Concertinas And The Sea

[Stephen Chambers]

Colin knows of a submariner, born in 1845, who was on the early trial submarines in the 1880s (I neglected to get his name). He played a concertina on board.

No way did anyone "play a concertina on board" a submarine of any kind in the 1880s.

Sure, it must've been John Philip Holland himself, wasn't he a County Clare man after all?

 

(John Philip Holland, born in 1841 to John and Mary Scanlon Holland in Liscannor, Co. Clare.)

 

Mind you, Micho Russell used to sing a great song about him, but I don't remember any mention of a concertina in it...

Edited June 7, 2007 by Stephen Chambers

[Dan Worrall]

Colin knows of a submariner, born in 1845, who was on the early trial submarines in the 1880s (I neglected to get his name). He played a concertina on board.

 

If so, the concertina must indeed be waterproof! The only "early trial submarines in the 1880s" were dubious affairs cobbled up for the US and French navies; the best of them was probably John Holland's Fenian Ram, which was sponsored - and later stolen - by the Irish Republican Brotherhood in the US! No way did anyone "play a concertina on board" a submarine of any kind in the 1880s.

 

Never say never!

Although the Royal Navy ordered their first five Holland subs in 1900, in all likelihood having thoroughly tested them in the late 1800s (as I reported above), others in the UK were already testing and even building them. From http://www.submarineheritage.com/history.html#1877 :

The Iron Shipbuilding Company was founded in 1871 by James Ramsden, General Manager of the Furness Railway Company who became first mayor of the new town of Barrow-in-Furness in Lancashire (now Cumbria). However, on registering the new company in 1872, the name was changed to the Barrow Ship Building Company (BSBC) when it was realised that there was already another company building iron ships further down the coast at Birkenhead.

They received their first naval vessel order from the British Admiralty in 1877 and cut their submarine-building teeth in 1886 on two steam-engined boats for the Swedish industrialist and arms dealer Thorsten Nordenfelt. These were ultimately sold to Turkey and Russia. The Turkish boat, Abdul Hamid, was dismantled for delivery by ship and re-erected at Taskizak Tersanesi shipyard, Istanbul. She achieved fame as the world's first submarine to fire a torpedo underwater. The submarine for Russia never reached her customer, foundering on the Jutland (Danish) coast on her delivery voyage.

 

Colin never said his British submariner was in the RN...just that he was involved in the early trial testing of submarines in the 1880s or so. Fits with the above UK company in Cumbria. Looks to me from the attached photo of the UK-built Abdul Hamid that you could fit more than one concertina-toting tester on board. Maybe the testers were getting bored with all the mechanical problems and had some waiting on their hands....who knows. No way?

[yankeeclipper]

The Turkish boat, Abdul Hamid, was dismantled for delivery by ship and re-erected at Taskizak Tersanesi shipyard, Istanbul. She achieved fame as the world's first submarine to fire a torpedo underwater.

 

I believe the Abdul Hamid also "achieved fame" by being the world's first submarine sunk by her own torpedo. When that first 'fish' was launched, the sub went down by the stern - the designer neglected to account for the sudden loss of forward ballast!

 

As far as I've been able to find, the Royal Navy never spent a shilling on submarine development in the 19th century. The only experimental sub originating in the UK was invented by an Anglican clergyman and sold to a Swedish armaments firm without attracting any interest from the Admiralty. Perhaps Mr. Dipper's musical submariner was a Swede?

 

Submarines in the 1880s were small, cramped, extremely dicey boats which sank all too easily (and frequently) to be used for extended cruising the high seas. They were not operational, and very experimental - anyone on board would have been focused on survival. Would you care to play a hornpipe on a boat that might sink at any moment? Can a sailor stay well puckered while ripping off a reel?

Edited June 6, 2007 by yankeeclipper

[Dan Worrall]

The Turkish boat, Abdul Hamid, was dismantled for delivery by ship and re-erected at Taskizak Tersanesi shipyard, Istanbul. She achieved fame as the world's first submarine to fire a torpedo underwater.

 

I believe the Abdul Hamid also "achieved fame" by being the world's first submarine sunk by her own torpedo.

 

As far as I've been able to find, the Royal Navy never spent a shilling on submarine development in the 19th century. The only experimental sub originating in the UK was invented by an Anglican clergyman and sold to a Swedish armaments firm without attracting any interest from the Admiralty. Perhaps Mr. Dipper's musical submariner was a Swede?

