A got-at Lachenal

[Richard Mellish]

I am very much in two minds whether to buy the 40 key G-D Lachenal that is currently on offer in the Buy & Sell section and would welcome any sage advice from the forum.

If someone on the American side of the Pond feels inclined to give this concertina a home I won't mind, but if there are no takers I am half inclined to add it to my collection. Potentially it could be a very good one, but it seems to have had an "interesting" life and to need a lot of work to undo some of the harm that has been perpetrated upon it (by person or persons unknown before it came to the present seller). See for instance this picture (which the seller has kindly sent me to supplement those in his original post):

 

Two reeds around the 4 o'clock position are clearly too long for their slots (and will have done some mischief to the inside of the end), and the adjacent two around the 5 o'clock position are too short. This is consistent with the discussion on the original thread about many notes having been moved around from their normal positions.

 

Also some reeds look a little rusty whereas others look bright, suggesting possibly a lot of rubbing-down in the course of retuning.

 

Some of the clamping screws have badly chewed-up heads. Why on earth should those have ever been disturbed since the day it was made?

 

And then there are the two reeds near the middle, with the reed frames held in place by screws at both ends. It seems unlikely that those notes were added after the instrument was first made, but is that method of fixing known from other Lachenals?

 

I eagerly await any words of wisdom.

 

[Kevin Ryann]

I think you should buy it!😁🤣

[d.elliott]

The surface mounting of reeds is far from unusual on Lachenal instruments. Although more often seen on big reed instruments (Bass & Baritones) as well as these inboard reeds. Looking at the fretting picture, the added reed positions were part of the original build. As to the two over-long reeds what note positions do they relate to? If they sound as the normal fingering would dictate then they may just be replacement reeds. 

 

Or is it a converted Jeffries Duet???

[Richard Mellish]

21 hours ago, d.elliott said:

The surface mounting of reeds is far from unusual on Lachenal instruments. Although more often seen on big reed instruments (Bass & Baritones) as well as these inboard reeds. Looking at the fretting picture, the added reed positions were part of the original build. As to the two over-long reeds what note positions do they relate to? If they sound as the normal fingering would dictate then they may just be replacement reeds. 

 

Or is it a converted Jeffries Duet???

Thanks for the confirmation about the mounting of the inboard (good word!) reeds. The positions of the buttons are exactly as on a normal Wheatstone 40-key box, so there's no doubt that it started life thus. But the note charts worked out by the seller show that many notes are different. I haven't actually counted how many there are of each note, but it appears that at least some of the changes, possibly all of them, were achieved by moving reeds from their normal positions to new positions, where some of them don't fit, as seen in the picture that I posted in this thread.

 

Without pictures showing the action I can't tell which reed positions should be which, and the markings of the original pitches (which may or may not have been changed) are hard to read.

 

I suppose what I am looking for in this thread is any words of wisdom as to how much work (at how much cost) might be needed to bring this concertina back into top condition and just how good it can become. None of the pictures show the action, but the valves look fairly new and the pads may also be new. So it may not need much more than moving all the reeds back to their correct positions, re-tuning, and sorting out odd bits of damage to the chamois(?) seals.

[d.elliott]

Because Anglos come in different Keys, and have odd and non-standard notes on some keys I find it helpful to chart pad holes to keys, and then chambers to pad holes. I always start with the inner complete row as 1, any odd extra keys nearer the palm rest as 0, Second complete row as 2, and the accidental row as 3. The first key in each row (thumb end)  that is not an extra key is 1, then count down to 5, 6 or what ever. This way you can plot the notes from a meter against a key. You can pencil the key reference on the underside of the pad board, and then identify the reed pan chamber to the pad position. I would pencil 3-5 for the fifth key down from the thumb end of the third row. Also saves a lot of time when tuning too. Extra notes neared to the thumb end than no.1 are again 0. so 2-0 would be the second row extra key at the top position, 1-6 would be an extra key tagged onto the end of of row 1. Left hand Drone key I designate as 'D'. By charting the Key locations you can then map out the notes as played push and pull. To be able to identify the concertina keying, note switches etc. etc. 

[Richard Mellish]

I have decided to give this concertina a home. I will aim to report further once it has arrived and I have made further investigations of the reed swaps.

[Richard Mellish]

This concertina arrived a few days ago. I can now report that it has been more drastically "got-at" even than was apparent from the pictures.

 

One modification that should have been apparent from the seller's pictures was that the handles had been moved away from the buttons. That isn't too critical.

 

One surprise was that the screws holding the ends on are not the expected kind, threaded only near their ends, but standard 6BA screws. Did Lachenal use those? If not, it suggests that whoever worked on this concertina must have been UK based, even though it was most recently in the USA.

 

Anyway there is a much more serious issue. Besides about a third of the notes not being what would be expected on a Wheatstone-layout G-D, hardly any of them correspond to the notes stamped on the reed frames (where those are legible). Someone has retuned the reeds by drastic amounts. It was already apparent from the pictures that some of the reeds are too long or too short for their slots. Now that I have access to the inner sides of the reed pans it is apparent that some of the push reeds are very much shorter than their slots, so they cannot be those originally present. Perhaps whoever worked on this concertina decided that the original reeds were too rusty or otherwise damaged to be retained, but then replaced them by whatever they could scavenge from elsewhere without bothering about the correct pitches.

 

I am dubious whether reeds that have been tuned far away from their original pitches deserve to be kept, even where their present pitches are correct for a Wheatstone-layout G-D. Anyway further retuning of those that are neither at their original pitches nor at the correct pitches would seem a step too far. I am therefore looking at replacement of many reeds, possibly all of them.

 

 

[RAc]

Bummer... are the reeds truly tetuned (ie can you spot solder flecks and/or file scratches) or are they "simply swapped?"

[Theo]

41 minutes ago, Richard Mellish said:

Anyway further retuning of those that are neither at their original pitches nor at the correct pitches would seem a step too far. I am therefore looking at replacement of many reeds, possibly all of them.

Don't be too hasty to discard reeds.  The originals in that instrument will be some of Lachenals best quality.  Replacing them with easily available reeds may not be an improvement.  Looking at the picture the filing seems to have been done carefully, so only reject reeds after they have proven themselves to play poorly.

[Richard Mellish]

I agree that the original reeds would have been good ones. My concerns are that many of those now present can hardly be original, and that even if some are original they are not at their original pitches. I put the ends back on before I thought to photograph the insides of the reed pans but I will take one or two.

 

Edit: picture now attached. Note many reeds much shorter than their slots and shiny at both ends from retuning.

Edited February 17 by Richard Mellish
Added picture

[Theo]

It's quite normal for some reeds to be shorter than their slots.  These reeds all look perfectly usable, though of course I can't tell from a photo if the reddens have been filed excessively.  The amount of filing doesn't look excessive.  How do the reeds respond?  That is the important question.  I think you may be being overly pessimistic.

 

Edited February 17 by Theo