Alan Day Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 Greedy or just a little butterfly? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hjcjones Posted February 25, 2009 Share Posted February 25, 2009 I agree, if you must get another instrument, then you will find the melodeon easier to get to grips with than a duet - not only is the fingering based around the same logic, but you're already used to the push-pull action (which for some people is a huge obstacle). However I would urge you to be patient (not, I sense, one of your virtues ) and concentrate on the anglo for now. You've shown not only real enthusiasm but real progress on that, but you've a long way to go and I think another instrument would be a distraction at this stage. Also, someone recently said on another thread that because the fingerings were so similar he gets confused - this isn't something I've experienced, and there are many musicians who play both so I wouldn't normally worry about it, except that as you're still at the learning stage on anglo then there's perhaps more possibility of confusing yourself. I don't want to discourage you altogether from taking up another instrument - I play guitar, melodeon, recorder, and hammered dulcimer as well as anglo, and I've dabbled with Appalachian dulcimer and mandolin - just to wait until you've got past the learner stage on anglo. Of course, if having tried it for a while you don't think anglo is the right instrument for you, then by all means try something different, including perhaps a different concertina system. But that doesn't seem to be the reason you're looking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Ok I've got a budget of £500-£600 and I want to buy either a melodeon or a duet concertina. I'm leaning towards melodeon at the moment..unless anyone can fight the 'duet's' corner?What's the best duet I could afford within my budget? How easy/hard is it to learn? What music is best played on it? The best duet IMO, is an Anglo played 'properly', i.e. playing both melody and accompaniment together using the notes on both ends at the same time, like Alan Day does, rather than just playing the melody on one end or the other, depending on which key you need to be in. As for melodeons, I have a cupboard full of them, untouched since I bought my first English concertina, 4 years ago. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDT Posted February 26, 2009 Author Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Duet or Melodeon..................it's all down to future life expectancy.Have you asked your doctor? On the other hand...........I started with concertina then bought a melodeon.....almost instantly i could play another instrument. If anything, melodeons are easier than concertina. Also....would you even get a duet for your budget....BUT....I've just bought a Hohner Morgane; a new instrument from Hohner and it is absolutely gorgeous and excellent value for money. Phil ooh....nice. Greedy or just a little butterfly? little bit of both However I would urge you to be patient (not, I sense, one of your virtues ) and concentrate on the anglo for now. You've shown not only real enthusiasm but real progress on that, but you've a long way to go and I think another instrument would be a distraction at this stage. Also, someone recently said on another thread that because the fingerings were so similar he gets confused - this isn't something I've experienced, and there are many musicians who play both so I wouldn't normally worry about it, except that as you're still at the learning stage on anglo then there's perhaps more possibility of confusing yourself. I can be patient about some things and not others The best duet IMO, is an Anglo played 'properly', i.e. playing both melody and accompaniment together using the notes on both ends at the same time, like Alan Day does, rather than just playing the melody on one end or the other, depending on which key you need to be in. As for melodeons, I have a cupboard full of them, untouched since I bought my first English concertina, 4 years ago. Do you want to sell me one of your melodeons? What I'd like would be to be able to 'rent' a box for a while. Is there any UK companies that do that? Edited February 26, 2009 by LDT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 Greedy or just a little butterfly?Al Very astute, Al! I must confess to being a butterfly. When I'm singing with my group, I'm surrounded by instruments - 5-string banjo, mandolin, whistles and Anglo concertina. Plus a bo's'un's pipe and castagnettes for special effects. When I go out to sing at our local open mic, I have to debate with myself over whether the banjo, the autoharp or the Anglo goes with me. Once, I couldn't decide, and took my Bandoneon instead Point is, I'm a singer, and sing pretty well, so nobody can really expect me to be a virtuoso banjoist, mandolinist or concertinist. (I'm pretty good on the autoharp, but there's not much competition there ) And the other point is, it took me decades to get to this butterfly stage (look at my forum profile!) As a child, I played my father's beautiful, old Neapolitan mandolin (a Stridente), and got to the point where I was able to play any melody I could hum in one of the "easy" keys. Parallel to this, I sounded out the mysteries of the mouth organ, which my Dad also had. When I was about 10, a 5-string banjo sought asylum at our house, so as a teenager I learned chord shapes and licks to accompany my singing. Then came the Anglo - the only available concertina at that time - and with my mouth-organ practice, I was soon playing accompaniments on that. In my mid-20s, I got a German guitar-lute and taught myself a bit of guitar accomaniment, too, and the lute (and, after a Spanish holiday, the guitar) supplanted the banjo as my main accompaniment instrument. The Autoharp came much later, but I had handled one as a child - my mother used it for her singing. So there were always phases of several years in which I concentrated on one instrument before "getting into" another one. And instrumental virtuosity was never my goal - accompaniment requires less technique, but more musicality - and as a singer, musicality is your main asset! I still take fits of "working up" a particular instrument until I can play a few instrumental party