The Trouble With Anglo Concertina Availability

[Greg Jowaisas]

A couple of observations:

 

Folk music has traditionally been played on the available instruments at hand. 19th century fretless banjo players rarely played above the 9th fret. A fiddle player with an instrument weak in the bass register might develope a cutting treble style with fewer double stops. I've read accounts where an inexpensive German anglo was bought for Saturday night's dance, played literally to death, and then discarded in Monday's garbage. Many of the wonderful older musicians I've had the pleasure of visiting may not have had a "nice" instrument until they retired or were "rediscovered" in the American 60s folk boom.

 

So there is always a possibility of making "good" music on less than top notch instruments.

 

Presently there seems to be a lack of decent entry level instruments under $600. The Rochelle may help in this area. The Triskell may help at a slightly higher price. I think that most agree that an inferior concertina that is forever breaking and difficult to play can discourage even the most enthusiastic.

 

There do seem to be some great choices in the accordion reeded mid price range of $1500 to $2500.

I don't hear or perceive any complaints that the Edgleys, Morses, Tedrows, Marcuses, Normans, or Herrington's are holding anyone back because they are not fast or loud enough. (I wonder what choices the concertina playing public would have made if these instruments were available 100 years ago at 30% of the price of a Jeffries or Wheatstone?)

 

The mid to lower upper range is populated by a number of reconditioned vintaqe Lachenals and 50s Wheatstones.

 

For the well healed, or those fortunate to have acquired a box by inheritance or during a more opportune time or those who have dedicated funds or saved religiously there are occasional opportunities for Jeffries, Crabb and Linotas.

 

For those more patient a Kensington, Suttner, Carroll or Dipper is another top notch possibility but certainly at a potential financial sacrafice and with a delivery wait.

 

It seems to me that the group of people most at a disadvantage are the entry level beginners. All the other levels seem to have choices to match a player's ability and preferences and finances.

 

 

Back to the original question: Are players with less than top notch ability but with premium instruments making these instruments significantly harder to find and more expensive?

 

Well, how many Jeffs and Linotas are in incompetant" private hands? How many are in museums or collections? What would happen if we "collectivized" these concertinas and distributed them to the "needy"

(certainly deserving!) young players of Ireland? Where would the prices and supply situation be a year from then? In five years? Should an up and coming virtuoso 12 year old be given a great Jeffries or should a middle aged "hack" be allowed to enjoy the fruits of their hard won labor and savings in the privacy of their living room.

 

These are all interesting questions.

 

I'm rooting for the manufacturers of decent entry level instruments and the dedicated and wonderful contemporary makers of accordion reeded and traditionally reeded concertinas. I hope they all get MacCarthur Foundation grants to continue to supply us all with those marvelous concertinas!

 

One to a customer, I suppose!?

 

Greg

[Dave Prebble]

Hi all

 

Another sobering thought....

 

Many of the players with top notch instruments are products of the 60s & 70s 'folk revival' and are not getting any younger.

I doubt there are many who will insist on being buried with their concertinas so the chances of these instruments being released to the 'up-and-coming' increase by the day.

 

I too have left instructions as to how my concertinas will be disposed of in the event of my demise, and should I get to the stage that I can no longer play them, there is no way I will let them sit on the shelf.

 

....and so to bed.....

 

with my hot water bottle and cocoa

 

Dave

 

ps... Requests to be included in my 'disposal instructions' will, I assure you, receive close consideration only if stapled to a crisp new £50 note

[Leo]

An interesting twist for historical accuracy. Since the real popularity didn't start until the 60's, the implications might be far reaching if the "professional" musicians would be held to a "high historical standard" for the education of the audience to only play an inexpensive German anglo instrument. Anything else would be an inaccurate portrayal of history. I think that would cure the speculation of the original intent of this thread. After all, the historical accuracy would be an education in it's own right. Especially if the skills of the "professional" are superior to the "amateur". What a way to seed future players if at the end of the concert/dance/exibition the performer would throw the worn out instrument into the crowd to pe prized by the recipient with the hopes it will spark an interest and help the industry grow. Since the "professionals" are paid, I don't think it would create a hardship (they would always play a new instrument), especially if the cost of the replacement could be built into the ticket/admission price. Spread over the number of people in the audience, it can't be too expensive per person, and I think their charitable contribution would be appreciated. The recipient shouldn't be disappointed, after all they just watched a nice display of the capabilities of the instrument. Just a thought. I kind of like it. Any other good ideas??

