Elise Hayden concertina

[Ken_Coles]

As you noticed, recently the Concertina Connection announced the availability of a 34-key Hayden model, the Elise, that corresponds to the Rochelle anglo and Jackie and Jack English system concertinas. These are entry-level models built in Asia and checked over by the Wakkers before shipping. I couldn't resist, sent in my order, and it arrived this morning.

 

In the interest of disclosure, readers should know that I mostly play anglo. I would describe myself as an intermediate player, I know my way around the instrument and once even worked up a tune in Bb minor on a C/G some years ago. I have tried English system and found it logical as well; if I ever put in some time on it I would probably develop reasonable facility. So many instruments, so little time! As one of the Admins here, I'm officially impartial in reviews, though I should add I have a great deal of respect for all the concertina makers we are blessed to have among us these days, including Wim Walker.

 

After adjusting the handstraps, I tried various notes. Knowing how consistent chord shapes are on Hayden, I couldn't resist trying several. As Wim notes in the accompanying tutor, the button spacing and throw are similar to higher-end concertinas of traditional construction. I started for five years on large Italian anglos, so I'm getting used to the larger size (18.5 cm/7.25 in. across flats) of the Elise pretty quickly. All the notes sound consistently in both directions, and the whole instrument is airtight. The bellows will take some breaking in, but I'm not taxing them by playing fast yet anyway! All in all I would say Wim and Karen Wakker have made a very credible and affordable option available for those of us who wish to explore Hayden duet.

 

As for playing, I can see that I am in for a major brain reset! Just one example; when I want a note a major third higher than the one I'm playing, I unconsciously first try the next higher button in the pattern on the same side on both anglo and English. On this duet, it is two buttons away! I for one will be using scale practice as one of my tools to learn the fingering; I have never progressed on an instrument without it. That's just me; you may learn better another way. I'm sure my learning issues deserve a thread in that subforum.

 

The tutor book is well done, for the novice at notation and playing music. You can skip ahead to the first tunes if you know these already. One question for for Wim. Should "Merrily We Roll Along" on page 12 have the notes in measure 4 be "E" in both hands?

 

If others have tried this instrument, add your impressions here. In the mean time, back to your concertinas (whatever sort), everyone!

 

Ken Coles

[Priscilla]

As you noticed, recently the Concertina Connection announced the availability of a 34-key Hayden model, the Elise, that corresponds to the Rochelle anglo and Jackie and Jack English system concertinas. These are entry-level models built in Asia and checked over by the Wakkers before shipping. I couldn't resist, sent in my order, and it arrived this morning.

 

In the interest of disclosure, readers should know that I mostly play anglo. I would describe myself as an intermediate player, I know my way around the instrument and once even worked up a tune in Bb minor on a C/G some years ago. I have tried English system and found it logical as well; if I ever put in some time on it I would probably develop reasonable facility. So many instruments, so little time! As one of the Admins here, I'm officially impartial in reviews, though I should add I have a great deal of respect for all the concertina makers we are blessed to have among us these days, including Wim Walker.

 

After adjusting the handstraps, I tried various notes. Knowing how consistent chord shapes are on Hayden, I couldn't resist trying several. As Wim notes in the accompanying tutor, the button spacing and throw are similar to higher-end concertinas of traditional construction. I started for five years on large Italian anglos, so I'm getting used to the larger size (18.5 cm/7.25 in. across flats) of the Elise pretty quickly. All the notes sound consistently in both directions, and the whole instrument is airtight. The bellows will take some breaking in, but I'm not taxing them by playing fast yet anyway! All in all I would say Wim and Karen Wakker have made a very credible and affordable option available for those of us who wish to explore Hayden duet.

 

As for playing, I can see that I am in for a major brain reset! Just one example; when I want a note a major third higher than the one I'm playing, I unconsciously first try the next higher button in the pattern on the same side on both anglo and English. On this duet, it is two buttons away! I for one will be using scale practice as one of my tools to learn the fingering; I have never progressed on an instrument without it. That's just me; you may learn better another way. I'm sure my learning issues deserve a thread in that subforum.

 

The tutor book is well done, for the novice at notation and playing music. You can skip ahead to the first tunes if you know these already. One question for for Wim. Should "Merrily We Roll Along" on page 12 have the notes in measure 4 be "E" in both hands?

