The "english" Style Of Anglo Playing

[PeterT]

1) What actually constitutes English style or the English approach to playing the anglo?

 

2) What is its source or sources?

Having had a few months to think about this one, and having just scanned some of the responses, my thoughts are as follows:

 

Whereas there is a recognisable "Irish" style (or close variants to a style), I think that it would be more accurate to discuss English styles. When I was asked to run my first West Country Concertina Association workshop, at Sidmouth 1986, I had detected that most Anglo players seemed to use the instrument differently, so wanted to explore this in the workshop. The were seven of us in total, including Howard Jones, John Kirkpatrick, Martin Nail and Brian Peters; seven players, six distinct styles (Howard and John playing in the same style).

 

So, how come we used the "same" instrument in such different ways, whilst playing the "same" type of music (i.e. mainly English in origin)?

 

I guess that whereas "Irish" style has been successfully taught, in classes, for many years, those of us who play in the "English" styles have either learned, in isolation (like myself), or have come to Anglo from Melodeon, or other melody instruments.

 

I'd heard Anglo on radio, and on records, and really liked the sound. The first time that I went to Croydon Folk Song Club (1979), Mick Tems was there with Pat Smith; both playing Anglos. This convinced me.

 

It was a couple of years until I "captured" one, and by early 1982 I had my current Wheatstone C/G, but could not play it. At Chippenham Festival, the late John Gasson asked whether he could borrow it to play some tunes (I'll post separately why he was Anglo-less). He made one vital comment "play across the rows" (thanks, John). Circumstances dictated that six months later, I had to play for the Morris. So, I had to work out how to play the tunes on the instrument. Melody on the right hand, chords on the left, seemed to come almost naturally.

 

About 18 months later, I played a "floor spot" at Rainham (Kent) Folk Club. The late Glad Thorp was in the audience, and said to me afterwards "you obviously play for dancing". So, I guess that I was doing something right.

 

 

Since they, I have learned to play a whole variety of tunes, but I have brought those tunes into my repertoire in my style of playing. Yes, the style has evolved, and will continue to evolve, but I never had the intention to model my style of that of anyone else. My style can only be described as "English", but is that because I am English, or because my sub-consious has absorbed English songs and tunes, and that's what comes out in my playing?

 

Regards,

Peter.

[JimLucas]

Whereas there is a recognisable "Irish" style (or close variants to a style), I think that it would be more accurate to discuss English styles.

I've been claiming "since day one" that there's not just one "English" style, but many.

 

So, how come we used the "same" instrument in such different ways, whilst playing the "same" type of music (i.e. mainly English in origin)?

Ignoring for the moment "learning in isolation", there are simply many more ways to play more than one note at a time than to play "only the melody".

 

E.g., take chords: Even without different choices of which chords to play, one could play

... a sustained full chord

... bass note, followed separately by the rest of the chord

... notes of the chord one at time, as an arpeggio

... each of the above with some different inversion of the chord

... switching among two or more of the above techniques within a single phrase

 

But there's only one way to play no accompanying chords.

 

A similar case could be made for "parallel" harmony lines:

... parallel octaves

... parallel thirds

... parallel sixths ("inverted" parallel thirds)

... parallel fifths (rarely used for long stretches)

... parallel fourths ("inverted" fifths)

(parallel 2nds and 7ths are generally considered dissonant)

... variations on switching among these within a phrase

 

But there's only one way to not play a harmony line.

 

I guess that whereas "Irish" style has been successfully taught, in classes, for many years, those of us who play in the "English" styles have either learned, in isolation (like myself), or have come to Anglo from Melodeon, or other melody instruments.

I don't know what fraction of "English style" anglo players are entirely self taught, but I do know that quite a few have attended courses and workshops, and I suspect a number more have learned from players they knew locally (e.g., someone on the same Morris team).