 

Submarines in the 1880s were small, cramped, extremely dicey boats which sank all too easily (and frequently) to be used for extended cruising the high seas. They were not operational, and very experimental - anyone on board would have been focused on survival. Would you care to play a hornpipe on a boat that might sink at any moment? Can a sailor stay well puckered while ripping off a reel?

 

I dunno. Apparently, this 19th century 'submariner' said that he did, and much, much stranger things have happened. To reiterate, the facts are that there indeed were early submarines tried and built in the UK during the time period Colin mentioned, and there is nothing that says this person was in the RN, and no one said there were any extended trips. That's really all I can say about this secondhand report from Colin; you are obviously free to believe it or not.

[JimLucas]

Would you care to play a hornpipe on a boat that might sink at any moment?

Beats biting my fingernails.

 

Can a sailor stay well puckered while ripping off a reel?

I'm sure a real sailor could. Maybe even a submariner.

A submarine with masts and sails? Interesting concept.

Could that be why those early attempts at underwater boats had so many problems?

[yankeeclipper]

Would you care to play a hornpipe on a boat that might sink at any moment?

Beats biting my fingernails.

 

Can a sailor stay well puckered while ripping off a reel?

I'm sure a real sailor could. Maybe even a submariner.

 

Oh, I suppose it's okay to drown a concertina, so long as it's an Anglo.

[JimLucas]

Oh, I suppose it's okay to drown a concertina, so long as it's an Anglo.

I seem to recall Jeffries that survived a journey below the surface of a canal.

[Stephen Chambers]

Oh, I suppose it's okay to drown a concertina, so long as it's an Anglo.

I seem to recall Jeffries that survived a journey below the surface of a canal.

But please don't try this at home folks...

[Stephen Chambers]

A submarine with masts and sails? Interesting concept.

Could that be why those early attempts at underwater boats had so many problems?

Jim,

 

The first successful submarine, built by Dutchman Cornelius van Drebbel in 1620 while working for the British Navy, relied on oars to propel it underwater.

 

For that matter, so too did the original version of the Union submarine Alligator during the American Civil War.

[yankeeclipper]

The Drebbel, with its leather sides, might have also become the first squeeze-box - especially at depth! Interesting link about the Union sub; was it really an 'alligator,' or just a 'croc'?

[Stephen Chambers]

I haven't been able to find the quote from Hugill (that he NEVER saw a concertina at sea)...do you know where it can be found, and what its context was?

Dan,

 

I'm simply going on what Stuart M. Frank, Director, The Kendall Whaling Museum says in his article "Concertina Around Cape Horn" (in C & S, Spring 1984, Vol. II, No. 2, pp. 10-18):

 

The square-rig sailors who have survived to tell of the experiences with shipboard music - including the late Carl Andersen of Mystic Seaport Museum, Captain A.F. Raynaud (now a marine surveyor in Seattle who was involved in the restoration of the Star of India in San Diego), and the irrepressible Stan Hugill of Aberdovey, Wales - are all unanimous in claiming never to have seen a concertina on shipboard, even once.

 

Interesting link about the Union sub; was it really an 'alligator,' or just a 'croc'?

Maybe just an allegory on the banks of the Appomattox? (with apologies to Sheridan's Mrs. Malaprop)

[Stephen Chambers]

The bulk of evidence is that the backbone of the concertina trade (in sheer numbers) was the German and Anglo-German concertina....in the US, in Ireland, and even in England. A 1907 interview with an Englishwoman named Hawkes, a high class type who played the EC, derided the "cheap German atrocities with which Bank Holidays make us all too familiar"...

Christine Hawkes' comment should probably be considered not simply as snobbishness, but in the context of other contemporary evidence:

 

By the 1880s the image of the (English) concertina as a "serious" instrument had been badly tarnished by association with the cheap German instrument and rowdy players of it. In 1889 George Bernard Shaw in praising the English concertina, wrote that it was not to be confused with "the Teutonic instrument of the midnight Mohawk" ...

 

By the 1890s the reputation of the concertina had fallen so low that the subject of calling the English instrument something other than "concertina" was being seriously discussed by teachers and manufacturers ...