 

If others have tried this instrument, add your impressions here. In the mean time, back to your concertinas (whatever sort), everyone!

 

Ken Coles

 

Interesting! Sounds wonderful...congratulations, and happy years and years of playing! I admire your courage, to keep learning new things. I'm still such a beginner on concertina (Anglo) that switching to an English or Duet wouldn't be much more puzzling than working with the one I'm on now already is, which I've hardly scratched the surface on as far as understanding as yet. Still very open minded as to the merits of them all!

Wishing you fun and adventure in your ongoing courageous musical journey

Priscilla

[David Barnert]

Thank you for this, Ken.

 

Any chance the box and the book might make it to NESI next September?

 

As for the difficulty you describe concerning where to find the major third, remember that at least it's consistent. On both the English and the Anglo, the method you describe is as likely to find you a minor third as a major one, while on a Hayden, two buttons to the right (if, indeed, there is a button there) will always get you a major third. Players of ECs and Anglos may have trouble with this, but pianists, string players, and woodwind players will find that they already know it without having tried.

[Ken_Coles]

Thank you for this, Ken.

 

Any chance the box and the book might make it to NESI next September?

 

As for the difficulty you describe concerning where to find the major third, remember that at least it's consistent. On both the English and the Anglo, the method you describe is as likely to find you a minor third as a major one, while on a Hayden, two buttons to the right (if, indeed, there is a button there) will always get you a major third. Players of ECs and Anglos may have trouble with this, but pianists, string players, and woodwind players will find that they already know it without having tried.

 

Yes indeed, I pondered how to word my review to account for all those variations and gave up! Of course you are correct. I should think of fiddle, except that is my left hand and this was on my right hand (though of course both work this way on Hayden duet). Yes David, if you haven't encountered one by Sept. (and someone hasn't managed to borrow it from me), it will certainly come to NESI.

 

I am on the third tune, on the second page of tunes, in the tutor. There Wim has you do moving lines in alternate hands while the other hand accompanies, and not exactly symmetrically. It definitely takes focus and makes me think in ways other systems so far have not (a deficiency of me, not the systems!).

 

As for courageous? More like foolish, I'm sure!

 

Ken

[Bob Tedrow]

I have the new Elise Haydens available now at my shop

[ragtimer]

As you noticed, recently the Concertina Connection announced the availability of a 34-key Hayden model, the Elise, that corresponds to the Rochelle anglo and Jackie and Jack English system concertinas. These are entry-level models built in Asia and checked over by the Wakkers before shipping. I couldn't resist, sent in my order, and it arrived this morning.

Aw shucks, I was hoping to be the first to post a review of the Elise. Mine jsut arrived this afternoon, from The Button Box in Sunderland, Mass, USA.

 

I've only had a few mintues to play with it, but my impressions are mostly favorable. I've been playing Hayden Duet (a Stagi and then a Bastari 67-key) for 4.5 years now, so I didn't have to relearn anythign except the closer button spacing.

 

Sounds more like a "real" concertina to me. My Stagi's tone is lush and sweet; the Elise is sassy and perky and rounded.

 

Tonal balance is better than Stagi's -- the RH stands out well against even full LH chords (!), and the higher notes of the RH are powerful, and don't wimp out as you ascend the scale.

 

Action -- you can feel some friction in some of the buttons, and some springs are tighter than others, but it's OK, and noticeably lighter touch than the Stagi. (Remember, Elise costs 1/3 of the Stagi).

 

Dynamic range seems good -- you can't start notesreally soft, but you can sure "honk" loud with a hard squeeze. Of course I should "play in" the reeds and bellows and report again in 6 months.

 

Response speed of lower notes is about like that of the Stagi.

 

Straps have a wide adjustment range. I had to put mine on the tightest notch. THere is room to punch at least two mroe tighter holes int eh straps for really small hands. Good design, Wim.

 

Size and weight-- quite a bit less than Stagi's. Actually, almost the same diameter as the Stagi (just over 7"), though shorter when closed (7" end to end, versus 9" for the Stagi). In fact, I find the smaller size and weight takes some getting used to -- doesn't dig into the lap or thighs for stability as well as the Stagi. But maybe I could even learn to play this box standing up!?!

 

I have to adjust my repertoire and arrangements to the missing notes (D# and G#), but I expected that.