 

BUT... the same is true of the "Irish-style" players. From the posts here on C.net I have learned that many have learned "on their own", purely from listening to tunes, or just trying to play tunes they already know on another instrument. Even many who attend workshops have already been playing on their own for some time before attending a workshop. And just like "English style", the teachers don't all sound exactly alike. If you think that there's only one "Irish style", then I think maybe you're not sensitive to the differences. Could that be because you don't listen to Irish players as much as English? And maybe the reason some folks think there's only one "English style" is because they don't have enough experience listening to that genre (those genres).

 

There have been numerous discussions here on C.net of the differences in style among even the well known Irish who give workshops, classes, and personal lessons. Mary McNamara, Noel Hill, Tim Collins, Niall Vallely, Frank Edgley, and more... each has their own distinct style. Some folks from the "English" side may consider those to be more subtle than the differences among Andy Turner, John Kirkpatrick, and Harry Scurfield, etc., but I suspect that many Irish players would think the opposite.

 

The "Irish" variables are different in kind, but they are there. They are ornamentation, rather than accompaniment:

... cuts, rolls, and other grace notes

... sparse use of chords and harmonies

... use of bellows reversals (alternate fingerings) to control phrasing

But how often each person uses each or any of those -- and where, and how -- is different for each individual.

 

Eventually, every player will to some extent develop his/her own style. You could learn to play exactly note-for-note every tune on CD's by either Noel Hill or John Kirkpatrick, and still not be guaranteed of playing a tune you've never heard them play exactly the way they do.

 

I think that's fine. I think it's both inevitable and desirable. So I'll maintain that there are many "English styles" but also continuous gradations among them, that the same is true of "Irish styles, and I suspect that if we knew enough about "squashbox" concertina we would find the same there. (Theodore K., do I recall rightly that you mentioned something similar among Chemnitzer players?) Long live the differences!

 

P.S. I believe that Scan Tester and Will Duke demonstrate that there can also be gradations between "Irish" and "English" styles. They're definitely English, but I wonder if many people not already aware of their styles -- yet familiar with the "English" vs. "Irish" distinction -- wouldn't be inclined to class them as "Irish" because they don't use chordal accompaniment? (That's a question. I don't know the answer. But I suspect.)

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: some of the discussion is quite interesting (and i'd love to see someone wrap things up and submit an essay to PICA, open-ended though it probably has to be). . . .i also respond with some trepidation for i'm an american player of the english as opposed to an english player of the anglo. . . . . .but just a word about "methodology". . . . .

 

as he usually is, dan is on the mark when noting that prior to kimber's recordings (and see below), those dots in the tutors constitute the only evidence for what was going on. . . . . .the question, though: to what extent does that evidence reflect musical "reality". . . .to be sure the question might be unanswerable. . . .but i really do wonder to what extent, say, Regondi's NEW METHOD, with its many very difficult exercises, reflects what most english players of the english of the day were doing. . . . maybe it does (in which case the level of playing must have been extremely high) . . . but maybe it doesn't. . . . . . .yet in the end, we must look towards those dots, since without them we have nothing. . . . . .

 

just for the fun of it, someone might take a glance at the repertory played by the teenage anglo player who's interviewed in Mayhew (see PICA, vol. 1). . . .what was he playing. . . . .though we can't know what he sounded like, he does refer to the music that he played. . . .what light might his repertory shed on the question. . . . .note also that he played together with other musicians. . . .with his fiddle-playing brother. . . .and, apparently, with fiddle and harp. . . . .also, if i remember correctly, he sometimes played with a piccolo player. . . . .how does this participation in an ensemble effect the way in which he might have played. . . . . . .the way in which he might have used the instrument

 

finally: despite Mr. W's having duly taken note of Mr. D's very gentle rebuke concerning Mr. A's remarks about the playing of one Mr. K, Mr. A will stick to his opinion (and obviously it's nothing more than that). . . . .

 

Mr. A.

