Premier English Concertina Band And More

[gentians]

There's a fine photo I've not seen before of the Premier English Concertina Band c. 1910 - 20 in a good article by Dick Henrywood in "The Antique Collector" magazine December 6th 2006- Jan 7th 2007. It shows 17 players plus conductor....i.e. 12 treble concertina players, plus three holding what look like 2 Basses and a single action Baritone. There's a wooden ended Edeophone and two large hexagonal metal-ended concertinas on the floor, a drummer with bass and side drum.... and a harpist with an orchestral-sized Harp!

 

This is described as an advertising postcard: "Lachenal & Co., makers, London W.C." and "Agent: J.J. Vickers, 82 Royal Hill, Greenwich S.E." being printed under the picture. Apparently Lachenal sponsored Alexander Prince and the Premier English Concertina Band.

 

The players are all men, smartly attired in dinner suits with matching high-collared shirts, white with two coloured diagonal stripes.

 

There are two more concertina band photos in the article - one anonymous c. 1905 -10 of 7 players (probably 5 trebles and 2 baritones, English system) but neither percussion not harp.

 

The other band postcard shows the Salvation Army Old Ford Brigade band dated 1920 - 21, 27 players, just six treble concertinas visible, plus a very long-necked banjo, a violin and lots of tamborines.

 

Does anyone know any more about the Premier Concertina Band?

 

gentians

[Guest Peter Laban]

 

another premier prize band

Edited February 3, 2007 by Peter Laban

[PeterT]

 

another premier prize band

I'm looking at a print of this photograph, now. I'm sure that Jenny Cox would be delighted to recap on how copies were made available back in the late 80's. Wonder if any of these concertinas are owned by Forum members?

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Alan Day]

I am currently putting together information on Concertina Bands some to be featured on English International.

We do have a recording of the Premier Concertina Band playing"In the Shadows" recorded on cylinder approx 1915, which was sent to me by Randy Merris who with Allan Atlas are concertina historians.I have a postcard of the band showing 18 concertina players (one of whom doubled up on one of two drums) and a Harpist. The Band was sponsored by Lachenal .

There seems to have been two competitions running at the same time as Belle Vue Manchester was also another venue.

 

 

PLEASE NOTE

I have deleted the information placed here as it clashes with an article in PICA not yet published

I was not aware of this article and it would not have been posted had I have known.

 

We have some fantastic recordings of Heywood and Ashton under Lyne Bands that will be featured on English International.

There is discussions going on at the moment for possibly two Concertina radio programmes for BBC4 one of which will feature concertina bands.I will of course let you know if that happens.Probably about a years time.

Exciting times

Al

 

 

I have deleted the Band competition details see my note above

Edited February 4, 2007 by Alan Day

[Geoffrey Crabb]

And another from my own archive. Date unknown but shows the diversity of instruments made by Lachenal at the time.

 

 

 

Geoff

[wes williams]

I am currently putting together information on Concertina Bands some to be featured on English International....

Keep in mind that the ICA have a programme for the 1922 Bellevue concert, thanks to Reuben Shaw, that lists the players in many of these bands by name and address. Also Stephen Chambers has an article on Joe Astley, leader of Heywood, due in the Autumn 2007 PICA. ...wes

 

Edit again to add that Stephen pointed out that Joe Astley conducted/led three bands in 1922 : Oldham, Heywood and Pendleton Victoria.

Edited February 4, 2007 by wes williams

[Stephen Chambers]

Keep in mind that the ICA have a programme for the 1922 Bellevue concert, thanks to Reuben Shaw, that lists the players in many of these bands by name and address. Also Stephen Chambers has an article on Joe Astley, leader of Heywood, due in the Autumn 2007 PICA. ...wes

 

Edit again to add that Stephen pointed out that Joe Astley conducted/led three bands in 1922 : Oldham, Heywood and Pendleton Victoria.

Wes,

 

Just to give everybody a sneak preview:

 

My article is titled "Joseph Astley, Oldham Concertina Band and the MHJ Shield", and started off as the Picture Feature for PICA but, like Topsy, "just grew and grew". It it is built around three band photos, two of which I have already posted on the forum, one (of the Heckmondwike Band) here in the "Where Is The Wheatstone Shield?" thread, the other (of the Oldham Band) here in the "Edeophone Leather Case, label" one.

 

Joseph Astley was well-known as the founder and leader of the Oldham Band, though it seems that he was also "instrumental" (if I may use that word ) in the formation of the Heywood one, and it is his copy of the 1922 programme that I'm working from.

 

Peter Hurst has described the trophy as The Wheatstone Shield, and I've been trying to contact him about that, as it seems to have been most usually referred to as the "50 guinea Challenge Shield" at the time, and officially as the "Musical Home Journal Shield", but I haven't had any success and I see that Peter was "Last Active 4th July 2006". (I hope all is well with him?)

