Lowering A Reed With Solder

[richard]

Hello

 

Is the use of solder a practical way to lower the pitch of a good quality reed with out doing permanent damage to the reed, and maintaining a good tone? This is a method that can be undone, true?

 

Also is there a propensity for reeds re pitched with solder to buzz?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[Greg Jowaisas]

There was a previous and informative discussion of the use of solder in this forum entitled: " Weights On Reed Tips, Going lower without going larger". Somewhere around page 10 of Repair and construction.

 

Greg J

[Mr. Bellows]

FYI, In North America, I've heard that Frank Edgely has a lot of experience using solder to repitch reeds; to lower a reed a semi tone, or a tone.

 

I know of someone who has a G/C wheatstone, but would like to have a G/D. I heard a well known concertina player/instructor, who visits the USA every summer, tell this person use the solder method to repitch his C-row to a D-row.

 

Richard, you may want to ask this "well known concertina player/instructor" about this when you take his course in August. I am pretty sure that he is a proponent of using solder.

 

What is attractive about using solder is that the reed can be returned to its original state simply by removing the solder. So, if you have an experienced repairer add solder and the reed buzzes, you can remove the solder and try again without harming the reed. If you have a G/C concertina repitched to a G/D using solder, with very little work you can restore it to a G/C at a later date. On the other hand, if you file a reed to repitch it, you will never be able to restore the metal that you file off.

[JimLucas]

Is the use of solder a practical way to lower the pitch of a good quality reed with out doing permanent damage to the reed, and maintaining a good tone?

Can be done. Can also be botched. Aside from the possibility of too much heat damaging the reed's temper, the distribution (shape) of the solder might affect response and tone.

 

This is a method that can be undone, true?

If the doing and the undoing are both done properly.

 

Also is there a propensity for reeds re pitched with solder to buzz?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not in my experience. I have a number of reeds with weighted tips in various concertinas, and none of them buzz.

 

I know of someone who has a G/C wheatstone, but would like to have a G/D.  I heard a well known concertina player/instructor, who visits the USA every summer,  tell this person use the solder method to repitch his C-row to a D-row.

 

Huh?!! Going from C to D is raising the pitch, not lowering it.

 

What is attractive about using solder is that the reed can be returned to its original state simply by removing the solder.

Can be done, but I would not use the word "simply" to describe it.

 

So, if you have an experienced repairer add solder and the reed buzzes, you can remove the solder and try again without harming the reed.

By using the word "you", it sounds like you're saying that if the experienced repairer's job is less than perfect, then any old joe can fix it. You don't really mean that, do you?

 

If you have a G/C concertina repitched to a G/D using solder, with very little work you can restore it to a G/C at a later date. On the other hand, if you file a reed to repitch it, you will never be able to restore the metal that you file off.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I agree about not being able to replace filed-off metal, but I'll repeat that adding solder doesn't work for converting a C-row to a D-row.

[twisper]

Hello

 

Is the use of solder a practical way to lower the pitch of a good quality reed ...................................

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Just out of curiousity, could not a chunk of weighty material (brass, steel etc.) be fashioned and added to the reed tip by means of careful surface prep and a high tech adhesive such as one of the super-glues? That way, you would apply no potentially damaging heat to a good reed. All tuning operations could be performed on the prosthetic 'chunk', and if you regretted the arrangement, the reed could be restored by removal of the appendage via acetone or some other solvent. Could the adhesive maintain its hold throughout the vibration of the reed? ?????...........................................................Forrest

[Henk van Aalten]

I know of someone who has a G/C wheatstone, but would like to have a G/D.  I heard a well known concertina player/instructor, who visits the USA every summer,  tell this person use the solder method to repitch his C-row to a D-row.

 

Huh?!! Going from C to D is raising the pitch, not lowering it.

 

Jim

As far as I know there are also D's below a given C.

I think Mr. Bellows means that a G/C is retuned to a D/G by adding weight. In that case the original C row is lowered to a G row and the original G row is lowered to a D row.

The thing that might be confusing is that "G/C" and "C/G" are both used to describe an Anglo concertina with an inner row (the first row from the players point of view) tuned in G and the middle row (or outer row for a 20 button) tuned in C.

[Henk van Aalten]

Just out of curiousity, could not a chunk of weighty material (brass, steel etc.) be fashioned and added to the reed tip by means of careful surface prep and a high tech adhesive such as one of the super-glues? That way, you would apply no potentially damaging heat to a good reed. All tuning operations could be performed on the prosthetic 'chunk', and if you regretted the arrangement, the reed could be restored by removal of the appendage via acetone or some other solvent. Could the adhesive maintain its hold throughout the vibration of the reed? ?????...........................................................Forrest

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Forrest

 

Knowing that a lot of big airplane parts are nowadays glued together, I am almost sure that high-tech glues can resist a lot of vibrations. An endurance-test (for instance intermittant vibrating for at least a month) could give interesting result.

Maybe an idea for the builders?

[richard]

Hello

 

Let me be more specific. I would like to change on a Bb/F Jeffries, the first button on the F row(pull), the (I think) middle C to a low G, as it would be on a Wheatstone system.

 

Perhaps this is too much?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

[twisper]

Hello

 

Let me be more specific. I would like to change on a Bb/F  Jeffries, the first button on the F row(pull), the (I think) middle C to a low G, as it would be on a Wheatstone system.