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: as i usually do, seems that i've managed to kill the discussion. . . . .maybe i should cross my hands when i type..........Mr. A.

[PeterT]

FOLKS: as i usually do, seems that i've managed to kill the discussion. . . . .maybe i should cross my hands when i type..........Mr. A.

No Alan,

 

We're still trying to work out the identity of everyone from Mr. A. to Mr. Z.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[JimLucas]

FOLKS: as i usually do, seems that i've managed to kill the discussion. . . .

After only 12 hours without a response? On a Sunday?

 

Allan, you flatter yourself with condemnation!

 

Give folks a little time to get home from church or the beach, finish mowing or watering the lawn, etc. I'm sure there will be responses, even if not today.

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: i really was only jesting. . . . . .wonder how difficult/easy it is to type with hands crossed. . . . or to play the concertina that way. . . . . .

 

ABOUT THE USE OF THE TUTORS AS EVIDENCE prior to the period for which there are recordings. . . . .it's always a tricky question. . . . .that some people were suggesting what they suggested obviously shows that some people were doing that. . . . .one question always is this: are the tutors reflecting established practice or are at least some of the tutors being a bit "revolutionary". . . . . .

 

ANOTHER QUESTION: just who read the tutors. . . . .for example, did Mayhew's teenage anglo player, who plied his trade on the boats along the Thames, read Minasi. . . . . the youngster went to school and was surely literate. . . . .yet he seems to suggest that he played entirely by ear. . . . .

 

STILL ANOTHER QUESTION: Mayhew's concertinist certainly does not play what is generally thought of (at least today) as "traditional music". . . . .just when did the concertina become associated with that repertory and the dancing that went along with it. . . . . . .

 

i certainly don't know the answers to any of these questions. . . . . . .

 

C'MON FOLKS: FAST RESPONSES

 

Mr. A. . . .and since i don't think Mr. W will mind: Mr. A = Allan Atlas, Mr. D = Roger Digby, Mr. K = William Kimber, Mr. W = Wes Williams.............

Edited July 9, 2006 by allan atlas

[PeterT]

ABOUT THE USE OF THE TUTORS AS EVIDENCE prior to the period for which there are recordings. . . . .it's always a tricky question. . . . .that some people were suggesting what they suggested obviously shows that some people were doing that. . . . .one question always is this: are the tutors reflecting established practice or are at least some of the tutors being a bit "revolutionary". . . . . .

Hi Alan,

 

I know that in the distant past, some Anglo players would have had a good understanding of music theory, and could play some advanced pieces on the Anglo. But I do wonder whether the pieces printed in the Anglo Tutors were those which the Author/Publisher knew where "current practice", or thought that they were ones to which the player should aspire. Are there contemporary accounts to clarify this?

 

In the last fifty years, the Anglo has been much more closely associated with traditional music. I have a copy of several of the tutorial books, but I can't say that I've learnt much, other than the keyboard layout, since I can't relate the music to the instrument. I suspect that 80+% of Anglo players will say likewise. However, it is customary for anyone buying an Anglo, at a festival, to be seen marching off with a copy of a tutor book.

 

Regards,

Peter.

[JimLucas]

FOLKS: i really was only jesting. . . . . .wonder how difficult/easy it is to type with hands crossed. . . . or to play the concertina that way. . . . . .

Well, let's just try it and see. Certainly not as fast as the regular way, but possible!

 

As for the concertina, I think you should try it. I just tried playing along with a folk song LP with my English "flipped" and was surprised ar how well it went. The anglo was less easy, but I'm not as good at that even the normal way around.

 

Mr. A. . . .and since i don't think Mr. W will mind: Mr. A = Allan Atlas, Mr. D = Roger Digby, Mr. K = William Kimber, Mr. W = Wes Williams.............

Not Mr. D = Alan Day, Mr. K = Jody Kruskal, Mr. W = Dan Worrall?

