stella24 Posted October 26, 2005 Share Posted October 26, 2005 wondering if anyone has seen the presses and dies used by the established concertina manufacturers. did they use a fly press or a stamping machine? were the machines pneumatic or hand operated? there is a nice article on this site about reed and frame making by the Crabbs. of note was the smaller number of frame sizes used by them verses a large company like Lachenal, i assume more dies equal more cost, not only in more setup time but in actual making of the dies. i'd give anything to walk into the Wheatstone factory room! I'm currently rebuilding a nicer Lachenal and i believe i'm being overstimulated...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 They used (and some still use!) a fly press and dies, swager, and ream. The one in Steve Dickinson's (Wheatstone) shop is hand-operated (as I think they all were?). And *yes*, you can talk to SD. Just give him a call! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stella24 Posted October 27, 2005 Author Share Posted October 27, 2005 They used (and some still use!) a fly press and dies, swager, and ream. The one in Steve Dickinson's (Wheatstone) shop is hand-operated (as I think they all were?). And *yes*, you can talk to SD. Just give him a call! Thanks for the information, Richard. I may call him at some point. Another question I had was if Wheatstone reeds are currently screwed to the frame, or riveted. I read that at some point in time they were riveted as accordion reeds are. Reasons for the two styles would be interesting, (besides the ease of riveting). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted October 27, 2005 Share Posted October 27, 2005 AFAIK Steve has always used the strap-and-screws method of securing the reed tongues to the frames. The riveting method was a pretty short lived thing decades ago. I don't know why they made a few that way - possibly for cost savings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 ...s, swager, and ream. Hi, Richard - I've just realized that I've grown fond of learning words that have to do with tools - not screw driver-hammer-saw sort of tools, but tool and die. But "swager" is beyond me. And the New Oxford American Dictionary responds with a "No entries found". Can you enlighten me, please? /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 ...s, swager, and ream.Hi, Richard - I've just realized that I've grown fond of learning words that have to do with tools - not screw driver-hammer-saw sort of tools, but tool and die. But "swager" is beyond me. And the New Oxford American Dictionary responds with a "No entries found". Can you enlighten me, please? Well, http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=swage gives definitions for "swage" both as a noun and as a transitive verb. I think that "swager" as used by Rich may be a variant of the noun "swage", being something used to swage. Otherwise, I'd say that a "swager" is a person who uses a "swage" [noun] to "swage" [verb]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted October 29, 2005 Share Posted October 29, 2005 (edited) Right you are, Jim! Swaging is more of a process which one uses a shaped block (the swage or swageblock) to forcibly change the shape of your object. In the case of concertina reed frames, the vent is punched out with a punch/die combo and then swaged by pressing the pyramidal swageblock into the vent to give the vent sloped sides, and then to clean things up and make the top side of the reedplate accurate and crisp, the vent reamed. Edited October 30, 2005 by Richard Morse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henrik Müller Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 Right you are, Jim! Swaging is more of a process which one uses a shaped block (the swage or swageblock) to forcibly change the shape of your object. In the case of concertina reed frames, the vent is punched out with a punch/die combo and then swaged by pressing the pyramidal swageblock into the vent to give the vent sloped sides, and then to clean things up and make the top side of the reedplate accurate and crisp, the vent it reamed. Thanks, both! Information understood and permanently stored! /Henrik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttonon Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 ... and then to clean things up and make the top side of the reedplate accurate and crisp, the vent reamed. Hi Richard, It may be just a case of terminology, but instead of "reamed," could you have meant "broached?" If reaming is done with a circular cutter, I can't see how you can ream the inside of the vent and still maintain sharp corners, but I may be assuming a too restrictive meaning for this term. Physically, how is the inside of the vent finished? How does the tool cut? Best regards, Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Morse Posted October 30, 2005 Share Posted October 30, 2005 ... and then to clean things up and make the top side of the reedplate accurate and crisp, the vent reamed.It may be just a case of terminology, but instead of "reamed," could you have meant "broached?" If reaming is done with a circular cutter, I can't see how you can ream the inside of the vent and still maintain sharp corners, but I may be assuming a too restrictive meaning for this term. Physically, how is the inside of the vent finished? How does the tool cut?I guess I forgot broaching in the process which is aking to planing the top of the reedframe to make it perfectly flat and to get rid of the slight round-down by the punch. THEN *square* reamers are appled to make the vent entry extremely crisp and to exactly the size needed. Reamers are like extremely long slightly tapered files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffwright Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I thought swager was the way you walked when you knew what it meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo Posted October 31, 2005 Share Posted October 31, 2005 I thought swager was the way you walked when you knew what it meant. No that's swagger ! Swager is how you walk when you don't know what it means! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 (edited) The riveting method was a pretty short lived thing decades ago. I don't know why they made a few that way - possibly for cost savings? Wheatstone's first employed riveted reeds (with large-headed rivets) in some of the cheapest models built for them by Louis Lachenal in the 1850s, and they were again used (with small-headed rivets) by Edward Chidley snr. when he took over the firm's production in 1865, up until about 1890 (and very nice instruments they are too !). Some of the cheaper 1950's Wheatstone's even had reeds that were crimped onto the frames, and the frames screwed to the reed pans. Edited November 2, 2005 by Stephen Chambers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clive Thorne Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 The riveting method was a pretty short lived thing decades ago. I don't know why they made a few that way - possibly for cost savings? I imagine it would also save some weight, 60 - 80 straps and 120 - 160 screws must weigh a bit, but whether that was a reason why thy tried it? who knows? Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Edgley Posted November 2, 2005 Share Posted November 2, 2005 "Swager is how you walk when you don't know what it means!" I didn't know "he" made concertinas! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) Attempt Aborted. Edited November 4, 2005 by Geoffrey Crabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) I can make concertinas but these computers baffle me. I'll try again. Geoff. Edited November 4, 2005 by Geoffrey Crabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted November 4, 2005 Share Posted November 4, 2005 (edited) Third attempt, then I am off to bed. This may be of some use to understand the method commonly used for slotting reed frame blanks. It is based on earlier Crabb methods and from inspection of some Lachenal press tools that I possess was the same as used by them at sometime. The above has been prepared for inclusion in a book that I have been trying to write for the past two years at least and I would appreciate it not being reproduced or 'borrowed'. Thanks. Geoff. Edited November 4, 2005 by Geoffrey Crabb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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