Edeophone Bottom F

[david robertson]

Two Edeophones have recently passed through my hands, a 56 and a 60 button, both extended trebles.

In both cases, on the right hand, at the bottom of the upper row of accidentals where you would normally expect to find the bottom G#, there has been an F. Coincidence? Purchaser's preference? Or is there an arcane musical reason for it? (I enquire as an Anglo player rather than a musician!)

Any ideas and contributions to my limited understanding would be gratefully received.

David Robertson

[spindizzy]

Two Edeophones have recently passed through my hands, a 56 and a 60 button, both extended trebles.

In both cases, on the right hand, at the bottom of the upper row of accidentals where you would normally expect to find the bottom G#, there has been an F. Coincidence? Purchaser's preference? Or is there an arcane musical reason for it? (I enquire as an Anglo player rather than a musician!)

Any ideas and contributions to my limited understanding would be gratefully received.

David Robertson

 

This is also the case with my standard midrange Lach. 48 button treble. I assume that extra low note was valued in some situations! Did these concertinas have the G# or the F on the paper label with the note names?

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

Two Edeophones ....

In both cases, on the right hand, at the bottom of the upper row of accidentals where you would normally expect to find the bottom G#, there has been an F. Coincidence? Purchaser's preference? Or is there an arcane musical reason for it?

Personal preference, I would say. This is not an uncommon modification for 48-button English concertinas, though it's still far less common than having a G# in that position, and no low F. I think that this variant -- other variations in the English layout are extremely rare -- is popular with folks who do a lot of playing in flat keys, rather than just Irish and English tunes in G and D. I know some singers who like to sing in the keys of F and Bb are fond of having that note.

 

I suspect that most of the concertinas with this modification to the layout were built that way originally. There are enough of them that it seems unlikely that the desire for the difference only came after the fact. I do know, though, of at least one instrument where that note was converted, because the owner -- a singer -- had had that low F on a previous instrument and had become dependent on it.

 

I have both a New Model and an Edeophone which have that low F, and though I have no intention of modifying any of my other Englishes to give me the low F, neither do I feel any compulsion to convert those two to the "proper" layout. Nevertheless, I have made a change to those two: I use the G# much more than the Ab, so I've moved that low F to the Ab position and shifted the Ab reeds to the G# position. The more-used G# is now in the same place on all my treble Englishes, and the less-used Ab is the note that I have to replace with its enharmonic equivalent on the other side if I want that note on that New Model or Edeophone. And the F, though still in the "wrong" position (i.e., different from where it's found on a tenor-treble), is at least on the "correct" side of the instrument. If I want to play a low F-triad chord, all the notes are on the same side of the instrument, just as in any other octave.

[david robertson]

Thanks to you both for the information. There aren't any paper labels in an Edeophone, but both of the low F reeds are in shoes stamped G#, so I'm guessing it was a later modification. Reassuring, though, to learn that it's quite a common one. I must confess that I tuned the 56-button reeds up to G# before selling it - there was plenty of meat on them - but maybe I'll leave the current one tuned as found, or give the buyer the choice.

Thanks again for the benefit of your knowledge.

[JimLucas]

Thanks to you both for the information. There aren't any paper labels in an Edeophone, but both of the low F reeds are in shoes stamped G#, so I'm guessing it was a later modification.

Not necessarily. The reed for that F in a tenor-treble might actually be the same size as the G#, and if not, the difference would be slight. If you examine the reed frames, you'll find that there are only a few standard sizes, not a separate size for each pitch.

 

Since Lachenal was known for using mass-production techniques, it would make sense that the reeds would be made -- and stamped -- in standard sets, including the G#. Both the frames and the slots in the reed pan would be those normally used for the G#, but if an F were requested for a particular instrument, the person doing the tuning would simply remove a bit less metal from the reed, tuning it up to F, but no further.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi all,

Very brief response I am afraid.

 

Quite often, those who started on the 48 Treble found that a low F would be useful as they progressed in their playing. The easiest and cheapest way of providing that on an instrument of equal temp tuning was to tune the G# down to F. The existence of the Ab on the other side providing the alternative.

This change was a regular request in the Crabb workshop.

 

Due to the full use of the pan space by the 24 radial chambers, it was very difficult to include another chamber for the F using the jigs used by Lachenal or Wheatstone and still maintain the use of long scale reeds and the standard size carcass. This is evidenced by the omission of the top Ab on the right, this note being available on the left as G#.

