Concertinas And The Sea

[Dan Worrall]

One more little reference.

If one goes to the National Maritime Museum in Greenwich (UK), you will find the following instrument in their collection:

 

 Concertina by C Jones, Patent concertina manufacturer, used by seaman William Figg in the 1860s on board HMS Royal Oak and Juno.

 

So this seaman could even afford a Jones anglo...and it not only survived years at sea aboard two different sailing vessels, it has made it another 140 years in storage.

Concertinas at sea--I guess this about cinches it. We've found the body now, and it is lying in the morgue.

 

Anybody living nearby who can post a photo and some more info on it?

 

Ref: http://www.nmm.ac.uk/server/show/conWebDoc.../setPaginate/No

Edited June 5, 2007 by Dan Worrall

[Stephen Chambers]

Regarding Stan Hugill's comment that he never saw a concertina at sea...well, he wouldn't have, because he came along after the anglo-german and german concertina craze was over. As I mentioned in my article, in the US it was essentially dead...derided as old fashioned...by the turn of the century. ... Hugill didn't go to sea until the 1920s (he was born in 1906)...so he would not have seen them any more then than one would see it today.

Dan,

 

That may have been the case in the US, but there is solid evidence of twentieth century British sailors (especially in the Royal Navy) playing the concertina (English, Anglo and duet systems), like that August 1914 photo of Joe Irving aboard Endurance. And let's not forget "Father Ken" (how could we? ) serving on a WW2 warship with the semi-miniature 24-key Wheatstone that Jacqueline McCarthy now plays.

 

But it seems that Stan Hugill never encountered one of them, which gives an indication of how common they were...

 

I suspect that the sailors were just like their landlubber counterparts; when the A-G was hot, the sailors were caught up in the same craze.

I've suggested as much myself, and it seems to have applied to other fashionable instruments too, such as the banjo.

Edited May 10, 2008 by Stephen Chambers

[JimLucas]

I suspect that the sailors were just like their landlubber counterparts; when the A-G was hot, the sailors were caught up in the same craze.

I've suggested as much myself, and it seems to have applied to other fashionable instruments too, such as the banjo.

The

banjo

?

Fashionable

??

!!!

Edited June 5, 2007 by JimLucas

[Daniel Hersh]

Watch it, buddy...my wife plays the banjo.

She actually does, though not often these days.

I suspect that the sailors were just like their landlubber counterparts; when the A-G was hot, the sailors were caught up in the same craze.

I've suggested as much myself, and it seems to have applied to other fashionable instruments too, such as the banjo.

The

banjo

?

Fashionable

??

!!!

[JimLucas]

The banjo?

Fashionable

??

!!!

Watch it, buddy...my wife plays the banjo.

I guess it wouldn't be wise to call her unfashionable, eh?

[Boney]

The banjo?

Fashionable

??

!!!

From www.classicbanjo.com:

By the mid-1880s America and England were in the midst of a banjo craze: thousands of pieces for the banjo had been published, from simple marches and dances to arrangements of operatic overtures. Highly paid soloists toured extensively, performing original compositions, popular music of the day and transcriptions of music by Handel, Schumann and Mendelssohn. Banjo teachers were readily available in every city, each professing to teach the true method of playing the banjo.

[JimLucas]

The banjo?

Fashionable

??

!!!

From

www.classicbanjo.com

:

By the mid-1880s America and England were in the midst of a banjo craze: thousands of pieces for the banjo had been published, from simple marches and dances to arrangements of operatic overtures. Highly paid soloists toured extensively, performing original compositions, popular music of the day and transcriptions of music by Handel, Schumann and Mendelssohn. Banjo teachers were readily available in every city, each professing to teach the true method of playing the banjo.

My tongue was in fact deeply embedded in my cheek.

Sorry for not providing a photo.

 

I've long been aware of classical banjo and enjoy well-played banjo in many idioms.

Thanks for the link.

[John Adey]

All this has piqued my interest; I'll start doing a little more research, with a little history as the goal. If anyone has suggestions on where I might look, it would be most appreciated.

 

Dan

 

Dan,

I mentioned J Kp's views to Colin Dipper when I picked up an instrument from him a couple of days ago. He, Colin, quoted various instances of instruments being recorded as being on board ships and one of a concertina that was recoverable after being washed up on shore from a vesssel that sank. So a call to CD might provide one source for your research.

