lyndall Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 Dear Forum, I need some help and Henk van Aalten suggested someone out there may be able to give me some pointers on how to reposition the wooden support for the hand strap in order to get nearer to the air-button on my Stagi. I am about 1 to 1.5 cm out of reach even though I have long fingers and have had no luck with another suggestion from the forum about using a cat toothbrush (idea sounds good but I can't get a SOFT cat toothbrush anywhere in my area in Bavaria!).I know nothing about the mechanics and construction of a concertina (that is on my list of things to do) so he suggested that by moving the wooden support I can get closer. I have enough room and this also went through my head as a possible solution. If any one can help, please supply me with step by step instructions so I can venture into my first attempt at opening up and looking inside of my concertina ( scary stuff! I am a bit cautious and would not like to cause any damage). Most grateful for any assistance, Lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglogeezer Posted February 2, 2006 Share Posted February 2, 2006 I see that you asked for help on this problem before - soo, no solution then??!! As I said in my last answer to you, my problem was that the wooden support was too close to the buttons which placed the air button 2 cm in front of the support - quite a good position. I have had the supports moved away from the buttons and a 'U' shaped depression cut into the support where my thumb goes . Thus the air button is now 3 cm in front of the support, I can still reach it with my thumb and my fingers can now reach the G row comfortably. I am puzzled how your thumb can be 1.5 cm out of reach?? I think moving the support closer for your thumb will make it more difficult for your fingers. If you could post a picture the exact problem might be clearer to us. regards Jake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 If you could post a picture the exact problem might be clearer to us. Lyndall, I agree with Jake that a picture of your situation could help very much. I have a simple (maybe stupid) question: are you having your thumb outside the handstrap as can be seen on the picture below?? (I have linked to a picture of Boney) At least you could remove the right front-plate to see how the wooden support is attached. When it is screwed, you could carefully unscrew it and then try to find a new position for the wooden support. Mark the new position and drill new holes in the front-plate and screw the support to the frontplate. Do it carefully and maybe this instruction on opening a concertina is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 If you could post a picture the exact problem might be clearer to us. Lyndall, I agree with Jake that a picture of your situation could help very much. I have a simple (maybe stupid) question: are you having your thumb outside the handstrap as can be seen on the picture below?? (I have linked to a picture of Boney) At least you could remove the right front-plate to see how the wooden support is attached. When it is screwed, you could carefully unscrew it and then try to find a new position for the wooden support. Mark the new position and drill new holes in the front-plate and screw the support to the frontplate. Do it carefully and maybe this instruction on opening a concertina is helpful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 If you could post a picture the exact problem might be clearer to us. Lyndall, I agree with Jake that a picture of your situation could help very much. I have a simple (maybe stupid) question: are you having your thumb outside the handstrap as can be seen on the picture below?? (I have linked to a picture of Boney) At least you could remove the right front-plate to see how the wooden support is attached. When it is screwed, you could carefully unscrew it and then try to find a new position for the wooden support. Mark the new position and drill new holes in the front-plate and screw the support to the frontplate. Do it carefully and maybe this instruction on opening a concertina is helpful. Dear Henk, yes a picture would be very helpful but I don't know how to do that.I have to wait for some help but will post one as soon as possible. I have my thumbs outside of the leather strap as shown on your photo. I have also looked at your link about opening up a concertina and feel that I can manage that. I have enough room to move the wooden support 1 cm closer to the air button before I hit an area where there are some decorative carved openings.Ideally I would like to move it 1.5cm. That is where I get a bit concerned. Does it matter that after repositioning the wooden supports if the old holes are open? Do they need to be closed up? Can I reposition the wooden support over any of the existing carved openings? Will this affect the sound of the instrument ? These are just a few of the things going through my head. But as I said I will get help with the photo and perhaps that will aid with any further suggestions. Kind regards landall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 As you can see my thumb is a long way from the air button. The comfortable spot would be at the green marker. I need to be ideally 1.5 cm closer. Lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 9, 2006 Author Share Posted February 9, 2006 Another image. I hope that this is clear for you. Lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anglogeezer Posted February 9, 2006 Share Posted February 9, 2006 Another image. I hope that this is clear for you. Lyndall Hi, Lyndall. Yes I see the problem clearly now. A picture shows more than a thousand words!! All your buttons seem to be set further to the front