Reed Difference

[LangGang]

What is the difference between accordion reeds and concertina reeds, and when purchasing a concertina how can I tell the difference?

 

Thanks.

[Mikefule]

What is the difference between accordion reeds and concertina reeds, and when purchasing a concertina how can I tell the difference?

 

Thanks.

 

here's a link to some relevant discussion in one of the other forums:

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=4894

 

It appears to me that accordian reeds are used because the bigger market for accordians makes them more plentiful, and therefore cheaper, than concertina reeds.

 

The difference you would notice as a player is one of tone. Just as a steel string on a guitar will sound different from a nylon string, and a plain steel string will sound different from a wound string. A wooden flute will sound different from a silver one.

 

Technically, it's all clever stuff to do with harmonics and overtones and undertones - stuff you can hear intuitively, or analyse with an oscilloscope or something.

 

A valid question is whether the distinctive sound of a true concertina reed was deliberately created or merely an accident of the materials and techniques available at the time the concertina was developed. Very few violinists use real gut strings these days...

Edited December 20, 2006 by Mikefule

[LangGang]

Thanks.

[Chris Timson]

A valid question is whether the distinctive sound of a true concertina reed was deliberately created or merely an accident of the materials and techniques available at the time the concertina was developed. Very few violinists use real gut strings these days...

I would put it slightly differently. There's not much space in a concertina, so concertina reeds need to be small, and indeed they are significantly smaller than accordion reeds. This is why you can have 48 and 56 button Englishes from Wheatstone and Lachenal, but the equivalent Morses and Marcuses have 37 (I think it is, anyway much less). Whether Wheatstone was looking for the comparative purity of tone that the concertina reed against the accordion reed present deponent knoweth not.

 

Chris

[LangGang]

Please excuse inaccurate terminology, but I noticed some reeds are mounted standing up in a block type mounting which is glued, while others are mounted in what I have heard called a "reed pan". Are the "reed pan" individually mounted reeds actual concertina reeds, or is it more complicated than that?

 

Also. I have a cheap concertina which is ok, but my "d" reed on the left bottom row usually doesn't sound without some coaxing. Is this something that can be fixed (other than buying a good concertina)?

[Chris Timson]

Please excuse inaccurate terminology, but I noticed some reeds are mounted standing up in a block type mounting which is glued, while others are mounted in what I have heard called a "reed pan". Are the "reed pan" individually mounted reeds actual concertina reeds, or is it more complicated than that?

 

Also. I have a cheap concertina which is ok, but my "d" reed on the left bottom row usually doesn't sound without some coaxing. Is this something that can be fixed (other than buying a good concertina)?

It is possible for accordion reeds to be mounted in a reed pan as well as concertina reeds, and indeed the better makers do just that, because the resulting sound is definitely more concertina-like. I would guess the problem with your D reed is due to the set of the reed. If I'm right it's pretty straightforward to fix yourself, but I'd rather one of the real experts told you how to do it.

 

Chris

[d.elliott]

This comment has been removed by my own editing as some members of the forum found it (unitentionally on my part) disparaging

 

Dave

Edited December 23, 2006 by d.elliott

[m3838]

If I might quote someone I know, :

 

Accordion reeds are for filling and tuning practise, concertina reeds are for making music!

 

Dave

 

Ooops, sorry Rich! Marcus et al

 

With so many people preferring accordion reeds/sound the above statement sounds convincing.

[Chris Timson]

Ooops, sorry Rich! Marcus et al

I should think so! Come on Dave, tell the poor lad how to set his reed - who better?

 

Chris

[Frank Edgley]

I'm a bit disappointed with the comment a couple of entries ago, and from a so well respected member of our community. To be so dismissive of accordion reeds does hint at a bit of elitism, to put it politely. Modern hand-made accordion reeds are made with at least the same or better tolerances than most old vinage concertina reeds. Differences in tone are subjective, but not qualitative. If left to modern vintage-style concertina makers to supply the market, concertina playing would remain as it was years ago--- something for the lucky few who could find a concertina and, unless they were very lucky, with noone to show them how to play it. It's no accident that very few people, nowadays, know what a concertina is! Some of us are spending all our time to produce the very best instrument we can. It's not for the money. I could make much more money doing part-time substitute teaching. I still have my teaching certificate, and I'm not quite "over the hill" yet. It does no one any service to poke fun at an honest endeavour to produce a quality instrument.