 

Thanks

Leo

 

(note: no feeble attempts at humor were wasted in replying to this post.)

[stuart estell]

What a way to seed future players if at the end of the concert/dance/exibition the performer would throw the worn out instrument into the crowd to pe prized by the recipient with the hopes it will spark an interest and help the industry grow.

 

I like this idea very much... a bit like "doing a Pete Townshend" only without actually destroying anything...

[Woody]

.....What a way to seed future players if at the end of the concert/dance/exibition the performer would throw the worn out instrument into the crowd to pe prized by the recipient ....

Or what a way for the performer to be sued for injuring members of his/her audience by throwing instruments at them

[Leo]

Or what a way for the performer to be sued for injuring members of his/her audience by throwing instruments at them

OK i'm easy: how about a drawing or door prize?

Thanks

Leo

[Woody]

Or what a way for the performer to be sued for injuring members of his/her audience by throwing instruments at them

OK i'm easy: how about a drawing or door prize?

Thanks

Leo

It wasn't a criticism. It could make a show quite exiting

 

A Sort of Russian Roulette with Concertinas - for both the audience and the performer.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Woody

[Leo]

It wasn't a criticism. It could make a show quite exiting

 

A Sort of Russian Roulette with Concertinas - for both the audience and the performer.

Didn't think so. It might be a good idea. OK! A game? More points for smallest in stature. Less points for tallest, etc. Blindfold the entertainer. Take careful aim. (Stature of audience, not entertainer).

Entertainer collects points and at end of year/season, the one with the most points gets a real prize, and the contestant keeps the concertina.

Thanks

Leo

Edited November 7, 2006 by Leo

[lildogturpy]

It's the same model as this one:

http://www.gordfisch.net/music/oregans/mis...s/photo_01.html

.

Hi Leo,

 

Very interesting link; one or two nice tunes in the tune book.

 

Regards,

Peter.

PeterT

At least one or two. maybe a hundred. All listed at the top of the page under index. Nice music, nice site.

 

 

Glad you like the site. I haven't had a chance to update it for quite a while but I have a new collection of tunes ready to go on sometime before christmas.

Edited November 7, 2006 by lildogturpy

[Stiamh]

19th century fretless banjo players rarely played above the 9th fret.

 

[Greg Jowaisas]

19th century fretless banjo players rarely played above the 9th fret.

 

 

My main point is to say built in limitations of instruments can shape the music that gets played upon them. To me this music can be beautiful and valid unto itself even when compared to music played upon "superior " instruments by virtuosos.

 

My banjo example is the rhythmic, downstroke banjo playing that evolved into today's old-time, mountain clawhammer styles and is still primarilly played (with some exceptions) from the 9th fret down. The advent of fretted banjos in the mid 19th century enabled classical and ragtime virtuosity; More notes and chords and arrangements higher up the neck. Developement of the tone ring and resonator helped the banjo hold its own in a multi instrument band and set the stage for the aggressive and fast, punctuated bluegrass music of the 1940s to present. (I wonder if Earl Scruggs would have developed his distinctive and "jazzy" backup style up the neck on a fretless banjo?)

 

I play and love old-time banjo but enjoy listening to where the banjo has gone since 1900.

Are old time and bluegrass music capable of being beautiful and an expression of their cuture and their times? I think so.

 

And I think a thoughtful player can render beautiful music from a 20b Lachenal. Do they need or "deserve" a 38b Jeffries? Oops!! We are back to where we started!

 

Greg

[Dirge]

In due course the current fad for Irish folk will have run its course; the Anglo will revert to it's original state as an economy instrument for those who can't afford better and there will be a glut on the market as a result of the (relatively) high modern production supplementing the antique supply.

