Big Size Crane Duets

[Marien]

I have read that there are MacCanns with 80 buttons or more. I was wondering how many buttons the biggest Crane duet would have. The biggest I have seen has 55 buttons. Is there anyone who has one with more buttons?

Thanks,

Marien

[Greg Jowaisas]

I remember a Crabb crane on ebay about two years ago. If memory serves it had engraved ends and about 72 buttons. I believe one of cnet's members can elaborate.

 

Greg

[SteveP]

Crabb produced them up to 80 buttons - the layout can be found at www.craneconcertina.com

[Marien]

I found this 72 button Crane demo on youtube:

 

[Marien]

Steve,

Thanks for the link to the key layouts of the 80 buttons. Compared to a 55 button, such a low extra row on the right hand side looks very useful when melodies in C go down to G. I am wondering if all those extra high buttons on the right hand side ever are used (the 2 top rows).

Marien

[SteveP]

Anyone out there have one?

[Mark Davies]

I have a 71 key with engraved ends which was refurbished by Geoff Crabb.It was made in 1924.It is very similar to the instrument in the attached photograph.

[mike averill]

I have a 70 key (plus air) with engraved ends, number 8937, which Geoff tells me was made in 1918.

 

I posted the pictures before

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&id=2665

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php...ost&id=2666

[Hooves]

Steve,

Thanks for the link to the key layouts of the 80 buttons. Compared to a 55 button, such a low extra row on the right hand side looks very useful when melodies in C go down to G. I am wondering if all those extra high buttons on the right hand side ever are used (the 2 top rows).

Marien

 

 

I have a 48K crane, on my box the lowest octave is very slow to sound, so slow I ahve thought it migth be btetr to just end a few notes before the lowest C, reaching my upper notes even on the 48K is a bit of a stretch and hard to hit them precisely in the upper most register (but thats just me on my box, other boxes and players may find those notes easier to hit and sound).

 

It looks like it would be rough hitting that range of notes, do any of the players of these 70-80 key Cranes have some insight and how or even if they use this extended range?

[m3838]

Steve,

Thanks for the link to the key layouts of the 80 buttons. Compared to a 55 button, such a low extra row on the right hand side looks very useful when melodies in C go down to G. I am wondering if all those extra high buttons on the right hand side ever are used (the 2 top rows).

Marien

 

 

I have a 48K crane, on my box the lowest octave is very slow to sound, so slow I ahve thought it migth be btetr to just end a few notes before the lowest C, reaching my upper notes even on the 48K is a bit of a stretch and hard to hit them precisely in the upper most register (but thats just me on my box, other boxes and players may find those notes easier to hit and sound).

 

It looks like it would be rough hitting that range of notes, do any of the players of these 70-80 key Cranes have some insight and how or even if they use this extended range?

 

Hmm, you sounded a word of warning to me.

But I wonder, why not use EC style thumb strap for the Duets? Than all the notes will be easily reachable. And the wrist strap may be used as an additional fixture, through which the whole hand is going.

On slow reeds: have you tried to re-set the gaps? It worked on my Jack, I'm sure your Crane is better instrument.

I had once smallish inexpencive Crane and the result was so useless, I made wide conclusions:

Any Duet must be large to be used as Duet, not just a melody instrument

Any Duet must have at least 6-7 folds bellows for left side low reeds to be used.

Any Duet must be of higher caliber, relative to Anglo or English, to be useful.

But it looks like large Duets' uppermost buttons may not be easily reachable, so indeed, what' s the solution - to loosen the wrist strap and let the whole hand under it?

[frogspawn]

I can't hit all the RH top buttons on my 55-button Crane, but it's not often I'd want to. My existing strap tightness gives me some leeway, but if I push my hands through far enough to hit the upper rows, it's then clumsy to hit the bottom rows!

 

I suppose I might loosen the straps once I am more confident about my accuracy. I hold the Crane in the air (already discussed in another thread) but I'm not sure it would be a good idea healthwise to support the weight on my thumbs.

 

The more buttons, the more problematical this reach problem must become, while holding it in the air does deprive you of any fixed point. However, I understand that Music Hall performers played really big Cranes while standing so it should all become controllable with enough practice.

 

Richard

[Marien]

...why not use EC style thumb strap for the Duets?

