Sharron Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 It's me again I have Jason O'Rourke's cd and quite fancy trying my hand at learning the breton tunes. He says that he is playing them on a Bb/F. Now I know I am going to come up against a fair amount of different tunings of concertina being used. How do I find out the original key signature so I can play it on my C/G? I can play it as it is on my C/G (not yet) but I would rather know what the notes would correspond to if played on the C/G rather than Bb/F, then find out if it is a session friendly key or not. If not, then I would have to move it up/down until it was. I suppose I need to find some way of having a layout of different buttons on different tunings, so i could see what note I would get on which button, so that I could work things out from there. I have only a basic knowledge of music theory, and I mean BASIC. So I need really simple explanations such as button layouts, etc. Or even how many steps I would need to move each concertina tuning until I get to my C/G. Then I could work out if it was a session friendly key or not and move accordingly. If you think you are confused with my ramblings, just think what state I am in Hope you can help. thanks Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbowers Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 My approach is to learn to sing the melody. It then becomes fairly easy (unless you're cursed with perfect pitch) to sing it in a key that's playable on your instrument (c,g or d). Basically, unless you're planning to join a session where the leader is playing a Bb/F, then their is no need to play in a difficult key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Hi Dave, I can't sing full stop. I play be ear mostly anyway. I just need to be able to get tunes into a sensible key for session playing. Odd flats here and there are no problem but more and ''you're on your own mate''. I have come across similar with fiddle tunings too, (strings tuned up/down) so have had that to sort out. Just didn't figure I would have to do it with the concertina. But well. Mary MacNamara has Shandon Bells on her cd and she is playing it on a D/G but uses C fingering. The key she is playing it in is lovely but wouldn't go down well in my session as they do it in the normal key. So I am asking how (if you don't know the tune) do you find the correct key if it is played in an ''obscure'' key on a differently tuned concertina? If I had drawings of layouts, etc. it would be easy to work out. But I can't find any. It is just too much hard slog to get too far into a tune to find out the key isn't 'playable' in a session. I have done it loads of times, so have tunes that stay in an unplayable key so rather than go re-learn them I will just go and find another. If you can find sheet music and plenty of it of the same tune then it's fine, but if not? well it has to be 'worked' out. Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbowers Posted October 23, 2003 Share Posted October 23, 2003 There's a neat free software package, FInale Notepad that will let you enter a tune from a sheetmusic copy (or, more slowly, from memory) and then simply request it to be trans posed into another key. Check it out: Finale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 23, 2003 Author Share Posted October 23, 2003 Thanks Dave. I actually have finale 2003 bought as a gift but I haven't had the courage to try it yet. As I said music theory is not a familiar language, so key signatures only mean to me #/b. If they are major/minor/dorian, etc. I haven't a clue. You really need to know what key you want to put it in and what it is in before you can use the features suggested. That's why I think it was bought so it would give me a shove in the direction of learning the why's and wherefor's. That is why I wanted to 'see' the layout so I could make my merry way transposing. I use the amzing slow downer to alter keys, etc. If I knew what key the tunes were in by listening it wouldn't be much of a problem to move them a notch or two. Sheet music is just a confirmation of how many #/b/accidentals are in a tune and so if they are on the recording, then I can go ahead and start learning the tune from the cd. It is just different tunings of concertinas being used to facilitate the key change that I want help with. Thanks again, Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 There must be someone on this site with Bb/F and D/G concertinas. Would it be possible to give me a rough idea of what notes are on what buttons so I can see where I am for transposing them onto my C/G. Thanks *hopefully* Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 First of all I would say that just because a certain player is using an F/Bb instrument doesn't mean to say that he/she is not playing in C or G (or D or whatever!). My favourite keys to play in on my C/G are D, G, A and C in that order (I think). Secondly I would say that the way to find out the "proper" key for a certain tune is to ask around or study recordings (the internet listings of recordings) ... I am learning up Princess Royal in F at the moment, though I have the strongest feeling that another key is more common ... Finally, I attach a crib sheet for C/G, Bb/F and G/D concertinas (20 buttons only, I have left out the "accidental" row as there are too many variations) which shows (I hope) which buttons play which notes on which instruments. I hope it is correct (but if not I expect Jim Lucas will let us know!!). Best wishes Samantha Keys_of_concertina.doc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Thanks Samantha that is exactly