Teenager On A Budget Looking For A Concertina

[JimLucas]

... does anyone notice a resemblance between the ends of the Chinese box and those of the Rochelle?

Could that be because they're both built in China?

It's because they both are built by the same manufacturer.

I believe that's true, and that the reason -- regardless of Chinese politics -- is that when Wim wanted to have the Jackie built in China, he engaged a factory that already had the relevant production facilities. I'm not at all sure that it's the only factory in China making concertinas, but I think that at the time it was the only one making "English-system" concertinas. It appears that he's staying with the same manufacturer for the Rochelle.

 

However, a major difference in Wim's instruments is that the construction is done to his specifications, including quality standards. He apparently saw no reason to radically change the fretwork design, but on the Jackie the placement of buttons, thumb straps, and finger plates accurately reproduces that of vintage English concertinas. Comparing the eBay "Chinese" picture to the Rochelle pictures, he seems to have applied similar standards to his anglo model. Compare the button layouts, the hand bar and strap, and the bellows. There are major differences, and they are important differences!

[JimLucas]

The extra buttons also give you the ability to play tunes that aren't restricted to simple diatonic "keys" and modes. Tunes with more than one accidental -- "White Christmas" is my favorite example -- simply can't be done on a 20-button. And I'm working on some Swedish tunes right now that work nicely on a 30-button, but aren't possible on a 20-button. Swedish tunes with a "tonic" of A or D often have multiple occurrences of both C and C#, but F's only natural (no F#).

While I generally agree with Jim and Woody that 30-button instruments are much more versatile, a 20-button anglo may be a better place for you to start, especially in your price range.

Quite likely. I didn't intend to be discouraging, just to highlight that your satisfaction will depend on what you expect to get out of the instrument. Being aware of the limitations before making a purchase helps avoid frustration.

 

I will say that one can get a lot of music out of a 20-button anglo. Even I can.

[Woody]

Comparing the eBay "Chinese" picture to the Rochelle pictures, he seems to have applied similar standards to his anglo model. Compare the button layouts, the hand bar and strap, and the bellows. There are major differences, and they are important differences!

 

This is certainly what I'm hoping as I'm on the pre-order list for a Rochelle to replace my "Chinese" Concertina. I did a lot of comparing between my box and the picture of the Rochelle to make sure that at least visually it seemed to rectify all the things that I found to be a problem with the "Chinese" one. It ticked all the right boxes so that's (along with Wim's reputation) why I decided to order one.

 

- W

[JackWoehr]

While what you say is true, is this really the place to try to discourage keen beginners from playing the Concertina and to persuade them to take up something else instead????

 

Woody, this really was answered by others, but I will reply since you originally addressed this comment to me.

 

Squeezeboxin' is squeezeboxin' to me. I play 'em all. Button patterns are easy to learn. What is difficult for the beginner is the bellows, it's like the bow to the violin.

 

Play one squeezebox and you can play any of 'em, that's what I say. I love concertina because it allows more bellows technique than the boxier accordion. But I still play accordion, mostly button, because it has a different sound and sometime I want that sound.

[Woody]

While what you say is true, is this really the place to try to discourage keen beginners from playing the Concertina and to persuade them to take up something else instead????

 

Woody, this really was answered by others, but I will reply since you originally addressed this comment to me.

 

Squeezeboxin' is squeezeboxin' to me. I play 'em all. Button patterns are easy to learn. What is difficult for the beginner is the bellows, it's like the bow to the violin.

 

Play one squeezebox and you can play any of 'em, that's what I say. I love concertina because it allows more bellows technique than the boxier accordion. But I still play accordion, mostly button, because it has a different sound and sometime I want that sound.

 

Hi Jack,

 

thanks for the response.

 

The point I was trying to make here was that in my opinion it seems a bit strange that if somebody comes onto Concertina.net asking for advice with regard to learning the Concertina, we try and direct them towards playing another type of instrument, however closely related it may be. If we were squeezeboxes.net I'd understand.

 

The points you made regarding costs are I think fair comment if somebody comes to us seeking information about comparisons of different types of squeezebox - I was just questioning it's appropriateness with regard to the specific question asked.

 

I just think that all forms of Concertina sound great and the more Concertina players in the world, the better. I want everybody that's interested in playing the Concertina to pick one up, fall in love with it and join our ranks. My fear is that if somebody wants to play Concertina but gets directed to another instrument instead, they may never come back and that's one less Concertina player in the world.

 

- W

[JimLucas]

Squeezeboxin' is squeezeboxin' to me. I play 'em all. Button patterns are easy to learn. What is difficult for the beginner is the bellows, it's like the bow to the violin.

 

Play one squeezebox and you can play any of 'em, that's what I say.

Maybe that's true for you, Jax, but my experience is different.

