Jim Besser Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 (edited) >What? Not to the tune of that old (late 1950's?) song about the > Nash Rambler and the Cadillac?! I actually played that once at practice ("beep beep, beep beep, the nash went beep beep beep). The dancers were mystified ; they are all a little younger and shockingly ignorant. Edited October 15, 2004 by Jim Besser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 What? Not to the tune of that old (late 1950's?) song about the Nash Rambler and the Cadillac?! I actually played that once at practice ("beep beep, beep beep, the nash went beep beep beep). The dancers were mystified ; they are all a little younger and shockingly ignorant. You should find a copy of the orignal and play it for them. They really should be educated in the "traditon". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiminca Posted October 15, 2004 Share Posted October 15, 2004 Juice of Barley, to an English country dance tune, I believe. Is this the same as "Stingo, oyle of barley"? What tradition do you dance this in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted October 16, 2004 Share Posted October 16, 2004 >Is this the same as "Stingo, oyle of barley"? What tradition do you > dance this in? Looks like a different tune, and it's done in Sherborne. A nice looking dance, but the dancers say it is really hard on their older bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanette Hooker Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 I found all the responses quite interesting and very enlightening. I had no idea that both the tunes and dances varied so much (geographically). Are tunes learnt from printed music or aurally? I am not very familiar with Morris Tunes (I am born and bred in Cheshire, England), but I do remember the 1970s LP “Morris On” which featured John Kirkpatrick, Ashley Hutchings et al., which popularised Morris Tunes. I thought I might learn some Morris tunes and wondered where to start. Sorry to be a Morris pedant but you can't say Trunkles (pick a tradition), all the Trunkles tunes are different and they are different for a good reason. Lester, please explain this statement to me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Are tunes learnt from printed music or aurally? Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
premo Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I thought I might learn some Morris tunes and wondered where to start. There are now four Morris On albums - The original, Son of... ,Grandson of... and Great grandson of... and they do have a lot of well known standard morris tunes. However there are lots of different traditions that use variations of the same tune for different dances, hence the comment about Trunkles. The tunes are recognisably the same but the stepping and sequence of the associated dances will vary. IMHO it is best to learn the tunes along with the dances. It can be difficult to judge speed of playing, for example, if you are playing 'for yourself'. Have a look at www.themorrisring.org, which has a side finder option and you should be able to track down sides in your area. You will also find links to the other Morris umbrella organisations, Open Morris, Morris Federation, which will list other sides. You will also find that many sides have adopted 'non-morris' tunes to fit dances (the lists above will give you some idea of the range). There's a whole new world awaiting you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lester Bailey Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Sorry to be a Morris pedant but you can't say Trunkles (pick a tradition), all the Trunkles tunes are different and they are different for a good reason. Lester, please explain this statement to me? As an example Trunkles for the village of Bledington is a 4 part tune usually played in Gmaj (mind you the B part modulates into D) whereas Trunkles from the village of Wheatley is a two part tune and the A part is in G maj and the B in E Min. They also differ in that the Bledington tradition is mostly danced with a one, two, three, hop, step and Whaetly is a step, hop, tradition thus requiring a totally different feel to the music. On further checking in The Handbook of Morris Dances (The Black Book, the Morris man's bible) I note that Trunkles from Headington is written with a dotted notation so differs from the previous two. The tunes are different because the style of the dance in each village is different, if you do what is becoming more and more common and play a "one size fits all" tune for different villages dances the whole dance becomes homogenised. A simple example is the lack of anacrusical notes in Bledington tunes, this matches the lack of anacrusical hops in the dances. If you add in the note the dancers add in the hop and, in my opinion, it aint Bledington any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 (edited) >The tunes are different because the style of the dance in each village > is different, if you do what is becoming more and more common and > play a "one size fits all" tune for different villages dances the whole dance becomes Not only that: tunes get modified as they're passed down within a tradition. I learned Trunkles from pervious musicians with my side; later, I learned that it differs somewhat from other versions to accomodate differences in the dance. Other tunes have been changed just because some musician didn't like a particular phrase, changed it, and that's the way it got handed down. We play "I'll Go and Enlist" with a B part that's unlike any I've seen collected. Have no idea where it came from, but our folks have been dancing to it for decades, and don't want it changed. The folk process at work. Edited October 21, 2004 by Jim Besser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 (edited) >It can be difficult to judge speed of playing, for example, if you are playing >'for yourself Learning Morris tunes without learning them to the dances is deadly. You can't get the correct speed, the variations in speed to suit different parts of the dance, the idiosyncrasies in phrasing, without working with the dancers. A musician trying to learn Orange in Bloom without watching the dancers is in for a rude shock when dancers enter the picture. Every side, even within traditions, does it differently; speed and phrasing vary widely. THat said, I frequently hear that you can't be a decent Morris musician without being a dancer. As a non-dancer, I disagree, but nondancers DO have to work much harder to learn the dances and learn how to make the music fit. Edited October 21, 2004 by Jim Besser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Brook Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 The tunes are different because the style of the dance in each village is different Not only that: tunes get modified as they're passed down within a tradition. I learned Trunkles from pervious musicians with my side; later, I learned that it differs somewhat from other versions to accomodate differences in the dance. Other tunes have been changed just because some musician didn't like a particular phrase, changed it, and that's the way it got handed down. The folk process at work. I agree with Lester and Jim Besser, and Jim Lucas - amazing! Tune books like the Mally series in the UK and also the dance manual by Francis Bacon (aka "the black book") are a good starting point to learn morris tunes. However books such as these can never fully convey the nuances of speed, emphasis and rhythm. In the same way as annual accounts are a "true and fair account by an auditor" at a particular point in time these books were also a "true and fair" representation of traditions when they were written. The Morris side I play for has only been around for 16 years, and dances Cotswold Morris broadly in the style of Fieldtown, Adderbury, Bampton and Headington. However over those 16 years the music and dances have subtly evolved and taken their own path which has meant that the tunes are now almost all slightly different to what appears in any written record. So I have had to learn from the established musicians. Just to complicate matters even further a lot of the tunes have also been renamed by the local musicians, so their names do not easily correspond with "standard" morris tune names. If you can, there is no better way to learn than with a morris side alongside established musicians Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 I agree with Lester and Jim Besser, and Jim Lucas - amazing! Don't worry, Peter. You'll soon wake up from your nightmare. The Morris side I play for has only been around for 16 years, and dances Cotswold Morris broadly in the style of Fieldtown, Adderbury, Bampton and Headington. Meanwhile, of course, each of those teams danced/dances only one style. If you can, there is no better way to learn than with a morris side alongside established musicians Agreed. Though of course if you go to another side, you'll have either minor or major adjustments to make. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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