Hayden Duet / Concertina Workshops

[squeezegirl]

Greeting All

 

And thanking you for the information you supplied re a post I submitted a few days ago.

 

I hope some of you can assist me with these two q's ...

 

1. (a) Is anybody making Hayden Duet concertinas besides Stagi?

 

( What is the general opinion on the street of the Stagi Hayden Duet

 

2. Can anyone suggest to me two or three up-coming Fests/Workshops that I can attend and see a variety of free reed instruments as well as attend some Workshop sessions where I may be able to learn something?

 

Thanks to all of you!

 

Maria

[m3838]

Stagi Hayden Duet is just as crappy as any other Stagi instrument.

The weekest point is the sound. Squeaky and not substantial.

From the 1-5 the sound/price ratio is 1. Craftsmanship/price is 2. You can get a decent Korean made up-right piano for this price.

If you are going to play big chords, you'll

a. run out of air

b. completely overpower the trebble melody.

c. will have to play really loudly, because all the air will go into sounding big reeds and small reeds will be silent at lower pressures.

If you really die for the duet - Crane is for you. It's a good system. But don't go cheap - not worth it.

[Ken_Coles]

Bob Tedrow will, and some other makers. My aging summary is here.

 

Ken

[Robert Gaskins]

Another negative review of the Stagi Hayden Duet is at

 

www.concertina.com/gaskins/which-duet

 

"This article compares two concertinas: a Stagi Hayden Duet concertina (c. 2003), and a Lachenal Maccann Duet concertina (c. 1900). Each instrument has 46 keys, and each cost £500 ($800) ready to play ... ."

 

Bob Tedrow http://hmi.homewood.net/hayden/ sure looks like the best source for a Hayden any time soon, as Ken suggests.

[Spectacled Warbler]

Bob Tedrow’s Hayden is available with just a 4 month wait.

 

Marcus tell me that they make about one Hayden duet a year, when they have spare time after making their other concertinas. There are about 6 people in the queue.

 

Wim Wakker (Concertina Connection) are planning to start making Hayden duets later this year, probably a 46 key similar to the Stagi layout, plus a larger version with about 55 keys. The larger version will also be available in midi.

 

The Button Box are also planning to make a Hayden duet, but it’s still in the R and D stage and no release date was being published when I last asked a month or so ago. They buy Stagis, tune them to concert pitch and make some other improvements which are described on their website, then resell them.

 

Not sure if the Russian Hayden mentioned in Ken Coles’ article is available – I keep meaning to find out but never do.

 

The Stagi’s o.k. but it is about 10 – 12% sharp compared to concert pitch. It doesn’t sound like a concertina – it’s got accordion reeds, but I like the sound. If you buy one, and you’re not getting the Button Box improved version, I wouldn’t buy mail order. Often the reeds don’t all work, in new Stagi instruments of all descriptions, so if you don’t want to have to sort that out yourself, you’ll need to get the shop selling it to you to make it playable before you give them your cash.

 

The Stagi’s not a particularly easy instrument to play if you’ve got small fingers – the buttons are large as you’ll know, they’re sprung quite tightly so you’ve to press reasonably hard to get them to sound, unless you get your fingers in exactly the right position they slip off and the button springs back up with a loud snap. They’re quite widely spaced so some aren’t easy to reach. It’s also a bit cumbersome, but it plays quietly if you want to accompany singing, and the bellows are responsive enough to get a strong rhythm into your playing if that’s what you want. M838’s comment about the lower notes drowning out the higher notes is sorted by putting masking tape over the inside of the left hand soundholes – it does change the sound a bit, but it’s still o.k. For those of you having fits at such sacrilege, I wouldn’t do this to a proper concertina.

 

Workmanship and design. The device holding one of the handstraps came off within 5 hours of me starting to play it, and needed me to replace the Stagi screw with a longer one. The neoprene which provides the airtight seal between the action box and reedpan wasn’t glued on properly and needed adjustment before it was sold. The inside’s full of wood dust. Some of the reeds aren’t particularly easy to get at if there are problems – I’ve not had any more problems with mine yet but I’ve only had it a couple of months.

 

The good thing about the Stagi is that it’s available. Now. £600 for an instrument that is at the bottom of its class is an awful lot of money to pay, but if a Hayden duet is what you want, you don’t have $3800 for a Tedrow, and you’re not expecting a world class instrument, you could get a lot of pleasure from a Stagi. I certainly do. I bought mine from a shop in England, but wouldn’t do that again with hindsight – I would buy one of the Button Box concert pitch ones which work out about the same price.

 

Roll on next year when there’ll hopefully be a better selection of decent instruments!

 

Good luck.

 

Joy

[Ken_Coles]

2. Can anyone suggest to me two or three up-coming Fests/Workshops that I can attend and see a variety of free reed instruments as well as attend some Workshop sessions where I may be able to learn something?

 

Thanks to all of you!

