Anglo- Right Hand Little Finger

[Sharron]

I know it might sound silly but my little finger on the right hand doesn't seem to want to play anything but the bottom row. It just feels like a piece of rubber on the other rows

My question is :- do you all use it? My little finger left hand is used to the F# and the next row up for the low B and G. But will the right hand one do the same? No chance

 

I suppose my left is used to moving for fiddle playing, but it took a few years and is still not the same strength as the other fingers. So is it worth perservering and exercising the little *blighter* or do some or hopefully most of you just use 3 fingers most of the time?

 

Sharron

[Alan Day]

Hallo Sharron,

First time I have spoken to you.

Yes I use the RH little finger a lot,but only because it is comfortable for me to do so,if you find it impossible try another route but initially give it a try.I have seen wonderfull anglo players only use the first two fingers but they moved their hands about all over the box at unbelievable speed.It is easy to move the fingers over whilst playing but it would have to be a style you would have to work on.

I find that finger exercises ( drumming on a table) can improve your muscle power and many players who have had accidents or strokes can with practice, to the best of their capabilities ,get their fingers working to the original speed.

Best of luck Sharron

Alan

[Sharron]

Thanks Alan for the reply.

 

Yep I thought as much, you know I hate exercise

 

It has taken ages for my left hand little finger for the fiddle, so guess it's the right hands turn, roll on the next few years

 

I would rather go down the correct route than the hit and miss approach I had with the fiddle, it just makes the job so much harder eventually. Just hoped that I might get away with it this time. Hmmm.

 

Sharron

[Rex]

I've been playing just a little over a year. My little fingers give me trouble also. I brought up the topic of tilting the concertina in the "ergonomics" section of this forum. I do this so my fingers line up with the buttons better. But I mainly use the three stronger fingers. I only use the little fingers for an occasional note. If the tune requires the little fingers for even a full measure I will shift my hands. This works for me. I have arthritis in my hands even though I'm only 42. I have also had some sports type injuries to the finger joints from playing sports and working on machinery. I cross rows a lot, in fact I think I cross rows in 90% of the tunes I play. This helps me a lot since I learned about it. One reason I started playing concertina was my left hand was having trouble playing the stringed instruments I have been playing for 30 years. Now I love playing the concertina and it does not make my fingers hurt afterward.

[Clive Thorne]

I use my little finger (pinky) on both hands all the time,.... well not as much as the other three, but I do use it a lot. In fact for anything at that end of the keyboard.

On the left hand I use it to put bass notes in the chords, or little bass runs. On the right hand, as well as when the tune goes up that end of the keyboard, I often use it with the third finger to put a little trill in above the tune (borrowed from my melodeon playing).

 

Although l'm a relative beginner on the concertina (anglo) I have played melodeon for 20 years so the mobility and strength was already there when I started concertina seriously (right hand as well since I use all four fingers on the melodeon bass).

 

If you haven't got that mobility yet then I (IMHO) would persevere with the exercises and practise. If not then you'll end up only using 75 % of your right hand's potential, which would be a shame.

 

Of course there is no right or wrong way, the above is only my opinion, and there are others in this forum who have been playing far longer and better than me.

 

 

Clive.

[Rhomylly]

I don't use my little fingers at all. I can see myself being one of those players that only uses the three middle fingers all the time.

 

Why don't I use my pinky? My hands are WAAAAAY small (I can wear children's size large mittens). My pinky can't reach anything far-button-wise -- I just measured and it's exactly 2 inches long-- so I use it to help grip the instrument.

[Sharron]

Thanks for the info.

 

I just knew it would be this way, but can't help trying to find the easy way out.

 

So I have decided to find tunes that use the keys in the middle row without using the easier alternatives just so I can get this finger working. Then depending how I get on I will throw some top row buttons in too. I am hoping that if I pick 2/3 tunes like this then it will hopefully get easier. I know I could do scales but it is much nicer to find a tune that does the work instead.

 

I now just need to find some tunes for the C/G that mainly use the outside edge to get the little fingers to work.

 

Any suggestions?

Preferably irish but anything with a bit of a *catch* to it.

 

Thanks

 

Sharron

[stuart estell]

Why don't I use my pinky? My hands are WAAAAAY small (I can wear children's size large mittens). My pinky can't reach anything far-button-wise -- I just measured and it's exactly 2 inches long-- so I use it to help grip the instrument.

Rhomylly - my little fingers are only very slightly longer than that, as I have small hands myself - and I doubt I'd get round the instrument if I didn't use them.

 

It may be worth experimenting with adjusting your hand-straps - you may have them a little too loose for your hands, which would make those distances just a bit further to reach.

 

All the best

Stuart

[Rhomylly]

I do have adjustable straps, lovely soft pigskin custom-made, and I've tried tightening them. Then I have trouble moving my fingers

 

Maybe I'm holding the concertina wrong...

[Sharron]

I know just what you mean about the holding thing.

The straps always seem a little loose to keep a firm enough hold but too tight to move the hand to get the fingers to reach.

I am keeping the straps tight enough but with a tiny bit of slack so I can move my hand enough to get to all rows and lift my fingers sufficiently to *try* for things like triplets. I am not sure how to get to do these things without slightly altering the position of the hand to get *especially* triplets on the F#/G, A/B buttons, I guess they just need limbering up a bit then of course to get the little finger to reach I have the difficulty mainly because I want to move my hand so as to help it until I have enough power for it to strike on it's own.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

Sharron

[Helen]

I love this forum. Where else would I read something, then be running around the house to get a yardstick to measure my little finger?