of the concertina which seems to be the way Stagi make that model, see http://www.hobgoblin.com/itempics/gr4708.jpg - for example. Other concertinas seem to have the first row of buttons closer to a line drawn between the two fixing screws. So - how to move the support? Most concertinas I have looked inside have had metal ends and the wooden support is fitted thru the end plate by two square posts that are fixed to the reed pan by screws. This then takes the strain of the pushing and pulling. If this is the case with yours then, you could make new holes for the posts as required but the problem may be - is there space on the reed pan for them to locate?? I assume from the position of the buttons that the valve levers reach back towards the centre? Have you got enough room where the valves operate to re-locate the posts and then screw them thru from the opposite side?? - without interfering with the valves?? If there are NO posts and the support is screwed directly thru the end plate then that is simpler. Just relocate where you need to. However because you say it would be over the existing fretwork that will result a reduction of strength with regard to the pushing and pulling that goes on andI would install a batten behind the support and screw thru that. You may of course be left with marks in the lacquer after moving the support. How about making completely new end plates?? The answer to all these imponderables will only be found if you follow Henk's advice and have a look inside. His link to opening a concertina is very useful. Jake R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Another image. I hope that this is clear for you. Lyndall Hi, Lyndall. Yes I see the problem clearly now. A picture shows more than a thousand words!! All your buttons seem to be set further to the front of the concertina which seems to be the way Stagi make that model, see http://www.hobgoblin.com/itempics/gr4708.jpg - for example. Other concertinas seem to have the first row of buttons closer to a line drawn between the two fixing screws. So - how to move the support? Most concertinas I have looked inside have had metal ends and the wooden support is fitted thru the end plate by two square posts that are fixed to the reed pan by screws. This then takes the strain of the pushing and pulling. If this is the case with yours then, you could make new holes for the posts as required but the problem may be - is there space on the reed pan for them to locate?? I assume from the position of the buttons that the valve levers reach back towards the centre? Have you got enough room where the valves operate to re-locate the posts and then screw them thru from the opposite side?? - without interfering with the valves?? If there are NO posts and the support is screwed directly thru the end plate then that is simpler. Just relocate where you need to. However because you say it would be over the existing fretwork that will result a reduction of strength with regard to the pushing and pulling that goes on andI would install a batten behind the support and screw thru that. You may of course be left with marks in the lacquer after moving the support. How about making completely new end plates?? The answer to all these imponderables will only be found if you follow Henk's advice and have a look inside. His link to opening a concertina is very useful. Jake R Dear Jake, thanks for helping me further with my problem. Looks like I will have to tackle this on the weekend and open up (for the very first time) a concertina. I have looked at Henk's page and that was very helpful and have also had a conversation with a concertina workshop here in Southern Germany and I feel that it should be possible to relocate where I need to. So will let you know when I am finished. Wish me luck. Thanks again for the advice, lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henk van Aalten Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 I have looked at Henk's page and that was very helpful and have also had a conversation with a concertina workshop here in Southern Germany and I feel that it should be possible to relocate where I need to.So will let you know when I am finished. Wish me luck. Thanks again for the advice, lyndall Lyndall, I wish you luck. Take care in finding the right position. It maybe very well for you thumb, but the bottom-row (G) must be easily playable without overbending your fingers. Looking at the photos I must say that your thumb is rather short in comparison with your fingers. Take care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Lyndall, What about manufacturing a hinged plate/lever that can be screwed to the end-plate and forward of the button, long enough to pass over the button to reach the thumb? Copper is easy to work and you could cut a piece form a bit of copper pipe. If you need to soften the copper to make it more workable, heat it up with a blowlamp or over the gas stove and quickly lower into a cold water. Just a thought, probably OTT though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 I have looked at Henk's page and that was very helpful and have also had a conversation with a concertina workshop here in Southern Germany and I feel that it should be possible to relocate where I need to.So will let you know when I am finished. Wish me luck. Thanks again for the advice, lyndall Lyndall, I wish you luck. Take care in finding the right position. It maybe very well for you thumb, but the bottom-row (G) must be easily playable without overbending your fingers. Looking at the photos I must say that your thumb is rather short in comparison with your fingers. Take care Dear Henk, my hands look normal but there you go my thumb must be short! My daughter who came to the rescue yesterday and helped me with the