 

By the way, the list of the Belle Vue competitions and their prize winners, that Alan Day has posted (my thunder stolen! ), will form part of the article, but with the addition of the Crystal Palace ones too.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Stephen Chambers

[Alan Day]

Apologies for that Stephen I was un aware that you were doing this article and as it had been previously published I thought it could do no harm.

 

I can shed light on the wherabouts of an ICA trophy

The Challenge Cup for English Concertina Playing with Test

Won 1959/61 by Lavinia Mc Dougall

Won 1962 by L. Lacey

Won 1964 by Rex Dunham

Won 1965 by Dorothy Nicoll

won 1967 by H.E Haig

Won 1975 by Norman Hall

Won 1977 by Norman Hall

 

I have got it. How? I have no idea.

Is it worth ICA having it back I would not think so.It is so tiny the above engraving fills it up,They are welcome to it of course just for archives.

If this competition starts up again I will donate a new cup to take it's place.

I have NOT got THE SHIELD.

Al

[Stephen Chambers]

... as it had been previously published I thought it could do no harm.

Al,

 

As far as I know, the Belle Vue results have only been published, pretty illegibly on an illustration of an old handbill, in Free Reed years ago (was it in the Ashton-under-Lyne article that I sent you?). But I've also got the Crystal Palace ones, published in editions of the Oldham Evening Chronicle around a century ago ...

Edited February 4, 2007 by Stephen Chambers

[wes williams]

I can shed light on the wherabouts of an ICA trophy...The Challenge Cup for English Concertina Playing .. Won 1975 by Norman Hall

I think thats Norma not Norman... is the engraving really that small?

I have got it. How? I have no idea.

Last I heard, all the 'tin' was due to go on show at the Music Room. But it must have disappeared after 1977, so I can try to find out the winners after that date. Anybody out there with a guilty conscience? I'll accept hush-money donations (on behalf of the ICA) not to name names

I have NOT got THE SHIELD.

Are you quite sure? Have you checked at the back of the garden shed? Up in the attic?.........

Edited February 4, 2007 by wes williams

[Alan Day]

I can shed light on the wherabouts of an ICA trophy...The Challenge Cup for English Concertina Playing .. Won 1975 by Norman Hall

I think thats Norma not Norman... is the engraving really that small?

I have got it. How? I have no idea.

Last I heard, all the 'tin' was due to go on show at the Music Room. But it must have disappeared after 1977, so I can try to find out the winners after that date. Anybody out there with a guilty conscience? I'll accept hush-money donations (on behalf of the ICA) not to name names

I have NOT got THE SHIELD.

Are you quite sure? Have you checked at the back of the garden shed? Up in the attic?.........

 

The engraving is of usual size, but as the cup is so tiny it has the actual engraving on the cup

on the back.The actual size of the cup with its base is 5" high it is not silver.

Now the Shield.Hold on the dogs are chewing something.

 

Stephen I have replied to you by Email.

Al

[gentians]

I'm delighted to see Alan and others have been collecting data on the historic concertina bands.

The original glorious Heckmondwike photo was found by Pete Coe on a market stall - he very kindly allowed me to copy it.

 

I know of various people who have got some archive stuff (including me). It would be good to try to make a cosmic list.

 

Just to bring you all up to date, concertina bands are not just historical. There has just been a very splendid concertina band weekend at Hawkwood College under the professional Musical Direction of Steve Ellis (City of Bristol Brass Band and Redland Wind Band) with Dave Townsend and Stuart Estell also leading. 37 concertinists and percussionist Ruth Hunt. 2 "G" basses, 5 "C" basses, lots of fine baritones, 2 piccolos, uncounted trebles and tenor/trebles.

 

Music for the whole band was Jealousy Tango, Fucik's Florentiner March, Selections from Showboat, Grieg's Hall of the Mountain King, Stuarts new Statements for Piano and Concertina Band and Dave Townsend's Valse de l'Artiste. Smaller groups played a Bach Chorale, a Canon for 5 dated Venice 1608, a new Village Band style arrangement of Ffidle Ffadle by Emma Gardner, and a group improvisation led by Stuart.

[wes williams]

I know of various people who have got some archive stuff (including me). It would be good to try to make a cosmic list.

