Help Needed From 50 Button Anglo Owners

[nkgibbs]

I have a 50 button Lachenal Anglo (see below) and before getting it retuned wonder whether anyone who has a 50 button Anglo (or any make and key) or has had experience with such a beast, could tell me what their button layout is?

 

Many Thanks,

Neil

 

 

 

Left End

 

Right End

 

[JimLucas]

I have a 50 button Lachenal Anglo (see below) and before getting it retuned wonder whether anyone who has a 50 button Anglo (or any make and key) or has had experience with such a beast, could tell me what their button layout is?

I've never seen one quite like that, and the few 50-button Jeffries anglos I've seen (mostly in photos) had a very different arrangement of the buttons, never mind the notes. An example is here. The closest thing I've seen to your array of buttons is George Jones' patent 42-button layout. (For a web page with much more detail on that Jones, click here.) The Jones layout has three 7-wide rows in each hand, while your Lachenal has three 7-wide rows and a thumb button in the left and four 7-wide rows (plus the air button) in the right. I'm very curious as to whether yours is an extension of the Jones design or something completely different.

 

I'm pretty sure that the only way to know what the note layout "should" be on your instrument is to find out what it is, by playing each button in each direction and writing down the results. (If it leaks too much for that, it's still possible -- though more tedious -- to map which buttons connect to which chambers and then sounding the reeds in each chamber individually.)

 

You're talking about getting this instrument "retuned", but I think it deserves a full restoration, and only with the very best materials and craftsmanship. It's clearly a very special instrument.

 

On a separate "note", I think it would be worth trying to determine whether it was originally tuned in a non-equal temperament. If so, I think it would be worth keeping the original temperament, even if you choose to shift the standard A to 440. (I'm only guessing that it's not already A-440.) There have been various discussions of non-equal temperament in these Forums, and Paul Groff in particular has made a significant study of anglos tuned in different temperaments, and the relative advantages and disadvantages of each for playing different kinds of music.

[spindizzy]

I have a 50 button Lachenal Anglo (see below) and before getting it retuned wonder whether anyone who has a 50 button Anglo (or any make and key) or has had experience with such a beast, could tell me what their button layout is?

 

/quote]

 

Neil,

 

My Lachenal (English) both have the notes named on each reed chamber ... more complicated with an anglo - 50 buttons = 100 notes! but pencil, paper and detective work to map the buttons to the reeds, then you can let us know how a 50 button anglo goes.

 

Chris

[hjcjones]

It certainly looks unusual.

 

You will probably find that somewhere amongst that forest of buttons is a fairly standard (if there is such a thing!) Wheatstone/Lachenal 30-button layout, with other notes arranged around this according to the whim of the maker or the preference of the original player. In my experience, once you get more than the basic 30 buttons there is no standard layout for the extras.

 

Do you know what the "home keys" are ie is it C/G or something else?

 

If you can identify the "home" buttons you can start to work it out from there. With the extra buttons, it is probably a matter of trial and error. Try getting hold of a chromatic electronic tuner (of the type which will automatically detect the note being played, and which will allow you to select pitches other than A=440)

 

As a (very) last resort, if you take the ends off you will probably find that the reed frames have the notes stamped on them. You would then have to trace the action back to find which button plays which note. This would be extremly tedious, with the number of buttons you would have to deal with. Also, you don't say what condition the instrument is in - if it is at all dodgy then taking it apart might be risky and best left to a restorer, bearing in mind that the innards must be even more complex than usual.

 

When it comes to playing it, it will be easy to get confused by the number of buttons. Try concentrating on the "core" 30 buttons and use the extras to provide a choice of fingerings, alternative bellows directions, or to extend the range. You may also find that they make it possible to play in keys outside the usual ones

[nkgibbs]

It certainly looks unusual.

 

You will probably find that somewhere amongst that forest of buttons is a fairly standard (if there is such a thing!) Wheatstone/Lachenal 30-button layout, with other notes arranged around this according to the whim of the maker or the preference of the original player. In my experience, once you get more than the basic 30 buttons there is no standard layout for the extras.

 

Do you know what the "home keys" are ie is it C/G or something else?

 

If you can identify the "home" buttons you can start to work it out from there. With the extra buttons, it is probably a matter of trial and error. Try getting hold of a chromatic electronic tuner (of the type which will automatically detect the note being played, and which will allow you to select pitches other than A=440)

 

As a (very) last resort, if you take the ends off you will probably find that the reed frames have the notes stamped on them. You would then have to trace the action back to find which button plays which note. This would be extremly tedious, with the number of buttons you would have to deal with. Also, you don't say what condition the instrument is in - if it is at all dodgy then taking it apart might be risky and best left to a restorer, bearing in mind that the innards must be even more complex than usual.