I can't help thinking about a situation a number of years ago, which parallels the statement in question. My wife (at the time) had purchased an Irish harp. I mentioned this to a teaching colleague, who was a music teacher and who associated himself with "the classical crowd." His response was, "Does it have red and blue strings like a real harp?" He had never seen or heard an Irish harp, let alone this one, yet it was somehow inferior, because it wasn't a classical one.

[Guest Peter Laban]

Come on Frank, there's no shame or elitism in thinking accordeon reeded concertinas sound like accordeons and feeling that is somehow not the right thing for a concertina.

[Chris Timson]

Come on Frank, there's no shame or elitism in thinking accordeon reeded concertinas sound like accordeons and feeling that is somehow not the right thing for a concertina.

Actually, I'm with Frank on this one. I am on record as saying that I prefer the sound of concertina reeds to accordion reeds in concertinas, and I speak as someone in the fortunate position of owning and playing both. But Dave's remark went a bit beyond that and was definitely disparaging, which would be discouraging for a maker as dedicated to his craft as Frank. It's certainly not something I would have said, and it's not something that I believe either.

 

Chris

[d.elliott]

They say humour does not travel, I never saw anything disparaging, elitist in quoting an 'off the cuff comment'. If others do then I am sorry for any offense that may have been percieved, certainly it was not intended.

 

I appreciate the use of the innovative use materials and undoubted craftsmanship embodied in all the modern reproduction instruments. I have not handled one of Frank's instruments, so I cannot comment on his concertinas specifically. I can also appreciate the high level of 'ownership' on behalf of the people who have put so much of their lives into developing their products, and that this will inevitably make the intended humour less than acceptable. I should have thought of that.

 

Dave

[Frank Edgley]

No problem, Dave. Sorry to have made an issue of it.

 

However, PETER: "Come on Frank, there's no shame or elitism in thinking accordeon reeded concertinas sound like accordeons and feeling that is somehow not the right thing for a concertina."

 

Response: That's not what was implied. The implication was that accordion reeds were only fit for practising tuning on, not playing. My response was to that, not to sound as that was not what I believe was said. Anyway, it was only a joke and it's best left alone, now, with no hard feelings.

Edited December 23, 2006 by Frank Edgley

[Jim Besser]

Actually, I'm with Frank on this one. I am on record as saying that I prefer the sound of concertina reeds to accordion reeds in concertinas, and I speak as someone in the fortunate position of owning and playing both.

 

I, too, play both, but have arrived at a somewhat different conclusion. I prefer the sound of my vintage concertina with traditional reeds. But...more and more I find myself playing one of the hybrids. They are as easy to play as the old one, maybe a little easier. More importantly, they are much more durable and less finicky.

 

They're also lighter, a relief to my damaged tendons.

 

And audiences don't hear the big difference I hear, especially when I'm on mic.

 

In an ideal world, I'd have just vintage boxes. But as a practical matter -- as someone who plays a LOT, who isn't particularly adept at repairs and who can't afford to send the box back to the shop every six months -- I'm finding the hybrids a boon.

 

Hopefully even more of boon when my extra-loud Edgley arrives!

[Frank Edgley]

Actually, after the dust has settled, I think Dave's suggestion has a valid point, although I know he meant it as a joke. It does make sense to practise on a more easily replaceable accordion reed, than on a vintage Jeffries reed, for example. Find an old clunker of an accordion and try tuning on a few reeds. Tuning is best left to an expert, but if you are determined to have a go at it, you can try that. However, if you plan to tune a whole instrument, a tuning jig is a necessity. Here's where a problem comes in. The necessary fixture (tuning bellows) for practice tuning accordion reeds will not work with concertina reeds and the jig will have to be rebuilt.

[Chris Timson]

They are as easy to play as the old one, maybe a little easier. More importantly, they are much more durable and less finicky.

 

They're also lighter, a relief to my damaged tendons.

Well, it's the weight that has led me to owning examples of both. I have a Morse Ceili G/D and Anne a Morse Albion baritone and both have given us problems with pads coming loose, including, annoyingly, in performance. There ain't much you can do in a North West morris band when you lose a pad except bash a tambourine. I've never lost a pad on my (Dipper restored) Jeffries, or ever had any other problem with it.

 

If I were doing all this living business again I'd still buy the Morse, and I'm pretty certain Anne would do the same. They are very good at what they do. But my experience has been that they have given me as many or more reliabilty problems as the older instruments that have been restored by people who know what they are doing. That's all I'm saying.

 

Chris