 

Looks -- Rochelle/Jackie basic black. Perfect for custom Toll Painting or decals

You can see the pads under the lint screen in the fretwork, as with the other models -- just like a "real" concertina. For some reason I really like this.

 

An excellent box to introduce the Hayden, indeed! I'm looking forward to using it in band gigs. The sound is really that good.

 

I haven't looked at the Tutor book yet, but it sounds like it's doing the right thing -- introducing separate RH and LH parts right from the start.

--Mike K.

Edited May 29, 2009 by ragtimer

[david_boveri]

as with all disorders, i think it would be appropriate for posters to put a warning at the top of their posts. i am concerned that readers suffering from concertina acquisition disorder (CAD), might be triggered into a relapse of concertina lust.

 

i hope you're happy... now i have to check into the local free reed clinic to start my detox all over again!

 

but in all seriousness, sounds like a blast. let us know how it goes!

[ragtimer]

as with all disorders, i think it would be appropriate for posters to put a warning at the top of their posts. i am concerned that readers suffering from concertina acquisition disorder (CAD), might be triggered into a relapse of concertina lust.

 

i hope you're happy... now i have to check into the local free reed clinic to start my detox all over again!

 

but in all seriousness, sounds like a blast. let us know how it goes!

You could look for a local meeting of Concertinas Unanimous.

When you're feeling depressed and uncertain whether to get another squeezebox, you attend one of their meetings, with other squeezers, and they talk you into getting Yet Another Concertina (YAC).

 

Sure beats trying to kcik the habit --Mike K.

[haimson]

My Elise arrived promptly last Thursday. It sounds excellent, and the action is pretty solid (compared to my Scholer and my friend's Hohner). It looks slightly better than you'd expect for the price - nice lacquer finish, leather straps, and the buttons are straight, but cheesy fretwork, and the bellows look like - no, it can't be - duct tape?? But I got just what I was hoping for - a real Hayden duet for $360 post-paid, and it sounds like a musical instrument.

 

Now trying to wrap my PA-brain around a completely new paradigm for where the notes are, and a completely new way to share between the right and left. The Hayden system is great! I picked that up right away. Nice work, Brian!

 

I knew it didn't have E flat or G sharp, and I understand why - I guess having the high A instead is a reasonable trade-off. But I'm sad that I can't play in G minor.

 

I'll post a sound file when I can play something creditable, but it might be a while.

 

Feedback for Wim:

 

1. I've already had to take it apart - the right-hand B flat had stuck open. That's a very short lever, and the spring's coil was hanging up on the rivet. I bent the spring slightly sideways so it clears the rivet. How the heck do you assemble these? I'm imagining using specially sized drinking straws to guide the buttons into their holes.

 

2. On page 14 in the Tutor, the left hand part is written in bass clef, but the notes and fingerings only make sense if you play it as if it were treble clef. Oops!

 

3. Nice choice of material for the Tutor. I've always thought Playford was ideal material to learn from.

 

Thanks a lot, the Elise is a remarkable piece of work!

David Haimson

[haimson]

Oh, one more thing - I'm having a hard time getting the straps right. I've had to punch one new hole in each of the straps, and I'm thinking of punching a second one. My hands are fairly large. Seems to me the straps don't have enough holes.

 

Question for the duet players among you: any advice on how tight they should be? As I have them (loose enough that I can easily withdraw my hand if it's not supporting the instrument), I can play seated, with one end of the instrument resting on my leg, but I can't play standing up at all. Should the straps be tight enough to hold my hands in place?

 

Thanks,

David Haimson

[Ken_Coles]

Feedback for Wim:

On page 14 in the Tutor, the left hand part is written in bass clef, but the notes and fingerings only make sense if you play it as if it were treble clef. Oops!

 

One question for for Wim. Should "Merrily We Roll Along" on page 12 have the notes in measure 4 be "E" in both hands?

 

I wrote Wim a few days ago and he confirmed both these typos in the tutor, in spite of several proofreads...having never produced a flawless typed document myself, I know what that is like.

 

I have to ergonomically adjust every new instrument (as I documented elsewhere), so extending the strap adjustment is not the first time for me on a concertina.

 

Ken

[ragtimer]

Oh, one more thing - I'm having a hard time getting the straps right. I've had to punch one new hole in each of the straps, and I'm thinking of punching a second one. My hands are fairly large. Seems to me the straps don't have enough holes.