 

(Entire post typed with hands crossed on the keyboard. )

[allan atlas]

PETER: in a way, you're asking the same question i am: do the tutors reflect the old/established or introduce the new?. . . .again, there's no sure answer. . . .and the answer may well vary from one tutor to the other. . . .to be honest, i don't know the anglo tutors very well . . . .what repertory/ies do they "push". . . . .the tutors for the "english" are all over the place in that respect. . . . .everything from arrangements of classical music to waltzes and polkas to what must have been popular songs of the day. . . .they're also all over the place in terms of difficulty. . . .and often one and the same tutor will go from the most elementary things (teaching the user how to count in 4/4 time) to exercises that verge on the virtuosic. . . . . . .

 

i'm not at all sure that one can necessarily draw parallels between what goes on today and what went on in mid-victorian england. . . . . remember also that when the german concertina was first introduced to england in the middle of the century, it seems to have been associated very much with the urban "streets". . . and it was still so regarded by G.B. Shaw as late as 1889. . . .

 

in all, i think we'll make progress on this (and many another problem) by first asking the right questions, then trying to determine what evidence (if any) sheds light on the matter, and only then trying to formulate answers, with the realization that many of those will have to be speculative and tentative. . . . . .

 

but this entire discussion is a very nice start ................ allan

 

AND THANKS FOR THE FAST RESPONSE. . . .

[PeterT]

AND THANKS FOR THE FAST RESPONSE. . . .

Cheers. Off to find a tutor book, and practice (not related!)

 

Regards,

Peter.

[allan atlas]

and sometimes it's the other way around. . . . .the questions grow out of the evidence/data that's available. . . . .that was certainly the case in an article i've just completed: "Ladies in the Wheatstone Ledgers: The Gendered Concertina in Victorian England, 1835-1870," which will appear in ROYAL MUSICAL ASSOCIATION RESEARCH CHRONICLE, 39 (2006), pp. 1 - 234 (not a typo!). . . . .it will also be posted on concertina.com after all RMA members have received their copies..............

 

i hadn't even thought of the topic, much less asked any intelligent questions, until i began combing through the Wheatstone sales ledgers. . . . .then the questions popped out. . . . .some of which could and some of which could not be answered...............

 

on the topic that we're discussing: i think the first thing to do is for someone to go through the Anglo tutors in systematic fashion. . . .see what's there. . . . . .is there enough information to start asking answerable questions about what those earliest Anglo players played. . . . . .can we begin to say who would have used those tutors. . . . . .do the tutors themselves testify about their audience(s). . . . . .do repertories and audiences change over the course of the decades. . . . .say from Minasi to George Jones. . . . . .bear in mind also that Minasi and Jones may well belong to different traditions. . . .Jones, i take it, is concertina through-and-through. . . . .but didn't he first make his mark in the music halls? ? ?. . . . . Minasi is listed in the music directories of the period as Professor of Music, and published tutors for a number of instruments. . . . .he may well have been addressing a different audience. . . . . i don't know. . . . .

 

and finally (though not relevant): the English concertina was certainly known in mid-19th-century Ireland. . . . . the Wheatstone sales ledgers contain entries for the likes of the Abingers, Vandeleurs, Tolers (all members of the titled aristocracy) during the '40s and '50s. . . . .and Scates was selling Englishes there too. . . . so the situation in ireland was by no means one-sided with respect to the type of concertina used. . . . .

 

there will be a nice article on Anglo playing in Ireland by Gearóid O'hAllmhuráin in the next issue (vol. 3) of PICA, which should be out at some point in the Fall. . . . . .Mr. A.

[Dan Worrall]

Allan,

 

To go through all those tutors systematically as you suggest (which for an academic means a fully referenced work with i's dotted and t's crossed) would be a ton of work, and I'm not sure there would be much in it not already covered in the deep recesses of this useful thread last year, when we all learned a lot on this subject. The main fellow for this topic of early tutors is Randy Merris, who laboriously collected copies of them. I collected copies of his, thanks to his generosity, to add to my own. I'd guess I have about 30 or more dating from about 1844. What I think you can say is fairly straightforward; some of this is pure fact, and some is my inference.

