Button Sizes And Spacings

[raymy]

hi everyone

i've been using an old bastari 30b G/D anglo and always hoped to upgrade to a much better instrument when my playing merited it. I've tried out 2 expensive anglos recently but my fingers are so used to the size of buttons and the spacings on the beat-up Bastari, that i struggled to adapt to the newer instruments.I really dont want to go backwards to go forwards, if you know what i mean. The newer instruments looked and sounded 10 times better than the Bastari, but hindered my playing. The question for you experts is this: how easy or difficult would it be to make my cheapo Bastari sound better with a makeover? Is there much that can be done with such a cheaply-made (but familiar) instrument? The Bastari needs an overhaul anyway: bellows are tearing and one button plays 2 notes simultaneously.Anyone selling a 30b G/D Bastari anglo? And any players out there live in the west of Scotland?

[Samantha]

How long did you have your hands on the newer instruments? I'd say that while it may take a little while to adapt to differently sized and spaced buttons it is an adjustment worth making in order to be able to play on a better instrument.

Samantha

[Henk van Aalten]

When I changed from my previous 20 button Hohner G/C to my new Marcus 30 button G/C, I experienced the same problem. It took several weeks to manage and the reward in better sound-quality and playing speed was more than enough to compensate for the short period to get used to the much smaller sized buttons.

 

So my advice is not to worry about button-size, but enjoy the better sound!

 

Henk

[Dave Prebble]

Hi ???

 

Definately sounds to me that it is time for you to move forward.

 

It will only take a week or so to adjust to the different spacing and this is a minor inconvenience compared to the quantum leap you will experience with a better grade of concertina in your hands.

I have both experienced myself and seen in so many others, the huge improvement in playing that occurs after an upgrade. I suggest that, once you start to overcome the spacing problem, your biggest difficulty with the new concertina will be summoning up the resolve to ever take a break from playing. It usually becomes apparent very quickly just how much a lower grade concertina, especially one in poor condition, has been holding a player back.

 

Grab opportunity by the forelock.... he has no tail !

 

regards

Dave

 

PS What concertinas are you looking at ??

[Richard Morse]

how easy or difficult would it be to make my cheapo Bastari sound better with a makeover? Is there much that can be done with such a cheaply-made (but familiar) instrument?

There *are* some things that can be done to improve a Bastari somewhat which includes tuning, resetting reedplates, revoicing reed tongues, gaskets/leak chasing, and action replacement. Bob Tedrow has done this sort of "souping up" of Bastaris for years - and so could give you a better idea of costs vs. improved quality.

 

I'd hazard to guess that any improvement beyond 10-15% would be totally cost prohibitive as there wouldn't be anything left to improve. You'd have to get into whole hog redesign and replacement (not to mention repairing an already ailing box, in your case). I doubt if a Bastari could ever be improved to even approach the quality of one of the new mid-range anglo concertinas, much less that of a decent vintage anglo.

[raymy]

Many thanks for the advice...it seems everyone suggests an upgrade rather than an overhaul.Leave it with me.

[DMQuinn]

How much button spacing variation is common between makes of anglo concertina? Within one maker's work?

 

I have a Kensington Anglo, of which I am very fond, and a Wheatstone 48-button English c. 1920. It seems pretty clear that the difference in approach to playing between English and anglo accounts for the significant difference in button spacing, but I am hoping that someone with wider experience and exposure would be willing to comment on the factors which go into deciding how far apart to put the buttons on an anglo. Are there any recognized or established practical limits as to how close or far apart the buttons may be?

[Lawrence Reeves]

The differences I notice between anglos is easy to overcome within a few minutes. I have a 38-key and a 30 key instrument, that is a little more tricky to get used to, but once you do it is second nature. I think in terms of a whistle, or a chanter very similar to the "feel" between same pitched instruments by different makers. With my Suttner Bb/F there is no difference in size with C/G. Some 44 keyed Jeffries I have played add a little size difference, and the buttons are a little more crowded,but I have a harder time picking up an instrument with larger buttons like an old Lachenal, or a Dipper County Clare. Being used to small buttons and how I have developed my ornaments on them make that the style of choice.

[Mikefule]

I've never been put off buying a new car because the gear lever was a bit further to one side, or the accelerator pedal was nearer the middle, or the indicator stalk was on the "wrong" side. I wouldn't be put off buying a better concertina because the buttons were slightly differently placed.

 

I started on a Rochelle. When I upgraded to a Marcus, I found the feel and position of the buttons a little strange, but within a few days I had adapted. Then I found the Rochelle a little strange.

 

Then my teacher identified that I had got into a bad habit of which fingers I was using for certain crucial chord shapes on the left hand. I had about 10 months of "wrong" to change, and didn't dare play any of the tunes I knew well in case it reinforced the error. I spent a week of doing nothing but chord changes and now it comes naturally.

 

There is a reason why the better boxes are laid out like they are: it works better. There is a reason why cheaper ones are laid out differently: it's cheaper or easier, or less thought has gone into it.

[Richard Morse]

How much button spacing variation is common between makes of anglo concertina? Within one maker's work?

While I haven't compared the newer makers' instrument's button location/spacing, I've compared about 20 vintage anglos for

button location/spacing when starting with our Morse concertina design. There seemed to be very *little* variation within each maker's boxes (I restricted myself to Wheatstone, Lachenal and Jeffries) and only minor variations between Wheatstone and Lachenal and a greater difference between them and Jeffries.

 

The most noticeable difference is that the W/L camp had smaller radius curved rows of buttons with closer spacing than the Jeffries. There were also row slant-to-handrest, row offset, and button height differences. I find it interesting to note that each Wheatstone box button spacing was more consistent and Jeffries least consistent in "pattern" (IOW, the spacing was more "regular" with Wheatstone while some of the Jeffries boxes had button spacing varying by 12% or so).

 

With all that as a basis for "choice" we worked out and chose a round-number mathematical delineation to base the Morse layout on which turned out to be within the Wheatstone/Lachenal camp but on the Jeffries "side" of it the W/L average.

 

I feel good about going through that exercise and that we now have "hard numbers" to make our boxes from but don't think it really makes much difference to players. Most of the variations in vintage boxes are so small that the condition of the bushings would make for a greater variation and the largest differences (between extreme Jeffries and a Lachenal would be easily adjusted to.

I have a Kensington Anglo, of which I am very fond, and a Wheatstone 48-button English c. 1920. It seems pretty clear that the difference in approach to playing between English and anglo accounts for the significant difference in button spacing

How so?

 

-- Rich --

[Jack Bradshaw]

Many thanks for the advice...it seems everyone suggests an upgrade rather than an overhaul.Leave it with me.

 

It does look like my (now retired) Bastari is turning into a nice little midi ...easy so far...