 

Question for the duet players among you: any advice on how tight they should be? As I have them (loose enough that I can easily withdraw my hand if it's not supporting the instrument), I can play seated, with one end of the instrument resting on my leg, but I can't play standing up at all. Should the straps be tight enough to hold my hands in place?

 

Thanks,

David Haimson

All my DUets are set so that I can easily slip hands in and out if the box is resting on a surface.

That's partly because all three have their straps as tight as the factory holes will allow (and we added a hole on the Stagi), so I must have small hands and wrists. I could try adding more holes to the new ELise ...

 

But also, I suspect, if you tighten the straps too much, you won't be able to reach all the notes, especially on the little-finger (pinky) side.

FWIW, I long ago gave up trying to paly standing up, with the instrument unsupported.

 

Let's hear from some more Duet players! --Mike K.

[David Barnert]

All my DUets are set so that I can easily slip hands in and out if the box is resting on a surface.

That's partly because all three have their straps as tight as the factory holes will allow (and we added a hole on the Stagi), so I must have small hands and wrists. I could try adding more holes to the new ELise ...

 

But also, I suspect, if you tighten the straps too much, you won't be able to reach all the notes, especially on the little-finger (pinky) side.

FWIW, I long ago gave up trying to paly standing up, with the instrument unsupported.

 

Let's hear from some more Duet players! --Mike K.

I have no words of wisdom to add on the straps. Tight enough for firm control, loose enough for maneuverability. I am a big guy, and my hands are long and wide but not particularly fat. I play standing up quite frequently, but I have better control sitting down when I can rest one end on a knee. I play a 46 button Wheatstone Hayden (that's it in the photo).

[haimson]

I have no words of wisdom to add on the straps. Tight enough for firm control, loose enough for maneuverability. I am a big guy, and my hands are long and wide but not particularly fat. I play standing up quite frequently, but I have better control sitting down when I can rest one end on a knee. I play a 46 button Wheatstone Hayden (that's it in the photo).

Nice photo! I find my playing is more "alive" when I play standing up, and you appear to be playing in a lively manner indeed. I'm hoping to play my Elise for the Morris.

 

I found that two extra holes was too tight. I'm trying to learn to modulate the straps with my thumbs.

 

David Haimson

[Jim Albea]

All my DUets are set so that I can easily slip hands in and out if the box is resting on a surface.

That's partly because all three have their straps as tight as the factory holes will allow (and we added a hole on the Stagi), so I must have small hands and wrists. I could try adding more holes to the new ELise ...

 

But also, I suspect, if you tighten the straps too much, you won't be able to reach all the notes, especially on the little-finger (pinky) side.

FWIW, I long ago gave up trying to paly standing up, with the instrument unsupported.

 

Let's hear from some more Duet players! --Mike K.

I have no words of wisdom to add on the straps. Tight enough for firm control, loose enough for maneuverability. I am a big guy, and my hands are long and wide but not particularly fat. I play standing up quite frequently, but I have better control sitting down when I can rest one end on a knee. I play a 46 button Wheatstone Hayden (that's it in the photo).

 

I don't think it's the straps. It's the low height of the hand rest. I added a 1/2" dowel to the top of the hand rest. (Taped it on with black duck tape. It doesn't look half bad.) Wow what a difference. It's like I had been riding around on a bicycle with my knees going above my chin. Now the straps are in the mid range of the holes. And I've got much better bellows control.

 

I think the Elise is great (aside from the low hand rest).

[david_boveri]

as with all disorders, i think it would be appropriate for posters to put a warning at the top of their posts. i am concerned that readers suffering from concertina acquisition disorder (CAD), might be triggered into a relapse of concertina lust.

 

i hope you're happy... now i have to check into the local free reed clinic to start my detox all over again!

 

but in all seriousness, sounds like a blast. let us know how it goes!

You could look for a local meeting of Concertinas Unanimous.

When you're feeling depressed and uncertain whether to get another squeezebox, you attend one of their meetings, with other squeezers, and they talk you into getting Yet Another Concertina (YAC).

 

Sure beats trying to kcik the habit --Mike K.