 

Perhaps this is too much?

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you are only interested in changing pitch on a couple of reeds, especially on something as valuable as a Jeffries, why not remove the original reeds in question (frames and all, of course) and keep them safe, and find some replacement parts to tinker with? One of the C.Net's sponsors, Concertina Connection, sells parts. Or maybe Chris Algar or one of the other repairers could fix you up. That way, you don't jeopardize the value of your Jeffries. I assume you don't intend to re-pitch the entire instrument?.....................F

[Stephen Chambers]

The thing that might be confusing is that  "G/C" and "C/G" are both used to describe an Anglo concertina with an inner row (the first row from the players point of view) tuned in G and the middle row (or outer row for a 20 button) tuned in C.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Henk,

 

They certainly shouldn't both be used to describe an Anglo. The convention is always to start with the lowest row, so an Anglo is always a C/G, or a G/D, etc. (the two rows being a fifth apart), whilst a button accordion is a G/C, or a D/G, etc. (the two rows being a fourth apart).

[Stephen Chambers]

Let me be more specific.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Richard,

 

That's always a good idea when asking a technical question.

 

I would like to change on a Bb/F  Jeffries, the first button on the F row(pull), the (I think) middle C to a low G, as it would be on a Wheatstone system

 

Perhaps this is too much?.

No, it's a common alteration, especially for Irish-style players. I have carried it out on many of the Jeffries I have tuned. A lump of solder, carefully applied and shaped, accomplishes it simply and adequately.

[Stephen Chambers]

I know of someone who has a G/C wheatstone, but would like to have a G/D.  I heard a well known concertina player/instructor, who visits the USA every summer,  tell this person use the solder method to repitch his C-row to a D-row.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would only recommend using solder on bass reeds, though even then, a compatible longer reed might be considered preferable. The weighted, shorter reed tends to have both a deader tone and a slower response.

 

By the way, presumably you mean that this person has a C/G concertina, which they would like to convert to a G/D ? In which case the C row would be tuned down to (low) G, and the (high) G row down to D, neither of which would prove satisfactory.

 

Or maybe it is a D/A they need ?

[JimLucas]

The convention is always to start with the lowest row, so an Anglo is always a C/G, or a G/D, etc. (the two rows being a fifth apart), whilst a button accordion is a G/C, or a D/G, etc. (the two rows being a fourth apart).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know of someone who has a G/C wheatstone, but would like to have a G/D.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

By the way, presumably you mean that this person has a C/G concertina, which they would like to convert to a G/D ? In which case the C row would be tuned down to (low) G, and the (high) G row down to D, neither of which would prove satisfactory.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

My own guess was that Mr. Bellows had his row designations reversed, and meant converting a C/G to a D/G, like Dave Weinstein's. He was very specific about converting only one row, the C row, and I would presume that the "well known concertina player/instructor" (who, besides NH?) has enough experience to know that lowering an entire instrument by a fourth (from C/G to G/D) -- even by solder, rather than a file -- would be neither feasible nor effective. Then again, I would expect him to also know that converting from C to D is raising the pitch, which can't be accomplished by solder. Certainly, lowering the C row by a 7th wouldn't work, but would produce a very strange instrument if it could.

 

So I'll ask what I should have asked before: Mr. Bellows, just what did you mean?

[Henk van Aalten]

The convention is always to start with the lowest row, so an Anglo is always a C/G, or a G/D, etc. (the two rows being a fifth apart), whilst a button accordion is a G/C, or a D/G, etc. (the two rows being a fourth apart).

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Steven

When I wrote my previous contribution I was wondering if there is any naming convention. Now I know!

Thanks

[Stephen Chambers]

My own guess was that Mr. Bellows had his row designations reversed, and meant converting a C/G to a D/G, like Dave Weinstein's.  He was very specific about converting only one row, the C row ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah, I didn't know that Dave had such an unusual system, I bet that confuses other players when they pick it up !

[Mr. Bellows]

My own guess was that Mr. Bellows had his row designations reversed, and meant converting a C/G to a D/G, like Dave Weinstein's.  He was very specific about converting only one row, the C row, and I would presume that the "well known concertina player/instructor" (who, besides NH?) has enough experience to know that lowering an entire instrument by a fourth (from C/G to G/D) -- even by solder, rather than a file -- would be neither feasible nor effective.  Then again, I would expect him to also know that converting from C to D is raising the pitch, which can't be accomplished by solder.  Certainly, lowering the C row by a 7th wouldn't work, but would produce a very strange instrument if it could.

 

So I'll ask what I should have asked before:  Mr. Bellows, just what did you mean?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, thanks for catching the mistake. Must have been some other configuration. But, the fact is that the person referenced was talking about re-pitching the entire instrument using solder to weight the tips. If it wasn't G/D, it was some other configuration that is feasible. That is all. Sorry to cause you alarm.

Edited May 31, 2005 by Mr. Bellows

[Stephen Chambers]

... the fact is that the person referenced was talking about re-pitching the entire instrument using solder to weight the tips.  If it wasn't G/D, it was some other configuration that is feasible. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, as I've already said, I would only use solder on the odd bass reed, I wouldn't recommend attempting any conversion of an entire instrument by using it.