 

Dan,

 

And speaking of Christine Hawkes; under the circumstances you may be amused to see the very interesting Punch cartoon that I've just bought, from 18th November 1908 (so around the time the Cassell's Magazine article about her appeared), in which she is to be seen attired as a "neglected artiste (performer on the European Concertina)" [but evidently a 20-key German concertina ] waiting in the wings of a music-hall.

 

 

Compare the cartoon drawing with a photograph of Christine Hawkes (below):

 

 

I'd say that she may have been "not amused" ...

[Dan Worrall]

Stephen,

 

What a laugh...and what a great cartoon! It does indeed look like the grand dame herself.

 

It's items like that that make digging around old newspapers and magazines worth it! Congrats, and

many thanks!!

 

Dan

[JimLucas]

Cassell's Magazine article

What a wonderful article! And with so many comments relevant to various ongoing topics here on C.net. (Though I wonder at the writer's mention of "a split reed" where it seems clear that "a split bellows" is meant.)

 

It's clear from that one article -- in case we didn't already know, -- that the concertina has had its downs and ups. And so why not "up", again? Doomsayers, beware.

 

As for the cartoon, I'm quite curious as to what "conference" is being referred to. I presume the cartoonist was far more familiar with contemporary politics than with either concertinas or Miss Hawkes career. (Did she perform on the music hall stage?) But it's worth noting that she was apparently sufficiently famous as a performer to be borrowed as a symbol in Punch.

[Stephen Chambers]

... I'm quite curious as to what "conference" is being referred to.

Jim,

 

The 1908 European Conference concerned the annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina by the Austro-Hungarian Emperor Franz Joseph, in violation of the agreement made in Berlin in 1878. Europe was shocked by it, and though war was averted that year, it was one of the events that lead to the outbreak of the First World War (and ongoing problems in the region).

 

I presume the cartoonist was far more familiar with contemporary politics than with either concertinas or Miss Hawkes career. (Did she perform on the music hall stage?) But it's worth noting that she was apparently sufficiently famous as a performer to be borrowed as a symbol in Punch.

Christine Hawkes was a concert artiste and I suspect that she would have considered the music-hall beneath her, and she would probably have thought the showgirl's dress in which she is depicted to be tawdry and downright indecent - why, it shows her ankles!

Edited June 11, 2007 by Stephen Chambers

[JimLucas]

The 1908 European Conference concerned the annexation of Bosnia and Herzegovina by the Austro-Hungarian Emperor Franz Joseph, in violation of the agreement made in Berlin in 1878.

I presume the cartoonist was far more familiar with contemporary politics than with either concertinas or Miss Hawkes career. (Did she perform on the music hall stage?) But it's worth noting that she was apparently sufficiently famous as a performer to be borrowed as a symbol in Punch.

Christine Hawkes was a concert artiste and I suspect that she would have considered the music-hall beneath her, and she would probably have thought the showgirl's dress in which she is depicted to be tawdry and downright indecent - why, it shows her ankles!

Hmm. I think I'll reconsider my surmise regarding the cartoonist's familiarity with Christine Hawkes. With the number of "mistakes" in depicting her, they may be no mistakes at all. It could be that he's deliberately suggesting that both she and the Conference are claiming significance and accomplishments beyond (the artist's conception of) reality. '"Killing two birds with one stone", as it were.

[Dan Worrall]

I haven't been able to find the quote from Hugill (that he NEVER saw a concertina at sea)...do you know where it can be found, and what its context was?

Dan,

 

I'm simply going on what Stuart M. Frank, Director, The Kendall Whaling Museum says in his article "Concertina Around Cape Horn" (in C & S, Spring 1984, Vol. II, No. 2, pp. 10-18):

 

The square-rig sailors who have survived to tell of the experiences with shipboard music - including the late Carl Andersen of Mystic Seaport Museum, Captain A.F. Raynaud (now a marine surveyor in Seattle who was involved in the restoration of the Star of India in San Diego), and the irrepressible Stan Hugill of Aberdovey, Wales - are all unanimous in claiming never to have seen a concertina on shipboard, even once.

 

Stephen,

 

Stuart Frank’s living sources suffer from the same problem that Stan Hugill did: they came too late. Stuart’s comment relies on oral sources from the present and near past. The last of the CapeHorners was in the mid twentieth century; we need to be looking several generations farther back.