 

But first, to state the obvious, most anglo players today, and very likely most in the past, don't learn from tutors. Tutor writers know that to sell tutors they have to market music which is relevant to folks who want to play the instrument. So tutors tend, I think, to reflect styles being currently played...or at least, the lowest common denominator of what is being played. The music of 'out there' brilliant masters will always be under-represented (i.e., the detailed playing style of folks like Noel Hill or Will Duke or John Kirkpatrick won't be captured other than as rudiments of a general style).

 

When this thread was started, the question was on the origin of the 'English' style of playing. I think we established that Chris meant the 'chords left, melody right' way of playing the instrument.....not any sort of national thing, nor was it intended that all players of English nationality would play in either a chorded style or any sort of completely homogenous way. I think it is best to say 'harmonic' style for 'chords left-melody right', tho an imperfect term...at least it gets the national culture thing out of the way. Some non-English play in a harmonic style, and not all English players play or would wish to be pigeonholed as playing in narrowly-defined 'English' style.

 

So, with that out of the way, what do the tutors, as well as any other old references tell us, about techniques and styles being attempted 'way back when? Here are some thoughts:

 

1) The origins of the English...oops! harmonic....style go back as far as the instrument....before it was an anglo, and when it was a humble two row German concertina (GC). The Germans started doing the oom-pah thing when they invented the GC, and it came to Britain (and everywhere else) with the earliest imports. That is all documented above as well as in the notes in concertina.com on the Hoeselbarth and Minasi tutors. Chording is instinctual on the anglo if you push down more that one note at a time; I think it is that simple. The street musician mentioned in the thread above that played on the steamboats in 1850's London, likely using German concertinas, seems to have made it clear for posterity that he was playing in a harmonic style when he said that the concertina 'was like having the fiddle and the harp together' (or something to that effect). That that style is reflected in the tutors doesn't mean that poor waif bought and read tutors...it just means that the tutors reflected at least in part how it was being played.

 

2) These early tutors mostly focused, however, on single row melodic playing. And the move to cross row playing, both to enable flowing passages as well as make chording easier, also goes back to the very beginning (George Jones' tutor is only one example). Likewise playing in parallel octaves. That too is (mostly) documented above. There is very little new under the sun in terms of raw technical approach....inventive minds got on with it from the start. And when the concertina faltered in popularity in the twentieth century, inventive minds re-invented these basic techniques, without refererring to tutors (Scan Tester's brother 'inventing' an octave style in isolation, for example, and Stack Ryan and Noel Hill and others developing (to a high degree) cross-row techniques in Ireland).

 

3) The nineteenth century tutors all include a complete mixture of popular melodies and songs of the day, dance music, and light classical music. There was a lot of experimentation going on (after all, the idea of pushing buttons for either melodies or even full chords, and using a bellows, on concertinas and accordions was completely new then...we take that for granted today), and people were searching out its potential. There is not a lot of high-brow classical....just some Verdi and Rossini sorts of popular melodies plucked from longer works. This all jives with Allan's observation and that of many others that it was mainly a street instrument. George Jones writes about his use of the GC in 1840's-1850's London music halls, too, and we can assume his tutor includes some of his favorites. An important observation is that there is a LOT of minstrel music in these tutors, both in England and the USA. Minstrel music was the rock and roll of its day...rowdy and irreverent, and a genuine popular phenomenon (common in the US, England and even on the Continent). I have uncovered some photographic material documenting anglo use in the minstrels, which will come out next year in PICA.

 

4) During the early twentieth century there was of course a general decline in use of the anglo (excluding well-known isolated pockets of continued use), as well as in publication of tutors. Those tutors available mostly showed a simple melodic along-the-row technique, and their authors stole music from nineteenth century tutors. The DeVille tutor is an example, as Randy has documented.

