Gap Between Bellows Frame And Reedpan

[Alan Miller]

I have a small but visible gap between the reedpan and bellows frame in the location of G/A reeds on the G row (LH). As a result, I need lots of air when I use that draw A in order to match the volume of the other notes. This note was always a little lighter but lately it has become more pronounced. I suspect that the low indoor winter humidity in New England is a factor. It averages around 10%. I am going to use a humidifier in the "concertina room" in the future, and expect that to help but not to totally solve the problem. For now I have placed a folded over piece of heavy paper in the gap. It definitely helps but I question whether this is a good long-term solution. I checked Dave Elliott's book, and he seems to recommend roughing the chamois, but that would not do enough. I would like to know if others have experienced this problem, and if so what their solutions have been. Thanks, Alan

[Frank Edgley]

This is a very common problem with vintage and vintage style concertinas. Even comparatively newer instruments can have this problem. First, remove the reedpan, after determining the area of leakage. Then, carefully peel back the chamois from the inside of the bellows frame in that specific area. Take it to the top edge of the frame, but not any further. Cut a strip of business card stock and position it where the chamois had been glued down. Replace the chamois and see whether that is sufficient by temporarily reinserting the reedpan. It should be slightly snug, but not tight. If that seems to solve the problem, you can reglue the chamois down using an easily removable glue, such as a children's glue stick. When you reassemble the concertina, you should notice a marked improvement.

[Alan Miller]

Frank: That is a very helpful suggestion that makes good sense. Your answer demonstrates how useful this site can be. Thank you. Alan

[Mike Pierceall]

This is a very common problem with vintage and vintage style concertinas. Even comparatively newer instruments can have this problem. First, remove the reedpan, after determining the area of leakage. Then, carefully peel back the chamois from the inside of the bellows frame in that specific area. Take it to the top edge of the frame, but not any further. Cut a strip of business card stock and position it where the chamois had been glued down. Replace the chamois and see whether that is sufficient by temporarily reinserting the reedpan. It should be slightly snug, but not tight. If that seems to solve the problem, you can reglue the chamois down using an easily removable glue, such as a children's glue stick. When you reassemble the concertina, you should notice a marked improvement.

 

Frank, I thank you also. I was looking for a way to more permanently address this problem. Mike

[JimLucas]

...carefully peel back the chamois...[etc.]

Frank's is the correct permanent solution, but if you're not nimble-fingered when it comes to "craft", it is possible to tear or otherwise mess up the leather that you're "lifting". A more "temporary" result can be obtained by simply laying the card stock -- or an appropriate thickness of soft leather*, which is what I prefer -- between the reed pan and the existing lining of the bellows end, then carefully reinserting the reed pan without displacing the card or leather (or maybe so that it displaces into the correct position).

 

Reinserting the reed pan with the shim laid in unglued like this rather than under the original lining can be a delicate operation -- even more delicate than the "permanent" solution, -- but if you don't get it quite right, you can easily start over. When I've used the more permanent peel-back solution I've always laid in the card or leather first, peeling back the original lining only after I was sure I had the size and thickness right. On a couple of my own concertinas the "temporary" repair has served me so well that after years of trouble-free playing I forgot I'd done so, until finally reopening the instrument for some other reason.

 

An advantage to the temporary solution is that if the gap really does vary with the seasonal weather, it's possible to undo the insertion or vary its thickness accordingly.

 

* My favorite leather for this purpose is something I was told is used by a restorer of antique dolls for fashioning new "hands" for the dolls. Unfortunately, I've forgotten the details of the animal it came from and the tanning process, if I ever knew them. Glove leather should also serve well, though.

[Alan Miller]

Jim: Those are also excellent observations and suggestions. I do intend to monitor the extent to which changing humidity is implicated before I do anything permanent, and I like the idea of a soft leather "temporary" shim. Thanks, Alan

[JimLucas]

... I like the idea of a soft leather "temporary" shim.

By the way, the reed pan images on this page show how I've done it. I even used leather of two different thicknesses (easily seen by their different colors). It's clearest if you click to view the high-resolution images.

[Alan Miller]

Jim: Thanks for the picture of the reed pan. It is quite helpful. It looks look you had quite an extended gap there involving several chambers. It is interesting that the English in your picture was a Salvation Army concertina. It might have had quite a bit of exposure to cold weather. Alan

[d.elliott]

I always treat this problem by doing what Frank has said in his initial response to this thread. The shrinkage is not usually over the long axis of the reed pan grain, but accross it; and is likely to have occurred in the original post manufacure latter stages of the wood's seasoning process; and then further susequent drying out over many years. It (the shrunk wood) will not be likely to grow back, the reed pan is bye-and-large stable. So why not just do the job?

 

I have never had chamios leather tear under these repair circumstances, the only time I have had to replace the bellows frame gasketing is when some PRATT has glued soft leather, or a card packer, or another layer of chamois over the top of the original gasket.

 

So, don't be timid, just do the work. Imagine trying to arrange all the loose bits of all-sorts in the middle of a session after clearing a fouled reed????.

 

cheers Jim

 

Dave

[JimLucas]

I have never had chamios leather tear under these repair circumstances,....