 

At that point the investors and diletantes will lose money badly but the true enthusiasts won't care and can then buy another Jeffries for spare as they motor on through endless jigs and reels, albeit to a shrunken audience.

 

It'll all come out in the wash!

 

(sorry, I can't resist it any longer)

[Mark Evans]

...And I think a thoughtful player can render beautiful music from a 20b Lachenal. Do they need or "deserve" a 38b Jeffries? Oops!! We are back to where we started!

 

Greg

 

 

I was hangin' on every word till' there.

 

hum, come to think of it, since I play the banjo in a number of styles and it has at times been a part of my profession, I'm covinced that to fully reach my potential, I simply must have a vintage Bacon and Day trap-door and a 1934 Gibson Granada flat top with an original 5-string neck. Yes, now who's willing to pony them up?

 

The B&D couldn't be worth more than say $9,000. The Granada on the other hand... $40,000+ and counting? You horders out there, who wouldn't want to help me reach my potential?

 

No volunteers? I thought not. Guess I'll have to make do with my home made banjo and my very good friend "Tina" the Morse Albion. S'okay. I've learned to live within my financial limitations and am challenged and well satisfied with the results I conjure from both fine instruments.

Edited November 7, 2006 by Mark Evans

[Guest Peter Laban]

In due course the current fad for Irish folk will have run its course;

 

Not likely in Ireland, there's a whole generation of new concertinaplayers just after starting and they will want instruments, and good ones too

Edited November 7, 2006 by Peter Laban

[Mark Evans]

In due course the current fad for Irish folk will have run its course;

 

Not likely in Ireland, there's a whole generation of new concertinaplayers just after starting and they will want instruments, and good ones too

 

 

and like young musicians the world over in many genre they will have to work their way through a number of instruments and situations until obtaining "the" instrument (if luck smiles upon them). That's life and it's a messy business.

[Jim Besser]

That's life and it's a messy business.

 

That's the perfect summation to this entire thread.

[Stiamh]

19th century fretless banjo players rarely played above the 9th fret.

 

 

My main point is to say built in limitations of instruments can shape the music that gets played upon them. To me this music can be beautiful and valid unto itself even when compared to music played upon "superior " instruments by virtuosos.

 

My banjo example is the rhythmic, downstroke banjo playing that evolved into today's old-time, mountain clawhammer styles and is still primarilly played (with some exceptions) from the 9th fret down. The advent of fretted banjos in the mid 19th century enabled classical and ragtime virtuosity; More notes and chords and arrangements higher up the neck. Developement of the tone ring and resonator helped the banjo hold its own in a multi instrument band and set the stage for the aggressive and fast, punctuated bluegrass music of the 1940s to present. (I wonder if Earl Scruggs would have developed his distinctive and "jazzy" backup style up the neck on a fretless banjo?)

 

I play and love old-time banjo but enjoy listening to where the banjo has gone since 1900.

Are old time and bluegrass music capable of being beautiful and an expression of their cuture and their times? I think so.

 

And I think a thoughtful player can render beautiful music from a 20b Lachenal. Do they need or "deserve" a 38b Jeffries? Oops!! We are back to where we started!

 

Greg

 

I'm with you all the way Greg (even to the last statement). I was only boggling at the idea of frets on fretless banjos. Not quite sure why, but this reminds of a Québécois joke:

 

- I'd like a coffee - wihout cream, please.

- I'm sorry, sir, we don't have cream. I can give you a coffee without milk if you like.

 

Steve

[Greg Jowaisas]

 

I'm with you all the way Greg (even to the last statement). I was only boggling at the idea of frets on fretless banjos. Not quite sure why, but this reminds of a Québécois joke:

 

- I'd like a coffee - wihout cream, please.

- I'm sorry, sir, we don't have cream. I can give you a coffee without milk if you like.

 

Steve

 

I see where you are coming from, Steve. Point and oxymoron well taken. Sometimes my thinking is limited by the starting point.

 

That's life and it's a messy business.

 

Amen!