 

When it comes to playing it, it will be easy to get confused by the number of buttons. Try concentrating on the "core" 30 buttons and use the extras to provide a choice of fingerings, alternative bellows directions, or to extend the range. You may also find that they make it possible to play in keys outside the usual ones

 

Dear Howard, Chris and Jim,

Many thanks for your very helpful comments. The 50 button Jefferies that Jim mentions is interesting because it seems to have exactly the same layout as the Duet shown at the bottom of this page. Could the anglo have once been a duet??

I am in the process of mapping the layout with a tuner and you are correct in suspecting that there is a reasonably standard 30 button layout buried within the 50 buttons! I think that one of the home keys is Bflat but still haven't quite worked out the other.........would F sharp be too weird???

Many Thanks,

Neil

[Robin Madge]

It looks very similar to the instrument the late Andrew Blakeny-Edwards is using for the Maple leaf rag on the Anglo International triple CD. Perhaps someone knows more about the layout of that instrument, since lost to theft I believe. I am sure that John Kirkpatrick would have played it at some time.

 

Robin Madge

[Greg Jowaisas]

Neil,

I had a brief email conversation with Chris Algar about the instrument prior to its sale. He described the instrument as an old pitch Bb/F. Chris felt that the left side was typical of an anglo in that key with an extra button at the top and bottom of each row. We didn't get into the right hand arrangement which, with its extra and extended rows should be quite interesting.

 

Good luck and give us all a diagram when you've figured it out!

 

Greg

[JimLucas]

The 50 button Jefferies that Jim mentions is interesting because it seems to have exactly the same layout as the Duet shown at the bottom of this page. Could the anglo have once been a duet??

Possibly, but I think unlikely. It seems that the button layouts that Jeffries used for duets were identical to those for anglos, only the notes underneath being different. Well, not only. Because of the different notes, the chambering of the reed pans would probably be quite different, as well. At least during the period that Jeffries was in business, I think it would have been much easier (and thus probably cheaper) to order a 50-button anglo than to convert a duet to an anglo (or vice versa).

 

I am in the process of mapping the layout with a tuner and you are correct in suspecting that there is a reasonably standard 30 button layout buried within the 50 buttons! I think that one of the home keys is Bflat but still haven't quite worked out the other.........would F sharp be too weird???

It would be very unusual. F is the usual pairing with Bb. If it's in old pitch, as Greg says, then an F row should sound between F and F#, but then the Bb row should also sound between Bb and B. Are the F's in the two rows (same positions as G on a C/G) in tune with each other?

[Stephen Chambers]

The 50 button Jefferies that Jim mentions is interesting because it seems to have exactly the same layout as the Duet shown at the bottom of this page. Could the anglo have once been a duet??

Possibly, but I think unlikely. It seems that the button layouts that Jeffries used for duets were identical to those for anglos, only the notes underneath being different... At least during the period that Jeffries was in business, I think it would have been much easier (and thus probably cheaper) to order a 50-button anglo than to convert a duet to an anglo (or vice versa).

In the case of the 50-key Anglo I'd agree with Jim, but I know that at least one Jeffries 4-row Anglo was converted into a duet by the firm themselves. It belonged to one-time ICA Secretary Jim Harvey, and it was he who got them to convert it.

 

And in more recent years, quite a few duets have been converted into Anglos...

 

I am in the process of mapping the layout with a tuner and you are correct in suspecting that there is a reasonably standard 30 button layout buried within the 50 buttons! I think that one of the home keys is Bflat but still haven't quite worked out the other.........would F sharp be too weird???

Bb/F# would certainly be weird, but as a tuner I've been surprised how many Jeffries in original high pitch B/F# I've encountered and repitched (half a semitone up) to concert pitch C/G.

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Bb/F# would certainly be weird, but as a tuner I've been surprised how many Jeffries in original high pitch B/F# I've encountered and repitched (half a semitone up) to concert pitch C/G.

 

It is interesting that, from a cursory glance through the records for the period 1889-1895 when John Crabb was still supplying Jeffries with 'unbadged' instruments, it appears for every one Bb/F, three B/F# instruments were being made.

Obviously there was a greater demand for these at that time. Why?, who knows?

 

Like Stephen, I would say that a 50 key Anglo would have been made to special order and any original allocation of notes to buttons outside the 'core' would have been the choice of the purchaser.

 

Geoff

[nkgibbs]

Many thanks for all your fascinating replies. I went to visit Roy Whiteley this afternoon and with a better tuner we determioned that the home keys of the 50 key Lachenal were Bflat and F (as originally stated by Chris Algar) and the pitch was 456Hz, which I understand was the tuning that the Salvation Army used?

 

The number on both bellow ends is 97477 which, I think, dates it to about 1900.

 

Anyway, Roy is going to work his magic on the mechanics and cosmetics of the box while I decide what to do about the tuning.

 

Best wishes,

Neil