I wouldn't expect you to have that problem, Dave. But not everyone is as good with their hands as you are. My suggestion is a way for someone -- especially a first-time "craftsman" -- to discover their level of competence without doing anything irreversible.

 

But some additional advice from you or Frank could be useful. What tool(s) do you use for lifting the lining? Fingers? Knife? Chisel? The answer may be obvious to you, but not necessarily to someone who hasn't done this kind of work before.

 

Imagine trying to arrange all the loose bits of all-sorts in the middle of a session after clearing a fouled reed????.

Could be difficult, I suppose, though once the "loose" leather has been pressed in place for a while by the reed pan, I find it's usually possible to remove and replace the pan without disturbing the leather. But in the 15 or so years between inserting the leather into the instrument in those photos and opening it to take the pictures, I never had to take out either reed pan for any reason. I really had forgotten what I'd done. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever having to open any instrument for adjustment or repair during a session. Maybe I'm just used to attending lint-free sessions? (I did once replace a spring for John Roberts during a concert. Good I had my portable repair kit and spares with me.)

 

In any case, I have proposed the "loose" solution only as a temporary measure. When it has become a long-term solution in my own instruments, it has been by accident... the accident of its effectiveness.

[JimLucas]

It is interesting that the English in your picture was a Salvation Army concertina.

Look again. It's a Crane duet.

[d.elliott]

I have never had chamios leather tear under these repair circumstances,....

I wouldn't expect you to have that problem, Dave. But not everyone is as good with their hands as you are. My suggestion is a way for someone -- especially a first-time "craftsman" -- to discover their level of competence without doing anything irreversible.

 

But some additional advice from you or Frank could be useful. What tool(s) do you use for lifting the lining? Fingers? Knife? Chisel? The answer may be obvious to you, but not necessarily to someone who hasn't done this kind of work before.

 

Imagine trying to arrange all the loose bits of all-sorts in the middle of a session after clearing a fouled reed????.

Could be difficult, I suppose, though once the "loose" leather has been pressed in place for a while by the reed pan, I find it's usually possible to remove and replace the pan without disturbing the leather. But in the 15 or so years between inserting the leather into the instrument in those photos and opening it to take the pictures, I never had to take out either reed pan for any reason. I really had forgotten what I'd done. Come to think of it, I don't recall ever having to open any instrument for adjustment or repair during a session. Maybe I'm just used to attending lint-free sessions? (I did once replace a spring for John Roberts during a concert. Good I had my portable repair kit and spares with me.)

 

In any case, I have proposed the "loose" solution only as a temporary measure. When it has become a long-term solution in my own instruments, it has been by accident... the accident of its effectiveness.

 

I suspect that you under-estimate other people's craft skills, or more worryingly, overestimate mine!

 

To lift the chamois bellows frame gasket, from the inside face, Frank says 'peel', and he is right, you can usually lift it just using fingers or just a flat bladed screwdriver to lever up any uncooperative parts. Occaisionally you will find packing from earlier days, even from the original manufacture.

 

The fact that you have had your 'tempoary' fix in place for so long tends to support the suggestion that a perminant solution would not have been detrimental.

 

My worst, dare I say 'on the fly' repair was the removal of the mascerated remains of a spider! One that had crawled into the fretting and then been sucked through a pad gap into a whirling reed. Shades of the early James Bond film where the bad chap goes into a snow blower on a ski slope.

 

Dave

[JimLucas]

I suspect that you under-estimate other people's craft skills, or more worryingly, overestimate mine!

I don't think so. A certain amount of skill is common, but not guaranteed. Some people's craft skills cannot be under-estimated, even though they may be very skilled in other ways, e.g., as musicians. And they're often precisely the ones who are likely to make matters even worse by trying to correct inadvertent harm of their own making. I'm just suggesting that a person shouldn't try to do something irreversible before first identifying their own skill level.

 

To lift the chamois bellows frame gasket, from the inside face, Frank says 'peel', and he is right, you can usually lift it just using fingers or just a flat bladed screwdriver to lever up any uncooperative parts.

I've worked on concertinas where the chamois leather was so weak in comparison to the glue that I had to exercise great care to avoid tearing the leather. It certainly didn't "peel" readily. It was more like a millimeter-by-millimeter job with the blade of a jeweler's screwdriver. Admittedly, these were older, lower grade instruments, but still vintage concertinas with no evidence of work on that lining since construction.

 

The fact that you have had your 'tempoary' fix in place for so long tends to support the suggestion that a perminant solution would not have been detrimental.

I never said it would have been detrimental. The "temporary" job was done because I was in a hurry, and I fully intended to complete it properly later, but it worked so well that the permanent job became a low priority until I forgot about it.

 

But as I said, my order of doing the permanent version has always been to first fit the card and or leather in the temporary manner, and only after I was sure of the fit -- from playing the instrument for a while -- would I peel up the lining and install the shims underneath. It sounds like you and Frank first peel and then fit. Different styles. The (dis?)advantage of mine is that stopping halfway through can leave a playable instrument.

 

My worst, dare I say 'on the fly' repair was the removal of the mascerated remains of a spider!

You dared!!

[Alan Miller]

Frank, Jim & Dave: Thanks to all of you for very informative and useful comments. I am very impressed with your participation as knowledgable experts on an issue that I suspect is of interest to many of us. Alan