 

But Frank (who by the way has made several shanty recordings using ECs and anglos) does do a marvelous job in very painstakingly documenting one little anglo-german instrument, now in the Mariner’s Museum in Newport News, that belonged to a working sailor who had it on passages on a sailing ship through Cape Horn. He sums up several pages of data and analysis with this:

 

There can be but little doubt, based upon the corroborative oral ‘history’ of the concertina and the few pieces of physical evidence (the end stampings and the news clipping (found inside it)), combined with the well-documented histories of the Wavertree and moon and son (ships chandlers in Plymouth), that: this Anglo concertina originated in Germany and was exported to the British market; was acquired (probably by a sailor) form Moon & Son, purveyors to the maritime trade in the seaport town of Plymouth and its environs; went around Cape Horn in a sailing ship, date and vessel unknown; and was brought ashore at Victoria (B.C.) in December 1906 or January 1907 by a sailor, name unknown but possibly the same sailor who had brought it all the way from England, recently arrived from Newcastle, N.S.W., in the ship Wavertree of Newcastle-upon-Tyne.

It was almost certainly a sailor’s concertina in the Wavertree. More importantly, the Plymouth connection suggests that for ship chandlers to carry Anglo concertinas among their regular wares was perhaps more common than the absence of other evidence would indicate. For surely, when all else is said and done, the little German-made anglo bears the name of a well-known Plymouth firm, and even had it not found its way to sea, others like it must have been acquired by sailors and played aboard ship.

 

The ship chandlers’ connection is important, and it echoes what is known about the arrival of the anglo in Ireland. To quote Fintann Vallely in his ‘Companion to Irish Traditional Music’ (1999, Cork Univ. Press):

 

The concertina arrived originally in Co. Clare in the late 1800s in a variety of ways… (the first of which is via) river traffic to and from Limerick along the lower Shannon, one of the last ports of call for ships crossing the north Atlantic. Maritime chandlers stocked cheap German concertinas as part of their trade merchandise, and many of these were exchanged with river pilots and fishing communities on both sides of the Shannon in Clare, Limerick, and Kerry.

 

Stuart Frank had no access to digital newspapers back in 1984 when he wrote the passage that you quoted. Cobbled together from my above postings, here is what we have so far on concertinas at sea; I’ll keep slowly plugging away and expect to find quite a bit more:

 

1855: 88 ton British schooner on voyage to Tierra del Fuego has concertina on board; crew member played it to amuse natives

1862: Confederate navy sailors from the raider Alabama play one in Liverpool harbor

1862: emigrants on board Manchester report "concertinas in full blast", though the emigrants may have been doing the playing

1860s: sailor William Figg, aboard HMS Royal Oak and Juno, owns and plays a Jones anglo while at sea, instrument now in the National Maritime Museum, Greenwich

1878: sailors in their forecastle quarters of the English ship City of Chester play concertina and dance a jig

1879: Sailors on board Suffolk, sailing from Melbourne to London, play concertina with bones and tambourine to ease boredom

1880: crew of the City of Brussels play concertina and banjo for passengers

1891: bargemen in NY harbor playing concertina instead of working, causing accident

1898: sailors on US Man o' War playing concertina

1898: Christmas programmes on board US Man o’ Wars utilize concertina

1902: sailors on US Naval training vessel play concertina

Late 1800s/1907: Anglo-German concertina purchased by sailor form ships chandler in Plymouth, played while on board sailing ship Wavertree, and was earlier used in passage around Cape Horn.

From oral histories, yet unchecked:

Late 1800s: Jeffries anglo, played by bosun on ‘clipper’ Liverpool, found in Jersey, near shipwreck

Late 1800s: concertina used aboard Great Britain, on Australia-London runs

Late 1800s: early submariner plays concertina during sea trials, England

 

Cheers,

Dan

 

Edited June 12, 2007 by Dan Worrall

[JimLucas]

...here is what we have so far on concertinas at sea; I’ll keep slowly plugging away and expect to find quite a bit more:

 

1855: 88 ton British schooner on voyage to Tierra del Fuego has concertina on board; crew member played it to amuse natives

...

From oral histories, yet unchecked:

Late 1800s: Jeffries anglo, played by bosun on ‘clipper’ Liverpool, found in Jersey, near shipwreck

Late 1800s: concertina used aboard Great Britain, on Australia-London runs

Late 1800s: early submariner plays concertina during sea trials, England

Note also this Topic, which I've just revisited.