gunmanbob Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Hi there, I recently downloaded a tuner app to see what key my Scholer 20 key was in and start the tuning process. I was under the impression that it was a common C/G key but have seem to discover that it does not sound anywhere near that. I think that it may just be so old that it orignaly was a C/G or a D/A but I then discovered that another post mentioned their Scholer 20 key being in B♭/F. I am wondering if I should try and tune it into C/G or figure out how to tune it to a B♭/F if that is even a thing. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON GABRIELOW Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 They came in all kinds of different key ranges. Ii had one made in GDR back in the 1980s and it was in C and G. But I used to have a chart that came with it, and it showed a variety of other key tones ( sone very surprising). I no longer have that printed chart, but perhaps you could just accept it in its key range and save a lot of time in tuning it? The music you would play from ( if you read from sheet music) will just sound in a different tonal range to that printed but will still work. Only my own thoughts; others may have different views🌝 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted September 24, 2023 Share Posted September 24, 2023 Bb/ F was, if not common, then not too unusual a key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmanbob Posted September 24, 2023 Author Share Posted September 24, 2023 Sounds good! I am trying to find a fingering chart for it so I can see if the other reeds are in tune or not. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmanbob Posted September 24, 2023 Author Share Posted September 24, 2023 After a bit of searching I was able to find this middle row for a 30 key layout that matches the bottom row of my 20 key layout. I am unable to find the matching key for the top row however. If there is a way that 20 keys are set up so that I can create an accurate fingering chart please let me know. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crimson Avenger Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, gunmanbob said: After a bit of searching I was able to find this middle row for a 30 key layout that matches the bottom row of my 20 key layout. I am unable to find the matching key for the top row however. If there is a way that 20 keys are set up so that I can create an accurate fingering chart please let me know. Thanks! I think that may be an excerpt from the layout diagram of my 30-button Bb/F which I posted in 2020? You have shown only the Bb-row (or 'home' row, using my terminology). Are you saying that the F-row on that diagram differs from the one on your instrument? I ask because if that is the case, I need to check the accuracy of my diagram. Perhaps you could post the details of the notes on the F-row of your instrument (I need to recreate the diagram in any case - I lost the original!!!!)? Thanks. FWIW, that diagram was created using Prof. MacCanns Keyboard Designer. This is a useful piece of software for crating layout and fingering diagrams... Edited September 25, 2023 by The Crimson Avenger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmanbob Posted September 25, 2023 Author Share Posted September 25, 2023 I believe it is! I will use the program you have suggested and make my own fingering diagram and post it here when I am finished. I also think that the F row differs slightly but it might just be due to the instrument, from what I have heard Scholers do not have a great reputation and I bought this used at a garage sale and have been trying to get a lot of the reeds to voice better. Is there a way that concertinas are typically set up as in is there a "normal" jump between each key? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, gunmanbob said: I believe it is! I will use the program you have suggested and make my own fingering diagram and post it here when I am finished. I also think that the F row differs slightly but it might just be due to the instrument, from what I have heard Scholers do not have a great reputation and I bought this used at a garage sale and have been trying to get a lot of the reeds to voice better. Is there a way that concertinas are typically set up as in is there a "normal" jump between each key? Thanks! A couple of points: Yes, there is a 'normal' jump between each key. In a G/D concertina, the D-row is a perfect fifth above the G-row. In a C/G concertina, the G-row is a perfect fifth above the C-row. I think I got that right - these fifths, fourths and thirds do my head in. That's for the common configurations of G/D, C/G, etc. - there are 'one-off' key configurations which may differ from that. I used that McCann keyboard designer recently to create a button numbering diagram for a system proposed by a user here. The program seems suited to doing two things (as far as Anglos are concerned): creating note layout diagrams (ie: where the notes are) creating button numbering (or fingering) diagrams for different systems, (eg: ABT, Coover, Sherburne, etc.) The program is a bit fiddly to use, but is fine once you get your eye in The data files (.mck extension) are in fact simple text files. If you open a file using your favourite text editor, it is possible to edit the file 'by hand' - again, once you get your eye in... Edited September 25, 2023 by lachenal74693 Edit: changed fourth to fifth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIMON GABRIELOW Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 With patience and a bit of time you can transpose music into a key to suit other instrument ranges. But it can be a test of patience to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 Anglo Tune Chart 30 lach Bb-F .pdf This is my tuning chart for Bb/F Anglo, it might help Anglo Tune Chart 30 lach Bb-F .pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmanbob Posted September 25, 2023 Author Share Posted September 25, 2023 This is the fingering layout that I was able to create with a tuner and the suggested program. As you might notice there are a few N/As where the reed could not voice enough for the tuner to pick up. I am planning on going through and fixing these over the next week but it will take a little time. Please let me know if any patterns jump out to you or if this looks similar to something you've seen. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Velleman Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 This looks like an Eb/Bb Anglo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leah Velleman Posted September 25, 2023 Share Posted September 25, 2023 The top row is in Eb, and the missing notes should be Eb5 (index finger), Ab5/Bb5 (ring finger), and Eb6 (little finger). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, Leah Velleman said: This looks like an Eb/Bb Anglo. Yep, that looks right. Interesting - there are no known examples cited in this article from a long time ago. ____________________ gunmanbob - thanks for the up-to-date diagram. I missed the point that you were matching the middle row of that diagram to the bottom row of your instrument! At least I don't have to update my Bb/F layout diagram... Edited September 26, 2023 by lachenal74693 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmanbob Posted September 26, 2023 Author Share Posted September 26, 2023 Interesting, if anyone has any questions about it let me know and I will answer them the best I can! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Hare Posted September 26, 2023 Share Posted September 26, 2023 (edited) On 9/26/2023 at 5:44 AM, gunmanbob said: Interesting, if anyone has any questions about it let me know and I will answer them the best I can! I was just about to update my recent post with: There is a series of YouTube video clips about Scholers starting here. As far as I can see, Bb/Eb isn't mentioned in this series, but they may help... Edited September 27, 2023 by Roger Hare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted September 28, 2023 Share Posted September 28, 2023 Bit late to this topic but you may find the attached relevant. 20 Anglo Crabb Typical EbBb.doc It is possible that vintage UK made Eb/Bb were supplied to the Salvation Army as some years ago, I acquired a wood ended, 26 bone button Ab/Bb Anglo, stamped on the end with the SA (blood & fire) logo and fitted with a music clip. Geoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunmanbob Posted September 29, 2023 Author Share Posted September 29, 2023 Hi Geoffery, thank you for sharing this awesome document! This looks like it is the exact fingering chart I was looking for. It also looks like only a few of my reeds are a bit out of tune in this case. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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