Ishtar Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Music is almost universal, but there are still differences to be dealt with. Here are two minor hurdles that I need to get over. 1. I know my notes as ABCDEFG. French people know them as Doh Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Doh, with Doh being middle C. So if someone says "it's in the key of Sol", I have to use my fingers to translate. Improving this is a must now that I'm in a serious sea shanty situation. 2. Keeping a straight face when a French speaker talks about fifths. It's spelt "quints" and pronounced "keunt". So far, I can't bring myself to say it! I know you're a well-travelled, international bunch on here. What musical surprises have you had on your travels? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 (edited) Music is almost universal, but there are still differences to be dealt with. Here are two minor hurdles that I need to get over. 1. I know my notes as ABCDEFG. French people know them as Doh Re Mi Fa Sol La Si Doh, with Doh being middle C. So if someone says "it's in the key of Sol", I have to use my fingers to translate. Improving this is a must now that I'm in a serious sea shanty situation. 2. Keeping a straight face when a French speaker talks about fifths. It's spelt "quints" and pronounced "keunt". So far, I can't bring myself to say it! I know you're a well-travelled, international bunch on here. What musical surprises have you had on your travels? In Germany and and Nordic region the following notes cause confusion H (this is B on the 'tina) B (this is Bb) Es (this is Eb) So the C scale is CDEFGAHC When I first started playing my Norwegian chord zither, the names of the chords on the instrument caused me no end of confusion. Steve Edited October 19, 2008 by SteveS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtar Posted October 19, 2008 Author Share Posted October 19, 2008 When I first started playing my Norwegian chord zither, the names of the chords on the instrument caused me no end of confusion. Steve I can imagine! In French, strings are called cordes, and chords are called accordes. Were you all aware of the connection between concertinas and clowns? I wasn't! But a lot of French people have assumed that my English concertina is a bandonéon, apparently a traditional clown's instrument. Certainly plenty evidence on the internet to support that, but it was new to me. http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/2787713 Explains why they don't take it seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Viehoff Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Music is almost universal, but there are still differences to be dealt with. Here are two minor hurdles that I need to get over.... What musical surprises have you had on your travels? In gamelan music of SE Asia (mainly Indonesia) they use several entirely different scales from us, not even having the same intervals (not even tones and semitones, though there is a variety that uses something similar to a western minor scale). They also deliberately tune different instruments in the same ensemble slightly apart from each other, a bid like "wet" tuning on some free-reed instruments with several reeds per note. It all sounds very different, and on first acquaintance sounds very out of tune to our ears. The note names used in one type of tuning are rather amusing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9log Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted October 19, 2008 Share Posted October 19, 2008 Aren't CDE... is denominating order, and DO, REH, Mi... shows the pitch? So singers use pitch names and musicians letters? Or something of the sort? So it used together in any Western culture. As for Eastern, "Two worlds, two fates". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtar Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 Aren't CDE... is denominating order, and DO, REH, Mi... shows the pitch? So singers use pitch names and musicians letters? Or something of the sort?So it used together in any Western culture. Not in France, m3838! They use Doh-Ré-Mi. I've been in a choir, had guitar lessons, been in an Irish session....... it's always doh-ré-mi, with Doh=C. C'est comme ça! Using letters of the alphabet is ze Anglo-Saxon way. Most musicians will know their ABC, especially if they're interested in any music from outside France, but for your ordinary mec-dans-la-rue, it's strictly doh-ré-mi. Honest Injun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m3838 Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Aren't CDE... is denominating order, and DO, REH, Mi... shows the pitch? So singers use pitch names and musicians letters? Or something of the sort?So it used together in any Western culture. Not in France, m3838! They use Doh-Ré-Mi. I've been in a choir, had guitar lessons, been in an Irish session....... it's always doh-ré-mi, with Doh=C. C'est comme ça! Using letters of the alphabet is ze Anglo-Saxon way. Most musicians will know their ABC, especially if they're interested in any music from outside France, but for your ordinary mec-dans-la-rue, it's strictly doh-ré-mi. Honest Injun. I don't think it's true though. Russian musical culture is inherited from French, and most teaching is too, done in Italian pitch names, however, chords are often depicted in Latin letters. Any trained musician would rather use pitch names, but is not a stranger to letters either. In any case it is not an issue, even German B and H names are not impossible to remember. When we taught our first daughter piano, I asked her first teacher to use letters. Second teacher rejected it out of hand and we got used to it. Now, when we teach our second daughter, I asked specifically to use Russian language and pitch names. Simply to install something different in her head, may be it'll be good for her. Although I like "sharp" and "flat" better than "diez" and "bemol". You can say "flatter", but can't say "bemollier". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Marino Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 France, Italy, Spain, parts of Switzerland, and in some music in Austria use the Do Re Mi.... So life gets interesting for those of us that speak and play more than one form of music in more than one cultural environment. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 My first music lessons started with Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do as the major scale, with Mi-Fa and Ti-Do as the semitones. Followed by the minor scale: La-Ti-Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So. This was trained by singing. Later on, using instruments, this was translated to CDEFGABC, written on the stave. This made the different keys understandable: if you choose you G as Do, you need to sharpen F to make a proper Ti; if you choose F as Do, you need to flatten B, to make a proper Fa. I don't know if this is typical Dutch, or just a developed method of teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LDT Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I'm English and I think music is a foreign language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtar Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 I don't think it's true though. So we know a different subset of French people. Not a problem! My current subset is miserable under torrential rain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Timson Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) In Germany and and Nordic region the following notes cause confusion H (this is B on the 'tina) B (this is Bb) Es (this is Eb) I have a pitch pipe marked this way. Obligatory concertina link: the pitch pipe is of a type invented by Charles Wheatstone, and involves a single free reed held between rollers. The major musical difference I have noted betweeen the UK and the US is the total absence of booze in the US during gigs and sessions. This has a profound effect on the music ... Chris Edited October 20, 2008 by Chris Timson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishtar Posted October 20, 2008 Author Share Posted October 20, 2008 The note names used in one type of tuning are rather amusing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9log Nice one, Ivan. That is well forrin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 The major musical difference I have noted betweeen the UK and the US is the total absence of booze in the US during gigs and sessions. This has a profound effect on the music ... Chris I know you've mentioned that before. I guess I don't play the posh clubs and sessions. At Stone's as soon as I walk in the door, a pint of my choice (Speckled Hen or Hobgoblin) is pulled and in front of me as my rather ample arse touches the bench. At Blanchards they make sure I'm well oiled with Newcastle Ale (their fee is so low perhaps it is out of pity). If ever this economy recovers and my haunts survive, you and Ann need to give us another chance to right an obviuos wrong! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglo-Irishman Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 I know you're a well-travelled, international bunch on here. What musical surprises have you had on your travels? Ishtar, I was just reading the "Emphasis on the EC" thread, where someone confessed to not knowing what a crotchet is I've now lived longer in Germany than in my native Northern Ireland, and can converse about anything that interests me equally well in both languages. That includes music and organology. The slightly irritating difference between German and English note names (H=B, B=Bb) has been mentioned, but what I had to learn was the durations: crotchet = Viertelnote, quaver = Achtelnote, etc. Having learnt this, I was suddenly able to undersand American musicians, because "Viertelnote" translates literally as "quarter note" and "Achtelnote" as "eighth note". Coming from an English-speaking background, I'd have thought the crotchet would be a "whole note", because we usually count time in crotchets, of which brieves and semibrieves are multiples, and quavers and semiquavers are fractions By the way, the German note names H and B made it possible for J.S. Bach to spell his name in musical notation. B-A-C-H would be B flat-A-C-B in English - like most neat ideas, it loses something in translation Cheers, John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Evans Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 Oh good lord in heaven! This is all too much for me. I'll just go back to learning by ear. Mark my word, I'll be having nighmares over this crotchet business I guess I've had me head shoved up where the sun don't shine fer so long that I can't stand the light . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sebastian Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 (edited) but what I had to learn was the durations: crotchet = Viertelnote, quaver = Achtelnote, etc. But it's logical: A "whole note" fills a "whole measure", regardless of the measure being C = 4/4 or O = 3/4. Ah, what is the meaning of brieve and semibrieve? In German a "Brevis" is two "whole notes" (which ist historically correct, coming from mensural notation), whereas, of course, in "a la breve" you count "half notes". Sebastian Edited October 20, 2008 by Sebastian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael sam wild Posted October 20, 2008 Share Posted October 20, 2008 When we were kids we sang Doh Re Mi Fah So Lah Tee Doh, then downwards " I lost my knickers in the snow' the Up -"If you find them let me know' Doh Tee Lah So Fah Mi Re Doh" I've taught my 5 sons and my grandchildren that way and it goes in immediately! They can do it from any starting note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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