 

John

[Dan Worrall]

Dan,

I mentioned J Kp's views to Colin Dipper when I picked up an instrument from him a couple of days ago. He, Colin, quoted various instances of instruments being recorded as being on board ships and one of a concertina that was recoverable after being washed up on shore from a vesssel that sank. So a call to CD might provide one source for your research.

 

John

John,

 

Many thanks! I'll call Colin and check it out. Dangerous calling Colin....I'll be sorely tempted to place an order!

[Dan Worrall]

Regarding Stan Hugill's comment that he never saw a concertina at sea...well, he wouldn't have, because he came along after the anglo-german and german concertina craze was over. As I mentioned in my article, in the US it was essentially dead...derided as old fashioned...by the turn of the century. ... Hugill didn't go to sea until the 1920s (he was born in 1906)...so he would not have seen them any more then than one would see it today.

Dan,

 

That may have been the case in the US, but there is solid evidence of twentieth century British sailors (especially in the Royal Navy) playing the concertina (English, Anglo and duet systems), like that August 1914 photo of Joe Irving aboard Endurance. And let's not forget "Father Ken" (how could we? ) serving on a WW2 submarine with the semi-miniature 24-key Wheatstone that Jacqueline McCarthy now plays.

 

But it seems that Stan Hugill never encountered one of them, which gives an indication of how common they were...

 

Stephen,

Thanks.

I haven't been able to find the quote from Hugill (that he NEVER saw a concertina at sea)...do you know where it can be found, and what its context was? As you say, there certainly were some (albeit uncommon) twentieth century sailors playing them (I posted a photo of the Endurance EC earlier in this thread), and Hugill was, after all, a twentieth century sailor...how is it he never saw one when, as you say, they were there? Just goes to show you that it is difficult to rely purely on anecdotal negative evidence, even from an expert...it is only a part of the story.

But the real issue, as we both know, is whether sailors played them (or better yet, commonly played them) in the nineteenth century. Hugill's personal experiences don't reach back that far. We have multiple sources of documentation (quite a few listed above, by several contributors) that says they were. The 'common' part of the equation will require some digging.

Cheers,

Dan

[Dan Worrall]

Well, I did call Colin, and my worst fears have been realized. With no prompting from Colin, I ordered a second Dipper (I’ve had my other for nearly two decades). Oh well.

 

But I also ran to ground the leads I received from John earlier today. Here is what I learned:

 

1) Colin has a friend on Jersey who owns a Jeffries that has been in the family over a hundred years. An ancestor found it washed ashore after the “clipper ship Liverpool” went on the rocks nearby, in the late 1800s. The family later ascertained that it had belonged to the bosun on that ill fated ship. Stephen, we may have your clipper ship.

ps. For David Letterman watchers (US TV), if he ever plays the game "Will It Float" with a Jeffries concertina, the answer must be 'yes', if it is airtight. At least until the pads dissolve!

2) The Great Britain, launched in the 1840s, made runs to Australia from England. It is now a museum ship in Bristol. On the information boards in the exhibit, there is period documentation that concertinas were played on board. Anyone live near there who could check this out? The Great Britain was plying the same run as the Suffolk, mentioned above and which also had a concertina-playing sailor.

3) Colin knows of a submariner, born in 1845, who was on the early trial submarines in the 1880s (I neglected to get his name). He played a concertina on board.

 

So now I think we have all that is needed to dismantle the urban myth that concertina playing at sea is in turn an urban myth: concertinas on sailing ships, clipper ships (that nearly by definition plyed Cape Horn), expensive concertinas on sailing ships (so that even Jeffries convertinas weren’t too expensive for a sailor to own and play), and at least two extant concertinas that were used during the age of sail. The ease with which this information has turned up suggests both that the concertina was commonly played, and that much more information can be dug up.

 

Cheers,

Dan

[yankeeclipper]

Colin knows of a submariner, born in 1845, who was on the early trial submarines in the 1880s (I neglected to get his name). He played a concertina on board.

 

If so, the concertina must indeed be waterproof! The only "early trial submarines in the 1880s" were dubious affairs cobbled up for the US and French navies; the best of them was probably John Holland's Fenian Ram, which was sponsored - and later stolen - by the Irish Republican Brotherhood in the US! No way did anyone "play a concertina on board" a submarine of any kind in the 1880s.

Edited June 5, 2007 by yankeeclipper

[Dirge]

An ancestor found it washed ashore

Hmmm. That might well be slightly euphemistic. The channels islands were hotbeds of piracy, wrecking and smuggling. I bet it never got properly wet.

