on Anglo, song accompaniment on English, but there are many fine players who do the opposite quite effectively. Both Anglo and English have something weird about them--but they're different things. On an Anglo, each button plays two different notes, depending on whether you're pushing or pulling the bellows. I've known some people who've tried to learn Anglo who never managed to deal with that. On an English each button plays just one note, but the scale goes back and forth between the two hands, typically two notes on one hand followed by two on the other. I've known other people (including me!) who find that counter-intuitive and confusing. Your background on the pipes may make Anglo a better bet for you--the scale going up one hand and then the other is sort of parallel to the way an Anglo works. I had a background in woodwinds myself (clarinet, bassoon, recorder, tin whistle) and found it relatively easy to get started on Anglo. But I also played piano and that may have made a difference too, as the way you use your hands on a piano is even closer to that on an Anglo. On the other hand, there's Alistair Anderson as an example of a great player of small pipes and English concertina. In the end, your best bet may be to find a shop or group of players on your area where you can try out both systems and find out which comes more easily to you. Daniel

Speaks for itself: http://cgi.ebay.com/German-made-Concertina...itemZ7392177541 . Daniel

That's the full run, published somewhat intermittently from 1983 to 1995. It's hard to summarize the content but there were a number of excellent articles on concertinas and concertina music and (in the later years) covering various types of button accordions as well. Daniel

Slight thread drift here...but after I read this I took a look at a German concertina that I've got and saw that it's set up this way. I do play seated but hadn't noticed it before. The concertina winds up tilted a little away from me and the angle of my hands is a bit different than with an English-built concertina but I don't find that it causes a major problem in playing. Daniel

Thanks once again to all of you for your advice. I have ordered a Sony DVR which I believe is the successor to the ICD-ST and hope to eventually use it to record and post some tunes. Daniel I'm going to keep in mind that Sony ICD-MX20VTP. I like the memory-card option, the removable storage (...a new thing, to me, these days!). I currently have a Sony ICD-ST. I did buy an appropriate, recommended-type of external mic for it, too, but, I prefer the sound I get using the built-in mic. Of course, I must use their software, and covert the files to .wav and then to .mp3. I really like this little recorder....glad I got it. Recently, too, I got a PoGo RipFlash Plus from ebay. (They are VERY hard to find!) I'm not sorry I got it, and for the low price that I did, but it's definitely not as good -- in my opinion -- as the Sony. Of course, I did get a used PoGo. Anyway, it's not a loss for me, since I wanted an MP3 player and it plays them. It will also directly record an MP3, but -- I've had mixed luck with it, and there seems to be more tech support and so on for the Sony gadgets. I should say, too, that I haven't really tried my best to get the greatest possible recordings. I try to get at least 'good' Mp3s. So...if you listen to my files, which are done with the Sony, keep in mind that there are a lot of variables!!!

Thanks! I had already decided to pass this concertina up since no one had given me a positive response. But someone decided to spend $150 for it. Daniel

Then there's this one: EDEO - Episcopal Diocesan Ecumenical Officers. The national network of those holding ecumenical responsibilities in Episcopal Church dioceses. Good on your husband for noting the connection between "e" and "oi". In fact, "œdema" -- often spelled "edema" -- is a common English/Latin medical term for "swelling". Could be an example of multiple-meaning wordplay, as "swelling" is a frequent description of the sound of an organ, the instrument "swells" when the bellows is pulled, and the 12-sided shape of the ends could be viewed as a "swollen" hexagon. (The instrument also "inflames" passions, both pro and con, a condition often connected medically with swelling. ) We still don't know, but the speculation is fun. I find it interesting, though, that Lachenal spelled it "Edeophone" rather than "Œdeophone", while Wheatstone did spell theirs "Æola", not "Aeola" or "Aola". Hey Paul Read, if you start making 8-sided concertinas, will you call them "Eholas".

Thanks, Theo and Greg. The seller has now helpfully added several more photos and a couple of comments indicating that it's German. It's a very pretty instrument. http://cgi.ebay.com/Concertina-Squeeze-Box...itemZ7391323652 Daniel Another fetuare of German ones is the way the buttos are made of wood with a bone or plastic cap. You can clearly see a division between two materials on the ebay photo. On German action the buttons tilt slightly as they move so the holes have to have a significant clearance round the button. On Lachenal and other English makes the hole acts as a guide for the button so must be a close fit.