 

5) When the concertina 'revival' began in Britain in the nineteen seventies, the new tutors that emerged mostly dropped out the idea of generally popular tunes of the day as well as the light classical stuff, and mostly concentrated on 'traditional' dance music that had in earlier days just been included as 'dance music'. (Levy, Edgley, Williams, John K's notes, etc.) No current day minstrel-cum-rock and roll music is usually included (I have yet to see a popular rock band use an anglo, nor an anglo tutor include 'Light My Fire"!). The anglo re-emerged as a 'folk' instrument, and the new tutors accurately reflect this. This is the biggest single difference between nineteenth and twentieth- twenty first century use of the anglo.

 

I hope that scratches some of your itch Allan. That is my stream of consciousness, for what it is worth. I'm sure there are plenty of glitches in it, but the basics seem clear.

 

ps. On your comment on Minasi...he disdained the anglo/GC, and made it clear that the English concertina was the purer of the two for 'real' music (he wrote tutors for both). His compositions were mostly classical. He was indeed prolific, and after the early period of newness of the GC in the 1840's-1850's, seems to have published anglo tutors only to make money, as the unwashed masses seemed to prefer them. I can find some quotes that Randy first pointed out, if you'd like...or maybe Randy already published them.

[allan atlas]

DAN: i would not and cannot argue with a single thing you say. . . . . .you are far more informed about the Anglo and its tutors than i am. . . . . i really was speaking off the top of my head. . . . .just throwing out thoughts that occured to me without knowing the subject. . . . .Allan

[geoffwright]

maybe i should cross my hands when i type

Does anyone else cross-finger on a 3 row keyboard?

[David Barnert]

PETER: in a way, you're asking the same question i am: do the tutors reflect the old/established or introduce the new?

In the "Early Music" world, it's not unusual to see tutors interpreted like this: "If it says 'Don't play this way,' it's a pretty good bet that a lot of people were playing this way."

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: if i may make two points:

 

(1) as a footnote to Dave's observation: there is a very famous passage (to those who work on fifteenth-century music) in the treatise of Johannes Tinctoris. . . .after proscribing this, that, and the other contrapuntal motion, he goes on to point out that many of the very best composers use them. . . . .

 

(2) with respect to my note in which i mentioned the teenage Anglo player interviewed by Mayhew: Dan uses one of his statements to add support for the early use of the "harmonic" style of Anglo playing. . . .Dan states that the young fellow says something to the effect that the concertina sounds like a fiddle and a harp together. . . .but this is NOT what our player says. . . .what he says is this: "We [= he and his fiddle-playing brother] never hardly went out together in the streets and play together, only once or twice, because a fiddle and a concertina don't sound well together unless a harp's with it, and the it's beautiful.". . . . he is, then, talking about three instruments, not about the concertina sounding like more than one instrument. . . . at least that's how i read it...........

 

thus, while the teenage player says nothing that would contradict the use of "harmonic style," nothing that he says can be used to support it. . . . .Allan

Edited July 10, 2006 by allan atlas

[allan atlas]

FOLKS: to reconsider the statement at the end of my last blurb. . . . . .

 

i said that the teenage player says nothing that would contradict our imagining that he used a "harmonic" style of playing. . . .yet perhaps he does. . . . . he says that when he and his fiddler brother play together (that is, just the two of them), it doesn't sound that good. . . . .could that be because the overall musical texture was too thin???. . . . . .this being a result of his playing single-note melody only. . . . .things got better, however, when a harpist came along. . . . .was it the harpist's function to fill out the texture????. . . .i have no idea. . . . .

 

in the end, much of what we have in the way of evidence (for anything) is double-edged and admits of more than one interpretation. . . . . . . .still another reason constantly to go back to the SOURCES in order to have as much evidence as possible.............Allan