 

Maria

 

Maria

 

As always, we can help you with this if you'll tell us what continent and nation (and maybe even area) you are in. Consider adding it to your profile (click on your own name to get there). I am in the Northeast U.S., our host Paul S. is in eastern Canada, and our members are from all over. Where are you?

 

KEN

[peverett]

Hello Maria! I hope you find a Hayden that pleases you.

 

I've played a Stagi for years now, and gotten much pleasure from it. It was better than me for a long time.

 

The Stagi has the virtue that you can get one, for not much money, in finite time, with a chance to test drive, now.

 

Now to them as roll their eyes and say "Well, it's not a _____": I grant you every single point you make. I'd love to own a _____, and if the chance comes along, as makers ramp up their production (please, Lord), I will. But for string-band jam playing the Stagi is plenty loud (I have to be careful), the bass is a virtue, and played gently it works behind a singer. I LIKE the tone -- it's pretty played alone, yet cuts through the banjos.

 

Lately I've been asked to play out some, so I'm thinking about a spare instrument... let's see, $7-8K for two 'upgrade' model Haydens, or $800 to get a fresh model from The Button Box. Hm...

 

My advice -- if you're domestic (US) take advantage of the Button Box and try their Stagi. See if a Hayden is really what you want. And while you're learning the system, we all wait and see what the incipient production actually delivers.

 

Best of luck, Paul E

[Spectacled Warbler]

Oh yes – I forgot about the extra percussive effect exclusive to Stagi from the plastic valves opening and shutting with an audible unmusical click on each note. The valves warble if you play loudly, as well. If you buy a Stagi you may need to turn the handstraps round as mine dug into my hands and made my thumbs numb for a week. You may also need to put some extra padding on the handrests which are a bit low – bits of an old car steering wheel cover did the trick here. And be prepared for your little fingers to ache at first if they're not used to playing instruments.

 

But if you can put up with the niggles, and are prepared to accept that it may not last many years, and will not hold its value, it’s worth considering if a Hayden is what you definitely want - because it's the only one that's readily available at a reasonably low cost. The fact that someone was probably paid wages to design some parts of the Stagi so badly is a bit galling, but they are definitely not unplayable. I enjoy playing mine and look forward to the time of day when I've got spare time to practice – I’d just enjoy it more if it was made to a better specification, that’s all.

 

All the best.

 

Joy

[David Barnert]

Is anybody making Hayden Duet concertinas besides Stagi?

Of course. Steve Dickinson of C Wheatstone & Co is making mine right now. He started in 1989 when I sent my deposit. When I sent an additional cash installment in June 1992, I received word that I could expect my completed 55-button Hayden Aeola that coming Autumn. I haven't heard from him since, despite several attempts.

Can anyone suggest to me two or three up-coming Fests/Workshops that I can attend and see a variety of free reed instruments as well as attend some Workshop sessions where I may be able to learn something?

If you're anywhere near Amherst, Massachusetts on Saturday, April 8, check out the Button Box's Northeast Concertina Workshop. No specific Hayden workshops, but David Cornell (Maccann Duet player) will lead some general duet workshops and there are likely to be quite a few Hayden players (including me) in attendance.

[JimLucas]

...check out the Button Box's Northeast Concertina Workshop. No specific Hayden workshops, but David Cornell (Maccann Duet player) will lead some general duet workshops and there are likely to be quite a few Hayden players (including me) in attendance.

I think there's a good chance Rich Morse will also be there, no?

[m3838]

Hi all.

Specifically for the reason to verify my opinion about today's Stagi I stayed for a while at Kimrick's shop yesturday and sat with the Stagis, that he has on the shelves.

30 button, 20 button and 20 button Hohner.

Hohner was the best sounding, interestingly enough, but a few reeds choked etc.

Now the Stagi.

I asked Kimrick if he had gone through it and he said, yes, some, here and there. But generally it's more or less the way it came from the Factory. My impressions: significant improvement of the action. It is quiett, fast, well balances and very smooth. A surprize!

Sound is good, very accordiony. Very very accordiony. In a good sort of way. Especially the low reeds on the left. Not your fastest, but good enough. Right side is somewhat squeaky, but much less, then I expected. Bellows are airtight, but look kind of strange, unfinished, with flaps and bits sticking out of the creases. But overall looks good.

Now I'd change the hand straps, and I would buy them only from either Kimrick in Oakland CA, or Button Box. Or I'd send it to Homewood for "hot-rodding".

I suspect though that this Stagi was thoroughly worked on by Kirmick. He doesn't remember, but the action is so good, it's a pleasure just sit and push the button.

So I'd take some of my negative comments out.

They were based on the model of Stagi Hayden I had for 2 weeks a few years ago. If new Haydens from Stagi are as improved as the Anglo I tried yesturday - Wow, what progress.

[Richard Morse]

Can anyone suggest to me two or three up-coming Fests/Workshops that I can attend and see a variety of free reed instruments as well as attend some Workshop sessions where I may be able to learn something?

If you're anywhere near Amherst, Massachusetts on Saturday, April 8, check out the Button Box's Northeast Concertina Workshop. No specific Hayden workshops....