 

My wife is reading George Melly's autobiography, 'Rum Bum and Concertina'

In the front of the book it explains that 'Ashore it's all wine, women and song, afloat it's just rum, bum and concertina' is an old Navy saying. I'm not sure whether it might be an old navy saying only in that George himself coined it a few years ago though.

[Dan Worrall]

Colin knows of a submariner, born in 1845, who was on the early trial submarines in the 1880s (I neglected to get his name). He played a concertina on board.

 

If so, the concertina must indeed be waterproof! The only "early trial submarines in the 1880s" were dubious affairs cobbled up for the US and French navies; the best of them was probably John Holland's Fenian Ram, which was sponsored - and later stolen - by the Irish Republican Brotherhood in the US! No way did anyone "play a concertina on board" a submarine of any kind in the 1880s.

 

Hmmm...not sure here. Just reporting what I *thought* I heard.

There was a US Navy competition in the 1880s for an improved design, which the inventor Holland won. By 1897 his 'Holland VI' had a crew of 6, a toilet, and a capability to stay down as long as 40 hours. Colin only said his fellow was in the early testing of submarines, which the Royal Navy certainly did in the late 1800s...they couldn't let their guard down if outher countries were doing it (the French had a 148 footer by 1898; even the Greeks and Turks had purchased early and unsuccessful designs in the late 1880s). By 1900 the Royal Navy had five Hollands on order...so they obviously had spent a fair bit of time testing them out. It wasn't without some hand wringing. From www.submarine-history.com:

 

By October 1900, the British had five Hollands on order, but not until senior naval leadership had wrestled with a moral dilemma: they, like many others through the years, believed that covert warfare was, basically, illegal. Gentlemen fought each other face to face, wearing easily recognized uniforms. The Navy agreed to proceed with caution, primarily to "test the value of the submarine as a weapon in the hands of our enemies."

However; Rear Admiral A. K. Wilson assured himself of a certain immortality by declaring that the submarine was "underhand, unfair, and damned UnEnglish." The government, he wrote, should "treat all submarines as pirates in wartime . . . and hang all crews."

 

Next time I speak with Colin (maybe when I take delivery of my new Dipper!), I'll try to nail down his story (and probably my reporting of it) a bit more.

[paperpunchr]

An ancestor found it washed ashore

Hmmm. That might well be slightly euphemistic. The channels islands were hotbeds of piracy, wrecking and smuggling. I bet it never got properly wet.

 

 

 

 

Aye, he took it up to the house and wiped the salt spray off with a damp rag, and so it was "washed, ashore."

(Retired Former Naval Person)

Edited June 5, 2007 by paperpunchr

[yankeeclipper]

By October 1900, the British had five Hollands on order...

 

According to their Submarine Museum, the Royal Navy took delivery of their first sub, the Holland I, in 1901. Surprisingly, for the world's greatest maritime power at the time, the UK seems to have had almost no interest in submarine development prior to the 20th century. To the contrary, the Royal Navy was simply the intended target for the Irish Fenians who funded Holland's first successful sub (also called Holland I) 20 years earlier! The Americans, Irish, Swedes, French, Greeks, Turks and even the Spaniards (perhaps hoping for a second and more successful Armada) were all ahead of the English in recognizing the military potential of submarines.

Edited June 5, 2007 by yankeeclipper

[Dirge]

By October 1900, the British had five Hollands on order, but not until senior naval leadership had wrestled with a moral dilemma: they, like many others through the years, believed that covert warfare was, basically, illegal. Gentlemen fought each other face to face, wearing easily recognized uniforms. The Navy agreed to proceed with caution, primarily to "test the value of the submarine as a weapon in the hands of our enemies."

However; Rear Admiral A. K. Wilson assured himself of a certain immortality by declaring that the submarine was "underhand, unfair, and damned UnEnglish." The government, he wrote, should "treat all submarines as pirates in wartime . . . and hang all crews."

Of course about this time the Boers were giving us painful but certainly not wasted lessons in the use of camouflage and how to shoot at people at long range from behind rocks. That might have encouraged their Lordships into commissioning the naval equivalent of such lurkers. RN subs still gleefully fly a jolly roger on return from a mission in answer to the quoted admiral.

[m3838]

Wow!

English Military had moral dilemmas!

Good old times.