photos can reach the air button and she is only 14. But short thumb or not I will need to get closer to the air button. One thing I must ask is what do I do about the old holes that will be visible? Do I need to close them up or can they be left open? I have made a note to be aware of the G Row and to ensure that I can play the keys without curling up my fingers too much. It could be that the concertina is generally too big for my hands although I have been told that the Stagi is of normal size. If my playing continues to improve and I still enjoy myself it may be sensible in the future to look around for a concertina that is manufactured especially for small hands. I believe that there are such things out there in concertina cosmos. Kind regards, lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 Lyndall, What about manufacturing a hinged plate/lever that can be screwed to the end-plate and forward of the button, long enough to pass over the button to reach the thumb? Copper is easy to work and you could cut a piece form a bit of copper pipe. If you need to soften the copper to make it more workable, heat it up with a blowlamp or over the gas stove and quickly lower into a cold water. Just a thought, probably OTT though. Dear Tony, my husband also suggested something similar to what you have mentioned.His ideas was to use a key from a flute (or eventually manufacture one himself out of metal) and use some sort of cold curing dental acrylic to attatch it to the existing air-button. He thought this sort of 'extension' could be removed easily if needed. It is another 'idea' , something to keep in the back of my head although you may be right in that it is a bit OTT. greetings lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 10, 2006 Author Share Posted February 10, 2006 I have looked at Henk's page and that was very helpful and have also had a conversation with a concertina workshop here in Southern Germany and I feel that it should be possible to relocate where I need to.So will let you know when I am finished. Wish me luck. Thanks again for the advice, lyndall Lyndall, I wish you luck. Take care in finding the right position. It maybe very well for you thumb, but the bottom-row (G) must be easily playable without overbending your fingers. Looking at the photos I must say that your thumb is rather short in comparison with your fingers. Take care Dear Henk, my hands look normal but there you go my thumb must be short! My daughter who came to the rescue yesterday and helped me with the photos can reach the air button and she is only 14. But short thumb or not I will need to get closer to the air button. One thing I must ask is what do I do about the old holes that will be visible? Do I need to close them up or can they be left open? I have made a note to be aware of the G Row and to ensure that I can play the keys without curling up my fingers too much. It could be that the concertina is generally too big for my hands although I have been told that the Stagi is of normal size. If my playing continues to improve and I still enjoy myself it may be sensible in the future to look around for a concertina that is manufactured especially for small hands. I believe that there are such things out there in concertina cosmos. Kind regards, lyndall Sorry, but I did want to also ask if I should move the wooden supprt on the left side to balance things out? I actually don't have any problems there but will that make a difference when playing regarding the push and pull?(I really need to learn more about the mechanics of a concertina!!!). Lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boney Posted February 10, 2006 Share Posted February 10, 2006 Looking at the picture, it seems to me you wouldn't want the bottom row any closer to your hand. I'd be wary of moving the palm rest. Some sort of lever that would pass over the air button and help you reach it seems a much better idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 If you are able to get as far as taking the end off, then have a look at the air button lever. You might work out a way of extending the lever inside the concertina, and making a new hole for the air button in a convenient place for your thumb. There could be less disturbance to the rest of the instrument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 If you are able to get as far as taking the end off, then have a look at the air button lever. You might work out a way of extending the lever inside the concertina, and making a new hole for the air button in a convenient place for your thumb. There could be less disturbance to the rest of the instrument. Yes. In fact, in your pictures it looks to me as if the air button is not so much too far "forward", but too far to the side. But moving the hand rest sideways would make it difficult to reach the "higher" buttons. Moving -- or extending -- the air button seems to me a much better solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyndall Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Looking at the picture, it seems to me you wouldn't want the bottom row any closer to your hand. I'd be wary of moving the palm rest. Some sort of lever that would pass over the air button and help you reach it seems a much better idea. Dear Boney, I am still considering different things that could solve this problem. I would like to know what sort of lever you had in mind. What are your ideas?How do you think it should be attatched? There are so many clever and inventive people out there I am interested in how others see this problem and what thoughts come into their minds about a possible alteration.Any suggestions very welcome. Lyndall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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