 

i suppose we better NOT start a chapter of concertinas unanimous at noel hill's midwest camp. i've gone 4 times and i own 3 concertinas. the odds are not in my favor... every time (including the upcoming one) but one i show up with a different concertina. this is the first time since my first year that i will not be on the waiting list for a concertina. last time that happened, i went back home and within 3 weeks was on the waitlist for a concertina.

 

if we started chaptter of CA, then i might come back having placed two new orders, having bought an antique, and with chris algar's phone number to track down some "must have" rarity. it's going to be hard enough as it is without an "anti-support" group--i dont have a dipper, a jeffries, a wheatstone, a suttner, or one of those awesome "eire" model wakker concertinas. never mind i dont own any english or duets .

[david_boveri]

Oh, one more thing - I'm having a hard time getting the straps right. I've had to punch one new hole in each of the straps, and I'm thinking of punching a second one. My hands are fairly large. Seems to me the straps don't have enough holes.

 

Question for the duet players among you: any advice on how tight they should be? As I have them (loose enough that I can easily withdraw my hand if it's not supporting the instrument), I can play seated, with one end of the instrument resting on my leg, but I can't play standing up at all. Should the straps be tight enough to hold my hands in place?

 

Thanks,

David Haimson

 

it's a normal thing to have to add some holes. on my last concertina, it had more than enough holes, but none of them were where i wanted them. i had to add a hole BETWEEN two other holes. i wouldnt recommend doing that unless you had a special hole-punching tool (i dont know what it's called, but it's different than an awl).

 

i should say yes they should be tight enough to hold your hands in place. here's a little heuristic i came up with: a good place to start is to tighten them as much as possible, provided you can a.) reach all the notes, and b.)not have your hands go numb. THEN loosen one notch. i'm guessing either the original setting, one notch looser, or one more on top of that should work.

 

keep in mind that there is nothing wrong with adjusting your straps. since i can do multiple adjustments on each side of the hand bar on my new anglo concertina, it took me at least 4 days of adjusting my new anglo to find a strap setting i liked, which was different for each hand. i may have since adjusted it once or twice.

 

I have no words of wisdom to add on the straps. Tight enough for firm control, loose enough for maneuverability. I am a big guy, and my hands are long and wide but not particularly fat. I play standing up quite frequently, but I have better control sitting down when I can rest one end on a knee. I play a 46 button Wheatstone Hayden (that's it in the photo).

Nice photo! I find my playing is more "alive" when I play standing up, and you appear to be playing in a lively manner indeed. I'm hoping to play my Elise for the Morris.

 

I found that two extra holes was too tight. I'm trying to learn to modulate the straps with my thumbs.

 

David Haimson

 

i find that i play the best when i play as if i am standing up even though i am sitting, if that makes sense. i am not really into modulating with your thumbs, cuz my thumbs went numb for several days on more than one occasion when i did that before. but i guess it works for some people, and seems to be the norm.

[Dirge]

Oh, one more thing - I'm having a hard time getting the straps right. I've had to punch one new hole in each of the straps, and I'm thinking of punching a second one. My hands are fairly large. Seems to me the straps don't have enough holes.

 

Question for the duet players among you: any advice on how tight they should be? As I have them (loose enough that I can easily withdraw my hand if it's not supporting the instrument), I can play seated, with one end of the instrument resting on my leg, but I can't play standing up at all. Should the straps be tight enough to hold my hands in place?

 

Thanks,

David Haimson

 

Playing a big Maccan I have the straps loose; there's about 1/2" of air under my hands when they are in the straps; I take the slack up by cupping my hand so that the thumb presses down on the thumbrest, pushing my hand out into the straps. To do any sort of intelligent fingering and to play chord sequences I find myself pivotting my hands in the straps through quite big angles and this 'controlled slack' system allows this. Having the straps loose also allows you to arch your hand more over the keys which is more comfortable and helps with accuracy. I think I have let the straps out steadily as my playing has advanced.

 

There is no question of playing standing for me; I need to have it on my knee to stabilise it while my hands move across the keyboard in the straps. I think Percy Honri et al got round this by plonking their little fingers down on the end to stabilise it; in effect playing with 3 fingers; I can't be bothered to learn that one; I'll stick to all 4 fingers and an occasional thumb, thanks.

 

Don't know how this applies to a small Hayden; it probably depends what you are trying to play, but you'd have an even wider keyboard so I imagine the same problems.