Why Do Some Reeds Just Sound Bad?

[earl]

I have a lachenal bone button metal end concertina.

 

The reeds, most all of them, sound..... "flabby". They start slow, sound airy and are not loud.

 

I thought traditional reeds were supposed to sound good. I have some other concertinas that are bright, fast and loud.

 

What is the difference in the reeds?

 

Earl

[Greg Jowaisas]

Earl,

The symptoms you are describing can come from a number of causes. Poorly made reeds are just one.

 

Assuming the reeds in your concertina are original I think there is a decent chance that they are at least average quality Lachenal steel reeds and chances are, given your metal ends, that they are better than average Lachenal quality. (And Lachenal "could" do some outstanding reed work at times.)

 

If the reed pans are not properly supported by the corner blocks to make a tight seal with the soundboard or the seal between the reed pan and the bellows is not tight even the best reeds can sound weak and breathy.

 

Leaky bellows and pads can keep reeds from getting enough air. Old, stiff valves will not allow a reed to sound to full potential. A crack in the soundboard (button pan) can contribute to poor overall sound.

 

The idea is to effeciently direct all the air of the bellows to the reed being played.

 

If only some of the reeds are breathy there is a chance that the reed set is too high on those particular reeds.

 

If you are totally discouraged, I'd be happy to purchase the instrument as a fixer upper, but I suspect that a bit of work to tighten things up will give you more of the sound you are expecting from this box. Don't give up to soon!

 

Regards,

 

Greg

[Robin Harrison]

Hi Earl........put the concertina close to your ear (the note you are going to play, of course ) keep the bellows still, depress a key ( button) and then move the belows gently. What do you hear ? In a good quality , correctly set reed you will hear the reed play immediately.In a good reed that is incorrectly set, you will hear air rushing past the reed BEFORE it plays, if the set is too wide.This also happens on poor quality reeds that are correctly set beacause they are poor quality ( too much space between the reed tongue and the reed frame) If you look at a good reed that is breathy from a sideways view, the distance between the end of the reed tongue and the frame is too large.What to do............if you are not sure, send it to a competent repair person and they will transform it.....it may also need new valves.

Robin

[earl]

How do I know if I have poor quality metal reeds?

 

What kind of metal makes a good reed?

 

How much space between the reed and the reed frame is too much? .001" .002"?

 

Has anyone here made new reeds for their concertina?

 

Am I asking too many questions?

 

Earl

[JimLucas]

How do I know if I have poor quality metal reeds?

Have an expert examine them.

 

What kind of metal makes a good reed?

Hard spring steel. (Nickel and brass were used in early concertinas, but almost universally supplanted by steel. There may be other possibilities, but I don't know of anyone using them. ) Being more precise than that isn't likely to give a single answer, rather a book's worth.

 

How much space between the reed and the reed frame is too much? .001" .002"?

I think the answer is, "It depends." But I don't think your quoted numbers are low.

 

Has anyone here made new reeds for their concertina?

A few have. Very few. I have made a few myself, for instruments of somewhat less than the best (though not the worst) quality. I might even be able to do a few good reeds (certainly not a whole set) worthy of a top-quality Lachenal or even Wheatstone, but I suspect it would take me a few years to get them right.

 

Am I asking too many questions?

Not at all, though expecting short, simple answers that will automatically result in perfection might be asking too much.

 

But that's when it comes to making reeds. One real possibility (which others have already suggested) is that the problem isn't the reeds themselves, but internal leakage of air past the reeds, which could result from reed pan shrinkage, poor pads, and/or poor valves. Those problems are much easier to correct. Also possible (and already mentioned) is poor setting of the reeds. Fixing that can be much easier than making new reed tongues, but is still tricky, and the sort of thing that can only be learned through experience, not through a "cookbook" set of instructions.

 

Hmm. I just checked your earlier posts, and it looks like you have a bit more experience than I was assuming. But you've also gotten some help from Bob Tedrow. Are you too far from him (or The Button Box... your profile doesn't list your location) for a visit? You sound like someone who wants to do his own tinkering. A hands-on examination and discussion with an expert could be not only quicker, but far more informative than long-distance communication using only descriptions and pictures. (You'd be welcome to visit me, but I don't have a proper workshop, and I live in Denmark. )

[Chris Ghent]

How do I know if I have poor quality metal reeds?

 

Apart from the playing test, the single most important factor is the clearance between the sides of the reed and the frame. It is also the most obvious. Other factors are harder to pick without a micrometer and a microscope.

 

What kind of metal makes a good reed?

 

If you want volume and longevity a spring steel is best.

 

How much space between the reed and the reed frame is too much? .001" .002"?

 

Anything over .002", depending on other factors to do with stiffness etc.

 

Has anyone here made new reeds for their concertina?

 

There are a number of people who read this board who make their own. It is not difficult to make a reed that will play. A great reed can be made with care, but making batches of consistent reeds is usually tied to precision machine operations that take awhile to understand and devise. For a good exposition on some of the factors involved in reeds try this link to a recent discussion

 

As far as factors that might make a reed sound bad, as well as those listed you might add the following; reed touching the frame or wood, profile defects (usually being too thin, either in one place, leading to pitch variation, or overall), lack of decent seal around the shoe, resonant frequency issues, lack of sufficient mechanical coupling to the reedpan, and probably lots more.

 

best wishes

 

Chris

[earl]

cision machine operations that take awhile to understand and devise. For a good exposition on some of the factors involved in reeds try this link to a recent discussion

 

Thanks Chris, That thread was very helpful.