Some special hand built models by both Wheatstone and Lachenal would include an extra chamber on each pan for the extra low F reeds, the button being positioned toward the front of a thumb strap for operation by the first finger. This was positioned on the left or right to customer requirement. A corresponding button on the opposite side could be fitted and control a wind valve if required using the spare chamber space on that side.

Crabb 48 Trebles made to replace an existing instruments of experienced players were generally provided with the extra F reeds and button.

 

Due to the non-use of the top rows by many, the ‘43 Key English’ {http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5906} I recently made, has the top four notes (G,G#,B,Bb) on left and the top three notes (F#,A,C) on the right not provided. The space gained on the reed pan allows the left to be extended down to F including the F#. The range of the instrument is three octaves including all accidentals. A wind valve is included for those who have difficulty finishing a piece with the bellows closed.

 

Sorry, this was supposed to be brief but as usual I got carried away.

 

Geoff

Edited August 6, 2007 by Geoffrey Crabb

[d.elliott]

Hi all,

Very brief response I am afraid.

 

Quite often, those who started on the 48 Treble found that a low F would be useful as they progressed in their playing. The easiest and cheapest way of providing that on an instrument of equal temp tuning was to tune the G# down to F. The existence of the Ab on the other side providing the alternative.

This change was a regular request in the Crabb workshop.

 

Due to the full use of the pan space by the 24 radial chambers, it was very difficult to include another chamber for the F using the jigs used by Lachenal or Wheatstone and still maintain the use of long scale reeds and the standard size carcass. This is evidenced by the omission of the top Ab on the right, this note being available on the left as G#.

Some special hand built models by both Wheatstone and Lachenal would include an extra chamber on each pan for the extra low F reeds, the button being positioned toward the front of a thumb strap for operation by the first finger. This was positioned on the left or right to customer requirement. A corresponding button on the opposite side could be fitted and control a wind valve if required using the spare chamber space on that side.

Crabb 48 Trebles made to replace an existing instruments of experienced players were generally provided with the extra F reeds and button.

 

Due to the non-use of the top rows by many, the ‘43 Key English’ {http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5906} I recently made, has the top four notes (G,G#,B,Bb) on left and the top three notes (F#,A,C) on the right not provided. The space gained on the reed pan allows the left to be extended down to F including the F#. The range of the instrument is three octaves including all accidentals. A wind valve is included for those who have difficulty finishing a piece with the bellows closed.

 

Sorry, this was supposed to be brief but as usual I got carried away.

 

Geoff

 

In support of Geoff,

 

Of my own instruments most now have the F nat instread of G#, this simply provides a good root note for playing in the key of F Major, and a useful note for playing in C and even Bb. My Aeola treble and my baritone were both made like it, as was one other treble, and a have converted one other as well.

 

I have provided conversions to others a couple of times, and on istruments for service & repair ithat low F nat is far from uncommon. Usually it is achieved by weighting the reed tips, rather than weakening the reed by filing down the centre area.

 

Dave E

[Rikki]

I know this is an old thread but as somebody who has been on the lookout for a tenor or tenor treble, I've found the comments made to be really interesting.

 

I've recently acquired an old set of 96 key English Concertina lachenal steel reeds in brass chambers. They came from a badly smashed up Lachenal English Treble.

 

I have a Wheatstone model 22, and rather than risk wrecking my reeds by filing them or weighting them with solder, I tuned a couple of the lachenal reeds down, reduced the chamber widths slightly, and swapped them for my low Ab reeds in my model 22. It worked a treat and allows me to now play the low 'F' chord which is really useful when accompanying songs in C or F.

 

I have noted Geoffrey Crabb's reference to the use of the top row as a means of extended the range down. I certainly never use the top rows (or the row below even), and it occurs to me that this could be an (albeit possibly a rather awkward) alternative method of creating a nice tenor concertina for a sum considerably less than the £2,500 plus you would otherwise need to pay.

 

Needless to say, I would not look to convert my model 22 lightly, and would probably look to buy a cheaper basic model as an experiment, and establish whether playabilty could be a major hurdle. I do, of course, appreciate that there will be a degree of routing and the removal of some small blocks of wood (sorry..technical term not known!), and there may be a chamber width issue.

 

I would welcome anyone's thoughts on this, as I do have a habit of over simplifying things at times.

Edited March 1, 2015 by Rikki