 

It may be a personal thing but I like the anglo type straps on my 55 button crane. I have an english system concertina and sometimes play it, but in some way it feels like my hands are caged, keeping thumb and pinky in a straitjacket. On the Crane I can move he hands more freely and I am sometimes using the pinky for the 5th column when my fingers would get strangled if I would not do that (mostly on the left hand). Having four fingers free on one hand feels like an advantage to me. I see the point that you could walk to higher regions more easily with english straps, but I am doubting if that would work for me (without using a neck strap). I am wondering if I would get along on a 72 button crane and use all the buttons, but I think the anglo type straps I have are just the ones I need on my 55 buttons Crane.

 

Marien

[malcolm clapp]

Maybe higher handrests would be the answer for longer reach.

 

I notice that most Cranes have a handrest higher than standard anglo height.

 

Lachenal type wooden handrests are easy to make, though replicating any stampings could be difficult.

So maybe, say, a quarter inch piece of timber under the existing handrest would do the trick, and easily reversible if not to your liking.

 

Maybe even more than a quarter of an inch; my Crane is only a 48 key, so I don't have the problem, so I have never tried a higher handrest. But I reckon it would be worth a try....

 

MC

[m3838]

Maybe even more than a quarter of an inch; my Crane is only a 48 key, so I don't have the problem, so I have never tried a higher handrest. But I reckon it would be worth a try....

You can try foam tubing, discussied elsewhere.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Picture of typical Crabb 80 Key circa 1914. Large Duets usually include the air button in the key count. This has 43 on the right and 37 on the left. As all these instruments were 'Specials', please note that the button arrangement at high and low ends of the keyboards may differ slightly from one instrument to another. Also the range of each side may not be constant.

 

 

 

 

These instruments were generally constructed with the handrests closer to the keys and made much higher to enable easier reach of the top notes. Because of these higher handrests, they were pierced so as not to impede sound projection.

 

Slow response of the lower reeds on 48 key Lachenal Cranes may be due to initial poor reed construction, the action (buttons) being lowered at some time, affecting airflow or poor retuning.

 

English style thumb straps with no finger rests were used on earlier "Double" concertinas.

 

 

Geoff Crabb.

Edited November 28, 2007 by Geoffrey Crabb

[JimLucas]

Maybe higher handrests would be the answer for longer reach.

These instruments were generally constructed with the handrests closer to the keys and made much higher to enable easier reach of the top notes. Because of these higher handrests, they were pierced so as not to impede sound projection.

Geoff, how much higher is "much" higher? Having the hand rest closer to the buttons helps the reach, assuming that one can still reach the closer buttons. But Pythagoras tells us that higher can't possibly extend the reach; in fact, it will reduce it. However, higher might make it easier to reach over the nearer buttons without accidentally pressing them, too.

 

On my Jeffries Crane, the top of the bar is 2 cm above the buttons, and the tip of my middle finger extends 12.5 cm from the front of the bar. If the bar were 1 cm higher (thus 3 cm above the buttons), that would reduce my forward reach by 2 mm. That's not much, only about half a button diameter, so I suppose that if a higher bar had enhancing effects (perhaps encouraging the hand to rotate forward?), they might more than compensate for the lost length. But that's just speculation on my part, an attempt to find a justification for the clam that raising the bar really does make it easier to reach the top notes.

[malcolm clapp]

Sorry, Jim, but I don't think Pythagoras is too relevant when considering 3 movable joints on each finger, not to mention some movement from the wrist.

More of a squashed and constantly changing hexagon shape than a triangle....

 

MC

Edited November 28, 2007 by malcolm clapp

[Hooves]

...why not use EC style thumb strap for the Duets?

 

It may be a personal thing but I like the anglo type straps on my 55 button crane. I have an english system concertina and sometimes play it, but in some way it feels like my hands are caged, keeping thumb and pinky in a straitjacket.

 

Marien

 

 

I think Marien nailed it as to why its not more prevalent to have the EC style thumb/pinky rests: you need to have that pinky free - my limited expierence with the duet has shown me how important the pinky is, I need it to hit the furthest rows and still hit notes on the other rows. For example, if you were hitting just the accidentals (black keys) on a crane, you need to hit both extremes of the instrument which would be difficult with just the inner 3 fingers.

 

Thanks Geoff for the info on the low notes, it may very well be the reed has shifted in transport, my box had to come along ways to get to me, and had to go through the US border/customs.

 

all my other notes are fine, just once I get below middle c, there is a gradual slow down till the lowest C, although they all sound in tune (to me at least...).