 

Rhomylly, my little finger is not much bigger than yours. I mentioned this to Frank Edgley in an email earlier this summer (having small hands) and he said the 24 button concertina is good for people with small hands. I'm thinking you still have a 20 button and have not moved up to a 30 button concertina yet. If so, you might want to try out a 24 button one first. It won't have every button, but is supposed to be especially good for Irish.

 

I'm still wavering about which type to get. I think finding a way to try some out is a good idea.

 

Sharron, soldier on. My little fingers are quite weak and lazy, well that might describe some other parts of me too. Maybe we can have an on-line support group and all try to do finger exercises!

 

Helen

[Clive Thorne]

My little finger is also fractionally over 2 inches, but I still find that there are notes that I can still reach more easily with that than with the 3rd finger. It may be short, but it does start furter down the hand !!

 

Clive.

 

Addendum (11/10/03): I should mention that my instrument is smaller than normal - 5 3/4 inches across the flats, so the keyboard may be more compressed as well.

 

Also, re strap tension: remember that your not limited to the holes that the manufacture put in the strap. Although typically only 10mm apart I find that the diffrence in handling and feel from one hole to the next is enormous. Don't be afraid to make your own hole!

Edited October 11, 2003 by Clive Thorne

[Rex]

Rhom,

I have played a Hohner like yours. The buttons on those stick out much farther than on other instruments. My old Chinese anglo had similar buttons. This makes a big difference in that you must lift your fingers up above those buttons and then press them down. The smaller buttons allow your fingers to stay lower, more economy of motion. Also the rows of my old anglo were perfectly straight. I think the Hohner is similar in that respect also. Many better instrument have the rows in a gentle arch so the the buttons your little fingers would work are closer to you. You might also want to try tilting the concertina away from you so it rests on the corner and not on the flat. We had a discussion about this over in the ergonomics section and I learned that some experts teach this method. It has worked for me. Like I said above, I don't use the little fingers more than I have to, but don't give up on ever using them just yet. I cannot imagine not having that low F#. My left pinky just sits near that button waiting for it's cue.

 

All,

You know what they say about guys with small hands? They have big feet. And you know what they say about guys with big feet? They have big shoes!!

[Rhomylly]

What accidentals are on the average 24-button? And would it "pass muster" at a Noel Hill week?

 

Those are my biggest concerns, I guess.

 

I'm not sure which would be easier for me either, a 30 button with 3 rows of 5 buttons each or the 24-button which, near as I can tell, has 2 rows of 6 buttons each. Gotta figure out a way to find out. Bob Tedrow is a 9-hour drive away, he's probably the closest...

 

Or maybe I should just bail on the Anglo all together and start over with a 48-button English. I played around some with a friend's 1924 Wheatstone (ahhh, the TONE compared to my new cheapie Hohner, it's like night and day) and the buttons are so smooshed together (relatively speaking) that if I had been able to figure out the note chart in the 15 minutes or so I had to play with it, I might have actually been more comfortable.

 

Grapple, grapple.

 

Meanwhile, I shall continue to work on learning how to read music and trying to strengthen the pinkies with my 20-button baby.

[Helen]

Rhomylly,

 

Yes, I also want to know if it would pass muster at Noel Hill workshops. Or if I should just go to Frank Edgley's workshops, since he designed the 24 button layout. At least the one I know about that he and Herrington use.

 

The 24 button (Edgley) has: C# D# C# F# going in both directions. Also D# G# A# (Bb) to make it fully chromatic. It's bias is toward making it like a D G instrument, especially good for Irish.

 

The idea is that most players don't use all of the buttons on the 30 and this instrument includes ones you use a lot going both directions.

 

There are 2 rows of 6 buttons both sides. Most of the instrument looks like a standard 20 button C G anglo.

 

Hopes this helps.

 

Helen

[Rhomylly]

Oh, man, those are like, all the accidentals I will ever need!!!!

 

Must ponder further. Wish there were likely to be one close by that I could try out.

 

Now over to the Anglo vs English debate, since I haven't totally ruled that option out yet.

 

And then to check and see if the Edgley rows curve.

 

And then on to practice!

[Rex]

Those are the ones I use also, but I would rather have them in an extra row. This thread was about not wanting to use the pinky.... wouldn't longer rows require more pinky action? How is the 24 laid out? I can see me never using all the buttons on a 30 just because of the tunes I choose to play on the concertina. F#, C#, and G#, with maybe a Bb are all the accidentals I can think of needing.

After thinking about this thread a bit I tried some of my favorite tunes that use the little finger but I tried playing them like Rhomylly does with just three fingers per side. On most of the tunes I actually liked shifting my fingers over a button and not using the pinky and this worked well for me. It didn't confuse my brain a bit (and that is easy to do ). I don't do bass runs on the concertina, we have a bass player in our band and at jams there is usually a guitar player and I let them handle that. I'm lucky to be able to breath and play melody at the same time, never mind adding chords.

[Ken_Coles]

Without changing this to a thread about NHICS, let me briefly note that I went not once, but twice with a clunky, double-reed, 20 button C/G Stagi. I'm not aware that any one else started out this low! If you read my little report on the learning page written about this 6 years ago, I report that neither Noel, nor any other teacher I ever have had on a musical instrument, made my instrument an issue. The only comment he ever made was that I should consider getting an instrument with the missing notes (back then that meant 26 or 30. I soon did). The value of getting lessons as a beginner outweighed any drawback of a minimal instrument, as I avoided some bad habits I might otherwise have developed.

 

Frank had that 24 (now on ebay) at the Squeeze-In. Like all his work it was very high quality, but the accidentals layout was different enough that I didn't try to figure it out in the short time I had to play it. But I have had no issues switching Lach and Jeff layouts, so I'm sure this difference is not a long-term issue for you. If the price difference with a 30 is enough to swing it, get the 24, I would say.

 

Ken