Actually, there IS a Hayden workshop. I'll be teaching it during our morning session. From our NCW Registration page:

• Beginning the Hayden Duet: Understanding the system, fingering techniques, and typical left side note/run/chord sequences applicable to common dance tunes. We'll have several Hayden concertinas available for people interested in exploring this system.
  

Last year I had an "intermediate" session but most of the attendees played OTHER system concertinas (mainly English) and were there mostly out of curiosity - so it turned out to be a pretty fractured workshop with me showing the non-Hayden players how the system is set up and what one could do with it while trying to describe the techniques I was using to the Hayden players there.

 

This year we're taking a different approach. My workshop is geared FOR rank beginners and for those interested in the system. We'll have several Stagi Haydens for the "interesteds" to explore with. By the end of the session I fully expect everyone (who has has ANY concertina experience of any level) will be able to play two or three tunes with accompaniment in several keys, be able to take away information on many accompaniment techniques, and have a good idea of what duets are capable of doing.

 

And then there's the other end of the duet spectrum - David Cornell. He's an amazing player, very innovative, inspired, funny, sings too! His main box is a large Maccann though he's gearging his workshops for any type of duet (as the rendition techniques are similar - just where what button is located is the difference). I'm really looking forward to them!

[greenferry]

Steve Dickinson of C Wheatstone & Co is making mine right now. He started in 1989 when I sent my deposit. When I sent an additional cash installment in June 1992, I received word that I could expect my completed 55-button Hayden Aeola that coming Autumn. I haven't heard from him since, despite several attempts.

 

Dave,

 

That's an incredible story. You paid a deposit in 1989, an additional installment in 1992, and here we are in the Third Millennium, 17 years later. Does Steve Dickinson still exist? Has anybody ever heard of him? Does Wheatstone have any record of it? Should people be wary of purchasing from Wheatstone?

[David Barnert]

That's an incredible story.

It is what it is. It's not unique. A friend put down a deposit at the same time, the thinking being that he could build two Aeolas in tandem and save a little time and effort. I do not expect to see anything come of it.

Does Steve Dickinson still exist?

He updated his web site 7 February 2006.

Should people be wary of purchasing from Wheatstone?

I don't know enough of other people's experiences to be able to answer that.

[greenferry]

That's an incredible story.

It is what it is. It's not unique. A friend put down a deposit at the same time, the thinking being that he could build two Aeolas in tandem and save a little time and effort. I do not expect to see anything come of it.

Does Steve Dickinson still exist?

He updated his web site 7 February 2006.

Should people be wary of purchasing from Wheatstone?

I don't know enough of other people's experiences to be able to answer that.

Have you tried telephoning? Telephone: +44 (0)1449 615523

Perhaps someone on C net could pay him a visit . . . 21 Bridge Street, Stowmarket, Suffolk IP14 1BP, UK

I would get an answer back from him, and let all of us know what he says about it

C. Wheatstone & Co. should honor its agreements. I don't think that's right.

[Ivan Viehoff]

As Ken says, the only person other than Stagi advertising to make you a Hayden this side of the end of the decade is Bob Tedrow.

 

What is news is that Marcus has actually made some Haydens. They have kept very quiet about that. The last news on this site, a couple of years ago I think, was that there was a problem with the prototype and it was back to the drawing board. But with a waiting list apparently already extending past the end of the decade, he doesn't need to advertise.

 

We would be most interested to know what a Marcus Hayden is actually like.

 

You have to wait a long time for any kind of Dickinson/Wheatstone or Dipper concertina, but it seems you may have to wait even longer for a Hayden. The Russian "Haydenovskaya" never got past prototype. We haven't heard anything on this forum about Morse's proposed Hayden for about a year now: the last we heard was that he was having difficulty finding a workman of suitable dexterity to do the reedwork.

[jdymit]

Perhaps all the negative comments about the Stagi/Hayden are true - maybe it is a substandard instrument not worthy of serious persuit or performance - maybe it does sound like (gasp) an accordion and handle like a tank. Be that all as it may, I can truthfully say that for me personally, I have never in my life made a purchase which has rewarded me more generously than the Hayden I bought from the Button Box more than a year ago.

 

The purchase price is a pittance when compared with the payback.

 

I absolutely love it. It can make beautiful, moving music. You can make your listeners cry or dance or sing - it's all up to you and the level of artistry you care to invest.

 

Would I like a better instrument? - Sure - but I love the one I've got, you bet.

 

Joe Dymit,

Chicagoland

[Stephen Mills]

...if a Hayden duet is what you want, you don’t have $3800 for a Tedrow...

In the interest of not scaring off any prospective customers for Bob, let me say that this figure is a third more than I paid for a Tedrow Hayden just last fall, which is consistent with what Ivan Viehoff's article on duets quotes.

 

Bob is a pleasure to work with, of course. He recently acquired a new milling machine that allowed him to realize an improvement he had devised on the Hayden reed pan, so he upgraded mine free of charge.