what I am looking for. I always check to make sure the key is a session friendly one, but sometimes there just is no info on the tune. They are played so many times in different keys but I have to think of our flute/whistle players as they can't go so low. I know they can transpose up or whatever, but who wants the bother if they have to play whole sections out of range, never mind learning a new tune. So this is great, I suspect a lot of players change boxes/concertinas without changing fingering to alter the key. Same as some fiddle players I could mention So now I can go figure out with your plans and get some more tunes learnt. Cheers Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 I have Jason O'Rourke's cd and quite fancy trying my hand at learning the breton tunes. He says that he is playing them on a Bb/F. Now I know I am going to come up against a fair amount of different tunings of concertina being used. How do I find out the original key signature so I can play it on my C/G? Sharron, I went through this with exactly the same tune, Breton Mazurka, after I fell in love with it at first listening. At this point I had owned a concertina for all of a month. And unfortunately I did not read the CD notes where it was explained he was using a Bf F, so assumed he was using a C/G. I found his first note by listening to the tune and then learnt it by ear on a C/G. I slowed it down to half speed to hear the intricacies. This meant I was playing the same notes but with very different buttons to Jason O'Rourke. I also could not differentiate his ornaments from the tune and learnt them as if they were part of it, something I am careful not to do now. I was certainly very impressed that he could play such a difficult tune so fast. When I finally read the notes I realised he would have been playing in a very different and potentially much easier key. Two years down the track I can keep up with him at full speed easily and I am glad I learnt it that way as it lead me to a facility with handy and interesting buttons. Of course, O'Rourke could probably play it in any key he liked, given his skills. My theory is inadequate to work out the key. Often if you select the last note of the tune it will give you the key, which in this case would be G, but it can't be G Major because it has three flats in it, Bf, Ef,Gf. The first key in my chart where all these notes occur together is Bf Minor or Df Major. I have wondered if it might be in G minor, which has Bf and Ef, with the Gf as an accidental. And just to show how little I know about this, what if they are sharps and not flats..? If you are playing by ear you don't need to know. To complicate matters I now play it on a G/D and have not changed the fingering, so that makes it probably D minor. You can see I don't play with others much..! I know I need to sit down and learn some theory, but I guess I am just the sort of person who eats the topping first. Incidentally, the second tune in the set is much easier. I could write the button order for a C/G out for you if you like, which would give you a possible fingering including bellows direction, but don't ask me for the time structure. You would need to tell me where your D# was. regs Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 (edited) Sorry, managed to add the last reply twice, can't find how to completely remove it but deleted the content... Chris Edited October 25, 2003 by Chris Ghent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Keaveney Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 Sharron, another pretty good pictorial of the C/G and the G/D keying can be found at this web page: http://www.pied-crow.com/angl_ndx.htm Unfortunately, it does not include the Bb/F at present, but I think it will help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 Thanks for the diagrams Bill, very useful. Chris, you like me have learned the hard way with learning tunes from cds without checking them out first I now know better, so this is why I posted the question as I also like *the cream* rather than the milk and would rather just jump in ang get on with it. Funny that, as I have also had the concertina about a month, give or take a week, and we still went for the same tune eh Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarussell Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hello, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquarussell Posted October 27, 2003 Share Posted October 27, 2003 Hello, I just found a transposing disc on eBay. Would that be useful? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...&category=47079 Russell Hedges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Thanks Russell I have some tranposing software, it was just the button layouts that I needed so I could find the *key* in other concertina tunings. I learn mainy by ear so just wanted the easy way out Thanks Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I was hoping some kind very music literate person might let us know what key Jason'O Rourke was actually playing Breton Mazurka in..? In hope... regs Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharron Posted October 28, 2003 Author Share Posted October 28, 2003 Chris, I think he has his email address on the cover somewhere. I have to go out now or else I may have asked him myself Let me know what his reply is Sharron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Ghent Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 (edited) His email address and site have not worked for some time... Chris Edited October 29, 2003 by Chris Ghent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now