pieces on it. This means all the other instruments getting a few weeks' rest (except for band-practice nights). And, interestingly, my playing on the "neglected " instruments is often fresher when I take them up again. Each instrument shows you different possibilities that are present in the others, but not so obvious. I have recently taken up the Crane Duet. For me this is "THE" duet, because it builds on the skills I have acquired on the other instruments. Bellows control and finding buttons without looking, from the Anglo. Three-finger scale patterns going from the end of one row to the start of the next, with the accidentals reached by shifting a finger one place to the side, from the mandolin. A few simple, 3-note chord shapes that have different names at different places, from the banjo. And, of course, the feeling for chord changes, from all those chording instruments. Being a butterfly can be very enjoyable - but you have to be happy as a "Jack of all trades and - unfortunately - master of none!" Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon H Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 (edited) Couple of issues to deal with here really. Your present instrument has strap problems, you are a keen player and you don't want to stop playing, that's understandable. All of us get these hankerings after other instruments but they are diversions, there comes a point at which you home in on one and recognise it as the one you want to be most proficient at. But, you do have a new Tedrow anglo on order though, that will form the logical progression for you. Meantime, you can divert yourself if you must or carry on with the Scarlatti. I sense that you don't feel able to repair the strap(s) yourself. If you know any person that can wield a screwdriver, I promise you this can be fixed more easily than you can imagine. You will not be damaging a valuable instrument to do this. Take off the strap or have anyone do it for you. Take along the remains to a clothes shop and buy a soft wide leather belt of similar thickness to the existing strap. Cut new strap(s) using strong scissors/shears using old straps as templates. Punch holes, (any tool shop shoe repairer or horse tack shop will either do this for you or sell you a cheap tool to do it. Then simply reattach, adjust as necessary. I promise you, this job from start to finish should take no more than half an hour and cost less than a tenner. The person doing it does not have to know the first thing about concertinas to do it for you. You could even probably get the whole job done by a shoe repairer while you wait !!. Simon Edited February 26, 2009 by Simon H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 I promise you, this job from start to finish should take no more than half an hour and cost less than a tenner. The person doing it does not have to know the first thing about concertinas to do it for you. You could even probably get the whole job done by a shoe repairer while you wait !!. Simon Wise words Simon. It's time to flutter your eyelashes at the local cobbler LDT. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Drinkwater Posted February 26, 2009 Share Posted February 26, 2009 What I'd like would be to be able to 'rent' a box for a while. Is there any UK companies that do that? The East Anglian Traditional Music Trust, based in Stowmarket, operate a loan/rental scheme for beginner melodeon players and possibly concertina players as well, but you may have live nearby to be eligible. On saturday, 28th March, they are holding a Melodeons and more day. You may already be planning to go to it. You can find out then. Also, concertina repairer and restorer Mike Acott may well be there and he can advise you about a repair. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDT Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 Being a butterfly can be very enjoyable - but you have to be happy as a "Jack of all trades and - unfortunately - master of none!" I would love to be a jack of all trades....tend to end up a jack of a handful of trades master of a few though Maybe its because I like to a have a 'complete' collection. One of each that makes me collect skills in my butterfly way. Couple of issues to deal with here really. Your present instrument has strap problems, you are a keen player and you don't want to stop playing, that's understandable. All of us get these hankerings after other instruments but they are diversions, there comes a point at which you home in on one and recognise it as the one you want to be most proficient at. But, you do have a new Tedrow anglo on order though, that will form the logical progression for you. Meantime, you can divert yourself if you must or carry on with the Scarlatti. I sense that you don't feel able to repair the strap(s) yourself. If you know any person that can wield a screwdriver, I promise you this can be fixed more easily than you can imagine. You will not be damaging a valuable instrument to do this. Take off the strap or have anyone do it for you. Take along the remains to a clothes shop and buy a soft wide leather belt of similar thickness to the existing strap. Cut new strap(s) using strong scissors/shears using old straps as templates. Punch holes, (any tool shop shoe repairer or horse tack shop will either do this for you or sell you a cheap tool to do it. Then simply reattach, adjust as necessary. I promise you, this job from start to finish should take no more than half an hour and cost less than a tenner. The person doing it does not have to know the first thing about concertinas to do it for you. You could even probably get the whole job done by a shoe repairer while you wait !!. I've found someone to make the repairs a nice lady in my congregation volunteered her husband who's a carpenter. Just not sure what 'parts' I need to order there seems a lot of choice. Wise words Simon. It's time to flutter your eyelashes at the local cobbler LDT. Local cobbler? What's one of them? The East Anglian Traditional Music Trust, based in Stowmarket, operate a loan/rental scheme for beginner melodeon players and possibly concertina players as well, but you may have live nearby to be eligible. I don't think Essex is local enough On saturday, 28th March, they are holding a Melodeons and more day. You may already be planning to go to it. You can find out then. Also, concertina repairer and restorer Mike Acott may well be there and he can advise you about a repair. I think I'm going to be spending lunchtime looking round the stalls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miikae Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Historically, A Cobbler repairs shoes boots etc, Whilst a Cordwainer made shoes etc, hope this helps Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Historically, A Cobbler repairs shoes boots etc, Whilst a Cordwainer made shoes etc, hope this helps Mike I thought the same as you Mike at first but I think LDT's point was that there aren't any local ones anymore. Although my dictionary defines a cordwainer as a shoemaker, according to ones presently training in Hertfordshire at a college I visited, they made horse trappings originally and still do. It derives from Cordovan leather, which is particularly fine. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDT Posted February 27, 2009 Author Share Posted February 27, 2009 I thought the same as you Mike at first but I think LDT's point was that there aren't any local ones anymore. Theres a place that does dry cleaning, key cutting and 'shoe repair' somewhere but I think if I went in and asked they'd just laugh at me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 (edited) I thought the same as you Mike at first but I think LDT's point was that there aren't any local ones anymore. Theres a place that does dry cleaning, key cutting and 'shoe repair' somewhere but I think if I went in and asked they'd just laugh at me. I can't believe such cads exist in Essex. One sometimes misses those notorious twins of yesteryear who never would have countenanced anyone behaving poorly towards ladies. [Half of this posting is a joke. I'll leave it up to you to work out which half.] Ian Edited February 27, 2009 by Hereward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Rogers Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 Although my dictionary defines a cordwainer as a shoemaker, according to ones presently training in Hertfordshire at a college I visited, they made horse trappings originally and still do. It derives from Cordovan leather, which is particularly fine. One of my great-great-grandfathers was a cordwainer, and was very proud of the fact that he only made delicate *ladies'* shoes from Cordovan leather. He definitely thought himself a cut above his brothers, who were common-or-garden bootmakers. I'm sure if he'd been asked to make horse trappings, he'd have said "neigh". Memo for fans of Rambling Syd Rumpo - *not* to be confused with Cord-Wangler, which is something *quite* different... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hereward Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 One of my great-great-grandfathers was a cordwainer, and was very proud of the fact that he only made delicate *ladies'* shoes from Cordovan leather. He definitely thought himself a cut above his brothers, who were common-or-garden bootmakers. I'm sure if he'd been asked to make horse trappings, he'd have said "neigh". Memo for fans of Rambling Syd Rumpo - *not* to be confused with Cord-Wangler, which is something *quite* different... I checked and cordwainers were makers of horse trappings in leather. The metal side was made by loriners. However, there is much more money in making snazzy shoes and that's where most of them from the college I visited make their money when they graduate. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiddlehead Fern Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 LDT, I'd say get a better Anglo. The reason being if you're on a budget you can get a better instrument than that you've been playing quicker if you don't go off buying something else. If you can get a better instrument RIGHT NOW even, then do it. Even if you're not yet at a level that demands a better quality concertina yet, you will get there and having a nice instrument that you don't have to fight with could even help you get there faster. I'm not as concerned about the fact that you might confuse yourself trying to learn several different instruments at once as the fact that if you do that and then want to get a better melodeon or duet AND a better Anglo you're going to distract yourself with yet another instrument, creating a vicious cycle of the acquisition of new instruments with no upgrading of the ones you're already playing and truly NEED to get better quality instruments to match your level of accomplishment. Mind you, this is coming from someone to whom "retail therapy" means relaxing and maybe scheduling a appointment with the mental health professionals after I am dragged against my will into the mall or other such establishment. In other words, I hate shopping (except for books and instruments, of course, so I do to some extent empathize with yours situation...) Sarcasm aside, when I got a better violin than the one I'd been playing I made progress that I was unable to do before because I was being limited by my instrument. I'm still saving up for the new concertina, but I'll hazard a guess that it's going to a similar experience. Maybe after you've gotten your better concertina that you will be able to play for a long time start looking onto getting a second, third, fourth (or higher) instrument and repeating the precess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Van Donsel Posted February 28, 2009 Share Posted February 28, 2009 I also vote for not getting distracted with another instrument at this point. Your new box will come in due time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDT Posted March 2, 2009 Author Share Posted March 2, 2009 Mind you, this is coming from someone to whom "retail therapy" means relaxing and maybe scheduling a appointment with the mental health professionals after I am dragged against my will into the mall or other such establishment. In other words, I hate shopping (except for books and instruments, of course, so I do to some extent empathize with yours situation...) I'm not a fan of 'shopping malls' but I love little independant shops and my one weakness (as Dorcas Lane might say) is shopping online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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