 

I play several kinds of concertina, but I haven't learned them all as easily or as well. I've tried my hand at different accordions, too, but I -- personally -- have found them more difficult to learn. While searching for my first English concertina I did get myself a 20-button Italian-made anglo -- better than Scholer, -- but I didn't get on well with it, and when I finally got a 1950's Wheatstone, it made a world of difference. (Now, decades later, I'm gradually developing proficiency on the anglo.)

 

If Lily tries starting with an accordion, I don't know whether her experience will be more like yours or more like mine. None of us do. Given her budget, it may be that her only options are starting with a button accordion, starting with a really dubious 20-button anglo, or not starting now. If that's the case, then I would also recommend that she at least try a cheap, decent button accordion. But to claim that what was true for you must necessarily be true for everyone is simply wrong.

[m3838]

/ Button patterns are easy to learn. What is difficult for the beginner is the bellows, it's like the bow to the violin./

 

Agree. If a person wants to spend $100 on a concertina, it's 20 button Anglo. Which means, a one row button accordion, more affordable, will give this person a pass to future Anglo playing. But instead of sitting and collecting money, she'll be learning. She must get a true encouragement, an advice on better suitable instrument, relevant to future progress, not a feel good comment.

 

/ Given her budget, it may be that her only options are starting with a button accordion, starting with a really dubious 20-button anglo, or not starting now. /

 

Sums it up.

 

To Woody.

 

So if you have your plastic 20 button (what's the price?) and a cheap Chinese 30 button (the price?) and Jones (the price?), what is your suggestion? Buy a cheap instrument, then another, then another?

Why not good one from the beginning? No money? Then either forget it or slighly shift the orientation and look into accordions. Nothing wrong with saying: "sorry, you can't join our ranks, but you can do something similar there and there..."

[Woody]

To Woody.

 

So if you have your plastic 20 button (what's the price?) and a cheap Chinese 30 button (the price?) and Jones (the price?), what is your suggestion? Buy a cheap instrument, then another, then another?

 

 

20 button - comes up regularly on Ebay new for $80 less used

30 button - as listed new on Ebay $110 less used

Jones 26 Key G/D from Barleycorn $1200

 

Bought 20 button at time because it was all I could afford. Got lots of good use out of it and learned a lot. Will be selling it on soon - reason I haven't sold it yet is because it is loaned out to somebody else who has started to learn to play Anglo. They've also made good progress and are planning to buy a Rochelle.

 

 

Bought Jones when I had more money & because I wanted a G/D. Jones will be sold when I get my Norman 30 button G/D. Replacing Jones because the style of music I'm gravitating to needs a 30 button box.

 

 

Bought 30 button Chinese for 2 reasons

 

1. A lot of the time I have available for practice is when I'm cooking in the kitchen. Strangely enough I don't want to have my Jones living in that kind of environment . Needed accidentals to transfer directly what I play on Jones - so 20 button not much use - so I got the 30 button. Now that the Rochelle is becoming available I'll be replacing this box with one.

 

2. The workshops I've been to have been dominated by C/G Anglos. This means that having a C/G box is useful to bring along to these situations.

 

 

With hindsight I'd obviously have just gone straight to the 30 button chinese box - but then my friend may not have learned to play Anglo if I had. If I were starting now I'd probably hold out a bit longer and go for a Rochelle.

 

Personally I think that in an ideal world everybody should start learning on a Concertina of Dipper quality - but I doubt that Colin & Rosalie, nice people though they are, are likely to start giving them away any time soon. (If I'm wrong about this can you please add me to the list ASAP please )

 

So back in the real world, my advice would I think be the same as most peoples' -

 

"Buy the best Concertina that you can afford".

 

 

 

Why not good one from the beginning? No money? Then either forget it or slighly shift the orientation and look into accordions. Nothing wrong with saying: "sorry, you can't join our ranks, but you can do something similar there and there..."

 

Personally, if when I was beginning I'd taken your advice I wouldn't be playing any kind of squeezebox now. I've tried other types - Melodeon and Accordion - they left me quite cold and unimpressed - they were not what I was looking for, whereas the first time I played some notes on the Anglo I was hooked.

 

 

You seem to consistently ignore the point I make that many Concertina players have successfully taken their first steps playing these types of boxes.

 

I've lived in the budget box world and while I know that there are obviously lots of problems and pitfalls you can encounter, I also know that it's possible to make a good amount of progress learning on one of them. I've also met other players that have successfully navigated this path. My posts are based upon, at this point in time, 14 months learning to play - playing every day often for an hour or more, with a large amount of this spent playing exactly the types of Concertina we are talking about here.

 

You post very definite views about these types of boxes so I assume you must also have experience of learning on these budget boxes with which to base your opinions. Would you mind sharing what experience you have with these types of boxes so that we can better understand how to judge your opinions?

 

 

From my perspective I think I'm just repeating myself so I'll bow out now. I think there's enough views here for Lily to form her own opinions so before departing from this thread can I just take this moment to wish her all the best with whichever route she chooses to take.

 

- W

 

Edited by Woody to add additional comments

Edited June 24, 2006 by Woody