Can I suggest that you (and anybody else) scan/copy your archive material and email/post it (I'll refund reasonable costs) to me (as ICA Archivist), or/and the Horniman Museum. So much has been lost over the years that we need some kind of security on what we have left for the future, and that isn't provided by individual holdings, which can be totally destroyed (the C&S fire comes graphically to mind). Although its thrilling to own an original document, its the information in that document that is the real gem for researchers, both current and future. The ICA wasn't blameless for such things in the past, but now I try to keep CD/DVD copies of the archive contents with other committee members and a few other places (eg Horniman, Allan Atlas at CSFRI USA, etc) in the hope that it will survive any catastrophy, and be fairly openly available. I don't mind anybody copying it or supplying copies at cost for genuine research, although I've also got some material that has been supplied as 'Archive Only' which can't go outside the ICA (specifically the archive, as it excludes ICA members too) without permission from the originator. But at least there is a multiple handle on it, and it doesn't just exist only with me.

 

Stephen's article is a case in point. He sent me a draft copy earlier this week, and I replied back this morning with part of the 1922 Bellevue programme from the archive. Luckily, he'd been sent a full copy of the programme from another source only a few days earlier, and had already started to revise some of his article, but what if the Bellevue programme hadn't been saved? Stephen and I, and quite a few others, are in fairly close contact, as you can see from the articles at concertina.com, but what about all the other stuff thats out there somewhere exclusively in private hands? And whats more important - an original document or the information it contains? Would you make provision for other researchers to use that information? How can we make a useable cosmic list when, like Stephen's query to the now missing Peter Brook mentioned earlier, we seem to so quickly lose contact on things by keeping them personal? Any other ideas or suggestions?

 

Down from soapbox, and off to bed ..

 

best wishes ..wes

[Alan Day]

I agree with Wes regarding archive information.I recently obtained some rare information on the Heywood Band from Walsall District Council via their Libraries a good source for this type of thing and newspaper articles from that period.The British Library I would think almost definitely would have more info.The archives I have just received are

1)The judges report on the Heywood performance

2)A copy of the concert by Heywood afternoon and evening performances which gives their programme of music,the soloists conductor etc.

3)A better photo reproduction of the band photo already featured on this forum,sent in by Stephen Chambers.

4) other snippets

As many of you know I have been fired up by this wonderful playing and my requirement for the information on each band for the booklet.I have also by writing about it generated interest by the BBC who want to do a programme about these bands.An interview has been organised for John Nixon to talk about his recollections of The Bolton Band that he played in from the age of Seven with his Father who was a member.John must be one of the few links left to these great old bands.

I read with sadness a posting by Dave Prebble in another forum that all the archive material,photos letters,receipts,etc were binned by the Widow of one of the ex band members of Mexborough as she did not know what to do with it.

I would like someone to do a History of Concertina Bands which would include Salvation Army, bands after the last War like Kensington, the newer bands Like New Mexborough,Butleigh Court ,as it is long overdue.

I have a number of old recordings from many private collection and I will try and talk Graham into using as many as possible on the collection, but we cannot let it dominate,although it was an important historical use of the English Concertina.

I think between us we have made a lot of progress where concertina history is concerned and a lot of it just in time.My only concern is too many people chasing the same information from the same source.A library being inundated with requests for information about the same subject may get angry and keep the info themselves , so please if you are investigating a subject tread with caution.

Al

[geoffwright]

It is interesting in the Heckmondwyke photo how many use a razor (3 or 4), and on the other photo, how many don't (3?).

Must be colder Oop North?

[wes williams]

It is interesting in the Heckmondwyke photo how many use a razor (3 or 4), and on the other photo, how many don't (3?).

Must be colder Oop North?

Good point Geoff, but 'the other photo' looks to be about the 1920s, so a generation later. But why do you think the Band is from down 'sauf'? Could this be the later 1920s fashions in the Oldham area?

[Alan Day]

Another thought regarding these bands is that it would appear that the average size of each band was in the region of over twenty.The concertinas mostly being Wheatstones ,that would have been one hell of an order going into Wheatstone for each bands instruments.I wonder if it made Wheatsone Concertina manufacture a viable business on the strength of these orders.Would they have been able to continue making so many had it not been for these large orders?Would we have had so many Wheatstone Concertinas about if it had not been for these bands?

Al

[PeterT]

Another thought regarding these bands is that it would appear that the average size of each band was in the region of over twenty.The concertinas mostly being Wheatstones ,that would have been one hell of an order going into Wheatstone for each bands instruments.I wonder if it made Wheatsone Concertina manufacture a viable business on the strength of these orders.Would they have been able to continue making so many had it not been for these large orders?Would we have had so many Wheatstone Concertinas about if it had not been for these bands?

Al

On the sample of these two photographs, Alan, it looks like the Wheatstone/Lachenal split was a bit more even. However, I recall seeing some "evidence" in the Wheatstone ledgers of "bulk" orders which I'm guessing would have been for band usage (i.e. several of the same model ordered on the same day).

 

Regards,

Peter.